France starts ban on full-face veil

[Cloakedvessel]

[MENTION=28941]
@Cloakedvessel All I am saying is EU either should change its constitution and say they are NOT TOLERANT and THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREEDOM for others (immigrants or other religions) EXCEPT that for those who belong to a certain classification such as a mocking cartoonist....OR stick WITH WHAT SECULAR DEMOCRAT actually means!

EU has very little say on this French national matter.

Your whole tirade is based on the redefining of the words democracy and secularism to your own needs. Interjecting the concept of tolerance here is also very shallow.
Tolerance does not mean you you have to throw away your political institutions and philosophy just to please a certain group that wants a preferential treatment. The fact that Muslims can come to France and live in relative peace is a testimony of French commitment to diversity and tolerance.
What makes you think that the French would want to adopt inherently flawed doctrines or would be impressed by stone age attitude that some Muslims display?
Why should the French people give up the liberties their forefathers died to sanctify?
It wasn't easy separating religion and state in the first round. And now you think they should just give that up because a minority within a minority wants a special treatment?

 

[anonymus]

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[Raja.Pakistani]

You guys tend to define the issue in your own terms which have nothing to do with reality.

First of all, they have a different culture. In their culture women are not looked at as having some sort of mysterious powers, such that merely looking at her face or even ankles will make the men raving madmen.

In your own culture, open discourse and friendship between the sexes is impossible, not in the culture you chose to emigrate to.

The others actually feel that it is in Muslim culture that the women are treated as commodities, with no free will, as "naqisul aqal" and it is all apparently sanctioned by the divine.

You need to open your mind to the culture you have chosen to move to.

Not expect them to adapt to yours. If you like it so much, you can make a decision to move back.

Do you even know what you are talking about? It seem you are so blind in love for Islam/Muslim and bringing all this irrelevant points in here. If you really appreciate this act of France then why don't implement it in India? One one side you are appreciating/defending this act of France and one other side you tell us you that India is incredible and mahaan because it give Muslim women right/freedom of wearing veil

Who is asking french women/men to adopt veil or Islam or Arab/afghan culture? People are demanding this right for themselves not for others and they are not asking others to adopt their ways of life. How you guys define French culture? Do France have one culture and ways of life? French with Algerian/latin origin share same culture as those of white french? What about those native french who converted into Islam? How french culture differ to British culture?

I am sure if this discussion was about banning sari, holi/Diwali or any Indian dress or culural practice which also has nothing to do with french culture then you Indians would have different tone and reasoning. You are giving fatwa about us as if Indian man enjoy watching friendship of their daughter/sister with opposite gender or let them sleep with their bfs. Eastern society/countries are bit conservative compare to western no matter where they live and no matter whether they follow Hinduism/Sikhism/buddism/catholic beliefs

People are not the property of governments and governments should not dictate how they should live. It is possible to be British/french yet have a distinct style of life at the same time. I dont see any problem in Britain because of multiculturalism where different people have kept their distinct culture/life style which include Indians as well who celebrate different cultural practices on street with pride and carry on fire works. According to your logic they all should give up their identity/culture. Indian girls should start wearing jeans and mini skirts instead of salwar kameez or sari . People like Sarzoki should ask sikh that they should get rid of turbun and beard because all they see on their face is hairs of beard/moustache

 

[Vinod2070]

Not going to repeat what I have already mentioned in this thread.

Just some points.

Do you even know what you are talking about? It seem you are so blind in love for Islam/Muslim and bringing all this irrelevant points in here. If you really appreciate this act of France then why don't implement it in India? One one side you are appreciating/defending this act of France and one other side you tell us you that India is incredible and mahaan because it give Muslim women right/freedom of wearing veil

No. It is incredible and mahaan due to it's great civilization heritage and religious tolerance. Not necessarily due to what you may choose to decide.

In India, the vote bank politics stops many good things from being done, including the uniform civil code which is enshrined in the constitution. So let's not get there.

Who is asking french women/men to adopt veil or Islam or Arab/afghan culture? People are demanding this right for themselves not for others and they are not asking others to adopt their ways of life. How you guys define French culture? Do France have one culture and ways of life? French with Algerian/latin origin share same culture as those of white french? What about those native french who converted into Islam? How french culture differ to British culture?

May be they have seen what is happening in UK with the Shariah demands and all. May be they don't want that in France.

I don't know.

I am sure if this discussion was about banning sari, holi/Diwali or any Indian dress or culural practice which also has nothing to do with french culture then you Indians would have different tone and reasoning. You are giving fatwa about us as if Indian man enjoy watching friendship of their daughter/sister with opposite gender or let them sleep with their bfs. Eastern society/countries are bit conservative compare to western no matter where they live and no matter whether they follow Hinduism/Sikhism/buddism/catholic beliefs

They are not banning your namaaz or mosques. Just something that they feel is incompatible with their values.

You are overreacting.

People are not the property of governments and governments should not dictate how they should live. It is possible to be British/french yet have a distinct style of life at the same time. I dont see any problem in Britain because of multiculturalism where different people have kept their distinct culture/life style which include Indians as well who celebrate different cultural practices on street with pride and carry on fire works. According to your logic they all should give up their identity/culture. Indian girls should start wearing jeans and mini skirts instead of salwar kameez or sari . People like Sarzoki should ask sikh that they should get rid of turbun and beard because all they see on their face is hairs of beard/moustache

No. You are misinterpreting (deliberately?) what I am saying.

In UK, some of you are already enforcing Shariah on locals already, abusing the Pope, their army etc. You may not "see any problem in Britain", many locals are definitely seeing a big problem with these Shariah demands, the immigrants who live on welfare and then turn on the host society like parasites. Look at the number of Pakistani Muslims who are trying to exploit the local girls.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

May be they have seen what is happening in UK with the Shariah demands and all. May be they don't want that in France.


They are not banning your namaaz or mosques. Just something that they feel is incompatible with their values.

In UK, some of you are already enforcing Shariah on locals already, abusing the Pope, their army etc. You may not "see any problem in Britain", many locals are definitely seeing a big problem with these Shariah demands, the immigrants who live on welfare and then turn on the host society like parasites. Look at the number of Pakistani Muslims who are trying to exploit the local girls.

Now you are showing height of stupidity and ignorance with this fake video of some street thugs with background noises where even location is not clear . If 5 or 6 random guys shouting sharia sharia on streets of London would have implement sharia in there then we would have seen sharia in each European/African country because such few people exist in each country. We don't even see sharia in Pakistan/Afghanistan let alone UK. Pakistani public never elected any religious party in any general election and they were never in any Government

This video and your naive approach is total BS. Its you who is overreacting. I am living in UK yea we saw 10 or less British Muslim in newspaper the sun, daily star who were gathered at one place and shouted sharia sharia but it was just empty noise nothing else. This demand was not reasonable considering the Muslim population of UK and also many things of sharia are already in there systems

can they ask for this demand? sure they can because its not illegal .You can even demand communism for UK but would you get it? no unless you get involved in decision/policy making and get the public support/vote

Another ignorance that immigrants are living on welfare. You cannot claim benefits in UK if you are immigrants and secondly if american can oppose bush or his war monger policies and even ex US marine speak against war crimes of bush and Blair then why not British nationals irrespective of their origin? Its their constitutional rights even if it give you pain and frustration and no Government is angel that people cannot criticize their policies/decisions

 

[Vinod2070]

Now you are showing height of stupidity and ignorance with this fake video of some street thugs with background noises where even location is not clear . If 5 or 6 random guys shouting sharia sharia on streets of London would have implement sharia in there then we would have seen sharia in each European/African country because such few people exist in each country. We don't even see sharia in Pakistan/Afghanistan let alone UK. Pakistani public never elected any religious party in any general election and they were never in any Government

This video and your naive approach is total BS. Its you who is overreacting. I am living in UK yea we saw 10 or less British Muslim in newspaper the sun, daily star who were gathered at one place and shouted sharia sharia but it was just empty noise nothing else. This demand was not reasonable considering the Muslim population of UK and also many things of sharia are already in there systems

can they ask for this demand? sure they can because its not illegal .You can even demand communism for UK but would you get it? no unless you get involved in decision/policy making and get the public support/vote

Another ignorance that immigrants are living on welfare. You cannot claim benefits in UK if you are immigrants and secondly if american can oppose bush or his war monger policies and even ex US marine speak against war crimes of bush and Blair then why not British nationals irrespective of their origin? Its their constitutional rights even if it give you pain and frustration and no Government is angel that people cannot criticize their policies/decisions

If you can't go beyond personal attacks, it is your choice. Just shows your reality.

Let me repeat:

It is clear that you don't give a damn that Muslim countries are so oppressive towards their minorities and even Muslim sects.

All you are interested in is in making ever increasing demands on those who have given you more than you could ever get in your own country or in any Islamic country.

This hypocrisy will fly less and less with time. You will need to see the writing on the wall.

 

[Audio]

Another ignorance that immigrants are living on welfare. You cannot claim benefits in UK if you are immigrants

If you have Refugee Status or Exceptional Leave or Humanitarian Protection or Discretionary Leave in the UK you can claim all welfare benefits, subject to the ‘ordinary’ rules, and you cannot be refused any benefit on the basis of your immigration status.

Welfare benefits

UK was seventh worldwide, having received 25,500 in 2011.

Asylum-seekers around the world: where did they come from and where are they going? | News | guardian.co.uk

At least 25.500 immigrants eligible for welfare, making you a someone that does not know what he is talking about. Here's some more reading material:

LONDON--U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron will signal a tougher stance on immigration Monday with measures to restrict foreigners' access to state support for unemployment, housing and health which aim to help cut net migration to the tens of thousands a year by 2015.

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/uk-to-clamp-down-on-immigrants-welfare-benefits-20130324-00030#ixzz2PxpEtxPq

My personal opinion is that while you present decent arguments, they can fly only to the crowd gathering at park benches smoking weed. Which i did too and it might have worked on me as well, but that was a long, long time ago.

 

[fallstuff]

This guys got every freaking right they have under the constitution to voice their opinion about what they want. Haters are gonna hate. Who gives a rats behind about that.

Its a matter of administrative and/or legislative and/or judicial concern in Germany. If you care about what the hating idiot is bad mouthing about, you are not gonna get anything done in this world.

 

[JohnSeb]

Sick. so much for their human rights, liberty and freedom. they are happy with their sisters and daughters going around naked. Proof enough that they not only have no moral values, they don't even have any respect for personal freedom. This is the outcome when the whole society is born out of wedlock. Bastards have no respect for anyone.

Then they shouldn't have gone to live in a country where there are no moral values, could have chosen Saudi Arabia instead, lot of moral values there...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

their country!
their laws!

that's all folks

 

[fallstuff]

their country!
their laws!

that's all folks

Amen my brother !!!

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Welfare benefits



Asylum-seekers around the world: where did they come from and where are they going? | News | guardian.co.uk

At least 25.500 immigrants eligible for welfare, making you a someone that does not know what he is talking about. Here's some more reading material:



Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/uk-to-clamp-down-on-immigrants-welfare-benefits-20130324-00030#ixzz2PxpEtxPq

My personal opinion is that while you present decent arguments, they can fly only to the crowd gathering at park benches smoking weed. Which i did too and it might have worked on me as well, but that was a long, long time ago.

You better have some research.There are different types of Visa for immigrants for example people on student visa, work visa, visitors, spouse visa or any others visa holders etc They cannot apply for benefits until they have indefinite leave or hold British nationality . It is clearly marked on their visa that " No resource to public funds" The only exception are refugees and asylum seekers who have granted asylum on humanitarian grounds or hold discretionary Leave.

Its not easy to go and get benefits even if you hold British nationality. You have to prove that you are not able to find a job and have applied at many places and still cannot get a job. You are are trying to teach someone who has been working in this department for two years

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Let me repeat:

It is clear that you don't give a damn that Muslim countries are so oppressive towards their minorities and even Muslim sects.

All you are interested in is in making ever increasing demands on those who have given you more than you could ever get in your own country or in any Islamic country.

Let me Repeat

Indians always try to become the spokesperson of these countries when these countries don't give a **** about them and you never stop entertaining us with your stupid comments and generalization . I never met a single Pakistani who support oppression/intolerance or terrorism going on in Pakistani society. There is no cure of negativity exist in minds of Indians for Pakistan/Islam/Muslims and trust me i cannot do anything for people like you who prefer to be blind and deaf

Another habit of Indians is that they try to compare apple with orange. How sane is to compare theocracy with secularism? We are discussing the western countries and their secular principles which differ to saudia Arabia or Iran and even to India in great extent. If UK or France would be christian republic of England/French then it might make sense to have comparison