France starts ban on full-face veil

[Dillinger]

@Talon I have not followed this thread so please forgive me if this question has been answered before.

If certain countries can ban bikinis for women, then why can't other countries ban facial veils for women too?

Different definitions of whats acceptable and whats not, that's about it. Countries adjudicate on these matters based on the sentimentality they hold dear- France doesn't like it- their prerogative. Just as much as it is KSA's prerogative to disallow the public practice of any religion other than Islam.

 

[Dubious]

@Talon I have not followed this thread so please forgive me if this question has been answered before.

If certain countries can ban bikinis for women, then why can't other countries ban facial veils for women too?

@Argus Panoptes then forgive me for asking...Would you allow your wife or sister to use a bikini? Yes or no? If no, why do you want to see another's sister or wife in one? Is you sister some angel that deserves "special" respect while other girls do not?

Again If you say yes, then go ahead let your wife and sister use what they want...but hear me out, there is something known as moral....and morally it is wrong to wear a bikini around EVERYWHERE....otherwise why are "naughty" stuff or channels allowed in UK only AFTER 10pm (or so I was told) why not when kids are still awake? I could give more examples of things you know but am sorry am not used to talking about such crap...

Not really. Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, France, UK. Sweden all have significant issues.

The crime rate (especially the worst, most immoral and violent crimes, rapes, targeting the local women etc.) among Muslims is very high, much higher than any other community.

There are several no go areas.

@Vinod2070 exactly WHAT are Western VALUES?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@Argus Panoptes then forgive me for asking...Would you allow your wife or sister to use a bikini? Yes or no? If no, why do you want to see another's sister or wife in one? Is you sister some angel that deserves "special" respect while other girls do not?

Again If you say yes, then go ahead let your wife and sister use what they want...but hear me out, there is something known as moral....and morally it is wrong to wear a bikini around EVERYWHERE....otherwise why are "naughty" stuff or channels allowed in UK only AFTER 10pm (or so I was told) why not when kids are still awake? I could give more examples of things you know but am sorry am not used to talking about such crap...

@Talon, Agreed, but who gets to define what these morals are? Who or what entity has the right to define these morals for everybody? Religion? The State? Or is it individually? And how can these morals be the same across countries and continents given the wide range of beliefs?

 

[Dubious]

@Vinod2070 Muslim extremism ....interesting...For her covering up is extremism...for me her not covering up is extremism...do not give me point of views..

 

[Alpha1]

@Argus Panoptes then forgive me for asking...Would you allow your wife or sister to use a bikini? Yes or no? If no, why do you want to see another's sister or wife in one? Is you sister some angel that deserves "special" respect while other girls do not?

Again If you say yes, then go ahead let your wife and sister use what they want...but hear me out, there is something known as moral....and morally it is wrong to wear a bikini around EVERYWHERE....otherwise why are "naughty" stuff or channels allowed in UK only AFTER 10pm (or so I was told) why not when kids are still awake? I could give more examples of things you know but am sorry am not used to talking about such crap...

thats a question that shuts everyone up

@Vinod2070 exactly WHAT are Western VALUES?

NOTHING

 

[Dubious]

@Talon, Agreed, but who gets to define what these morals are? Who or what entity has the right to define these morals for everybody? Religion? The State? Or is it individually? And how can these morals be the same across countries and continents given the wide range of beliefs?

@Argus Panoptes I would say the one who created us...But I know the reply would be because you are Muslim...Even in the bible, women are encouraged to cover up same goes for Judaism and Hinduism...I believe if deity of soo many is saying, there has to be some reason....After all who better knows the human than the one who created us...

As for the West, the question goes, You guys call yourself DEMOCRATIC and then say YOU HAVE freedom...What sort of freedom is that when you start dictating how a religion is supposed to be practiced? Why are you trying to play GOD...

If I used this same freedom to demonstrate holocaust many would go RADICAL! But it is fine to abuse other's freedom of religion...

I do not have a prob banning niqaab...but I have a prob West calling us backwards while doing exactly the something under the name of FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY!

If this is freedom and democracy....well the East achieved it way before the West realized!

Now, the only prob the West is facing is the increase in Muslims and are calling it RADICAL coz they do not understand it NOR are TRYING to....instead they are oppressing it....


Humans are like a spring...the more you oppress, the harder they bounce back

 

[Vinod2070]

@Vinod2070 exactly WHAT are Western VALUES?

In this context it can be summarized as secularism, democracy, freedom of conscience of the individual, liberty, freedom of thought etc.

@Vinod2070 Muslim extremism ....interesting...For her covering up is extremism...for me her not covering up is extremism...do not give me point of views..

This is a very simplistic way of looking at it.

For them, it was a symbol of oppression of women.

You can't deny that millions of women are forced into these all enveloping dresses (some from ages as less as 8-10 years, I have seen it in my own city) than the 300 odd women who have been impacted by this order.

None of you seem to take an offense on that? Suddenly this becomes the biggest issue, not what happens all over the Islamic world?

They have their cultural values that they want to protect. I think they have a right to do that.

 

[Dubious]

Different definitions of whats acceptable and whats not, that's about it. Countries adjudicate on these matters based on the sentimentality they hold dear- France doesn't like it- their prerogative. Just as much as it is KSA's prerogative to disallow the public practice of any religion other than Islam.

@Dillinger Well, if the West jumps at what KSA is doing....then why are they following their footpaths?

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger with freedom comes responsibilities...I do not support the stabbing like i do not support the making of such cartoons...Holocaust is a taboo topic yet it is alright to make fun of ANYOTHER religion? What double standards?

Making fun of the holocaust is not making fun of a religion but rather making fun of the death of a few million people. On the other hand making fun of the prophet does not attempt to make a jest out of people's death, or does it? Your or anyone else's religion is not so important that people will not jest about it, human life on the other hand is important and cannot be taken for insults. You have your own societal rules, you've got groups for Sharia for UK and characters like Anjem Chaudary:-

Here's a nice, in context, and unedited quote of his :-

"Look, at the end of the day innocent people—when we say 'innocent people' we mean Muslims—as far as non-Muslims are concerned they have not accepted Islam and as far as we are concerned that is a crime against God."

Anjem Choudary, BBC :- When asked why he would not condemn the 7 July bombings , http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/4135160.stm

In such circumstances obviously you'll have a backlash.

 

[Dubious]

In this context it can be summarized as secularism, democracy, freedom of conscience of the individual, liberty, freedom of thought etc.

@Vinod2070 define each....secularism, democracy....define each and I will reply you on each...

This is a very simplistic way of looking at it.

For them, it was a symbol of oppression of women.[/QUOTE] Yet it is women who cover up if raped, harassed and abused? Why dont they continue being WESTERN if it is natural or their CULTURE? Because it is not natural...learn women psychology and you will know ALOT!!

You can't deny that millions of women are forced into these all enveloping dresses (some from ages as less as 8-10 years, I have seen it in my own city) than the 300 odd women who have been impacted by this order.

None of you seem to take an offense on that? Suddenly this becomes the biggest issue, not what happens all over the Islamic world?

They have their cultural values that they want to protect. I think they have a right to do that.

@Vinod2070 I do not support oppressed people...EVERYONE voices out that Muslim women are oppressed into these "enveloping dresses" then why is it that the same cry babies are oppressing women out of clothes? That is a different kind of oppression yet still an oppression...

 

[I-LEK]

radical "muslim" - Islamists! horror, the savages, the fanatics, the Wahhabis and other Islamists!

niqab - the evil and Islamism!

do not like Europe (West)? - Fails (bring down) - radicals back home!

You shame - my Islam!

features - the radical Islamists - evil!

 

[Dubious]

Making fun of the holocaust is not making fun of a religion but rather making fun of the death of a few million people. On the other hand making fun of the prophet does not attempt to make a jest out of people's death, or does it? Your or anyone else's religion is not so important that people will not jest about it, human life on the other hand is important and cannot be taken for insults. You have your own societal rules, you've got groups for Sharia for UK and characters like Anjem Chaudary:-

Here's a nice, in context, and unedited quote of his :-



In such circumstances obviously you'll have a backlash.

@Dillinger okk.....do you love your mom? If you do, say I make fun of her...not once, but repeatedly, does your blood boil? Why should it...mind you I have seen people fight over bad mouthing about moms...this is a Prophet, whom we honor more than our mom....

I dont expect you to understand....we even respect Jesus and Moses and cant bad mouth or make cartoons of them because we are not allowed...

I admit killing was wrong...but have you not seen people kill because someone bad mouthed someone's mom or sis?

Have you not heard of anger when someone's sis or known friend is raped? I mean even whole of India cried for the Delhi rape cases...How many people got angry about it? Well, she was not even someone you knew....


Well, we are talking about A prophet whom we hold dear to us...Obviously a WHOLE UMMAH (Nation) sheds tears for this....

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

In this context it can be summarized as secularism, democracy, freedom of conscience of the individual, liberty, freedom of thought etc.



This is a very simplistic way of looking at it.

For them, it was a symbol of oppression of women.

You can't deny that millions of women are forced into these all enveloping dresses (some from ages as less as 8-10 years, I have seen it in my own city) than the 300 odd women who have been impacted by this order.

None of you seem to take an offense on that? Suddenly this becomes the biggest issue, not what happens all over the Islamic world?

They have their cultural values that they want to protect. I think they have a right to do that.

what do you say about head scarf ban and ban on other religious symbols ?

 

[Dubious]

As for making fun of holocaust is making fun of Jews, like their well known long noses, how their fingers were measured, how their facial features were scrutinized....and many more THEY are a race ....

1st learn about the honor and WHAT we consider the Prophet as...then go there...

 

[Vinod2070]

@Vinod2070 define each....secularism, democracy....define each and I will reply you on each...

You can look up any dictionary and oblige.

Yet it is women who cover up if raped, harassed and abused? Why dont they continue being WESTERN if it is natural or their CULTURE? Because it is not natural...learn women psychology and you will know ALOT!!

OK. I will try.

@Vinod2070 I do not support oppressed people...EVERYONE voices out that Muslim women are oppressed into these "enveloping dresses" then why is it that the same cry babies are oppressing women out of clothes? That is a different kind of oppression yet still an oppression...

Not really. That is a very unreasonable interpretation.

You can have modest and inconspicuous clothing still. Burqa and niqab actually stand out more, which goes against the basic idea anyways.