Fortress India

[Md Akmal]

Inshallah hum hain na. we are there Inshallah. the only thing we need to understand that outsiders had been taking advantage of our small difference among our family members and these outsiders have been picthing brothers against brothers so now its time we start realising that.

join hands. Above all Our BD brothers have a very very very important strategic position so forhaven's sake try to realise that and use it .
its others who should be kneeling in front of BD not otherwise

@ The question of massive illegal immigration of Bangladeshi Muslims into India’s West Bengal and northeast states to alter the religious demography in the region is fabricated and seems to be arising out of the Muslim-mania of the Brahminist rulers of India. The fact is that the Muslims were in the majority in the undivided Bengal and Assam states prior to the partition of British India in 1947. Since only the Sylhet district of Assam was awarded to East Pakistan in 1947 (Bangladesh since 1971), it is only natural that the rest of Assam province (subsequently reconstituted into six ethnic states) and West Bengal would contain large Muslim populations. But to say that these large numbers of Muslims have emigrated from Bangladesh to these states is a travesty of truth.

@ It is a fact that tens of thousands of Bangladeshis have gone abroad (both legally and illegally) to settle in Britain, USA, Canada, etc, or in search of temporary work in the Middle East and Far East (as the Indians have done over the several decades), but this happened mainly because of improved living conditions and job opportunities or better income in those countries. But why should Bangladeshi Muslims go to live permanently in West Bengal or in the northeast states of India, where the economic conditions are worse off than in Bangladesh? To understand this point, one simply has to visit the rural areas of both sides of the border. Common people in West Bengal, Assam and many other states of India are worse off than the common people in Bangladesh.

@ It is true that many Bangladeshi people (both Hindus and Muslims) go to India for improved medical treatment, education, family visits or simply as tourists, but they return home after their intended stay in India. There may be few people (mostly Hindus) who find work in India and prefer to live there for economic and cultural reasons, but the Bangladeshi Muslims (especially the poor) face serious discrimination and hostility. Even the educated Bangladeshi Muslims would never find any suitable employment in India. In contrast, a large number of Indians work with better salary in Bangladesh and live there with respect and dignity. There is hardly any discrimination against them. According to one estimate, more than one hundred thousand foreigners (mostly Indians) work in Dhaka and Chittagong without any work permit. Thousands of Indians have also managed to procure false documentations and Bangladeshi identities. Bangladesh government does not have the resources to track down all these illegal workers in the country. Common people are also very tolerant about their presence.

@ The question of Islamist terrorism being exported from Bangladesh to India is of more serious nature but this is equally unfounded and politically motivated. It is true that Bangladesh is facing a security problem from some terrorist outfits, which claim to work for establishing Islamic rule in Bangladesh. But this threat targets Bangladesh, not India, and it is generally appreciated that the people and security agencies of Bangladesh are working very hard to eliminate this threat. Moreover, this phenomenon is of relatively recent origin, whilst the barbed wire fence had been conceived in Delhi long before the Islamist terrorism became visible in Bangladesh. So this issue may not be a true reason for the barbed wire fence.

 

[footmarks]

@ The question of massive illegal immigration of Bangladeshi Muslims into India’s West Bengal and northeast states to alter the religious demography in the region is fabricated and seems to be arising out of the Muslim-mania of the Brahminist rulers of India. The fact is that the Muslims were in the majority in the undivided Bengal and Assam states prior to the partition of British India in 1947. Since only the Sylhet district of Assam was awarded to East Pakistan in 1947 (Bangladesh since 1971), it is only natural that the rest of Assam province (subsequently reconstituted into six ethnic states) and West Bengal would contain large Muslim populations. But to say that these large numbers of Muslims have emigrated from Bangladesh to these states is a travesty of truth.

@ It is a fact that tens of thousands of Bangladeshis have gone abroad (both legally and illegally) to settle in Britain, USA, Canada, etc, or in search of temporary work in the Middle East and Far East (as the Indians have done over the several decades), but this happened mainly because of improved living conditions and job opportunities or better income in those countries. But why should Bangladeshi Muslims go to live permanently in West Bengal or in the northeast states of India, where the economic conditions are worse off than in Bangladesh? To understand this point, one simply has to visit the rural areas of both sides of the border. Common people in West Bengal, Assam and many other states of India are worse off than the common people in Bangladesh.

@ It is true that many Bangladeshi people (both Hindus and Muslims) go to India for improved medical treatment, education, family visits or simply as tourists, but they return home after their intended stay in India. There may be few people (mostly Hindus) who find work in India and prefer to live there for economic and cultural reasons, but the Bangladeshi Muslims (especially the poor) face serious discrimination and hostility. Even the educated Bangladeshi Muslims would never find any suitable employment in India. In contrast, a large number of Indians work with better salary in Bangladesh and live there with respect and dignity. There is hardly any discrimination against them. According to one estimate, more than one hundred thousand foreigners (mostly Indians) work in Dhaka and Chittagong without any work permit. Thousands of Indians have also managed to procure false documentations and Bangladeshi identities. Bangladesh government does not have the resources to track down all these illegal workers in the country. Common people are also very tolerant about their presence.

@ The question of Islamist terrorism being exported from Bangladesh to India is of more serious nature but this is equally unfounded and politically motivated. It is true that Bangladesh is facing a security problem from some terrorist outfits, which claim to work for establishing Islamic rule in Bangladesh. But this threat targets Bangladesh, not India, and it is generally appreciated that the people and security agencies of Bangladesh are working very hard to eliminate this threat. Moreover, this phenomenon is of relatively recent origin, whilst the barbed wire fence had been conceived in Delhi long before the Islamist terrorism became visible in Bangladesh. So this issue may not be a true reason for the barbed wire fence.

I dont understand why people bring religion in every Sh!t worth of issue they can find. Its this very same religiously polluted mentality that we dont want to enter inside Indian border. Sadly, fences cant stop such hatred based on religion. Still, a fence will not discriminate people based on their religion. Even a wall is better than this mentality.

 

[Md Akmal]

@ On more than one occasion, India has accused Bangladesh as a sponsor of anti-Indian insurgencies and conflicts in its northeast states including Assam, Nagaland, Mizoram and Tripura. It has made the accusations that the rebels from several groups are trained in 195 camps inside Bangladesh and that the Pakistani ISI is running these camps. For those unfamiliar with Indian internal national or ethnic revolts and insurgencies, there are few points to remember.

@ Like the well known insurgency in Kashmir, the civil unrests, ethnic conflicts and insurgencies have been going on in the northeast states of India for nearly 50 years. Many people would remember Dr. Phizo, who was a very prominent rebel leader of the Naga people and worked for the independence of Nagaland during 1950s and 1960s. At one stage, he had his headquarters in London. This shows that Indian problems in the northeast are not new; these are, in fact, legacy of the past.

@ The history, geography, ethnicity, religious beliefs, life-style and culture in these areas are different, in many ways, from the mainstream Hindu-dominated Indian society. The mainly tribal communities inhabiting these areas lived outside the folds of the main Indian empires (based in upper Ganges areas; both Hindu and Muslim) for hundreds of years. They were incorporated into the British Indian administration only during the second half of the 19th century. Large scale migration of both Hindu and Muslim peasants and workers from the plains of Bengal occurred during the British period due to the need for harnessing the region’s natural resources (oil, timber, tea, hydroelectricity, etc.). The educated outsiders formed the new ruling elite dominant in politics, business and administration. The original inhabitants (mainly mongoloid in racial origin, Buddhist or animist, many converted to Christianity by the missionaries) were marginalized and reduced in relative importance, but they always cherished to live in their own independent homelands or at least in some kind of fully autonomous political entities. And failing to achieve their aims by peaceful means, they took up arms against the Indian civil and military authorities.

@ There have been many ups and downs in their peaceful as well as armed struggles against the Central Indian government during the last half-century, but the struggles are continuing even today. At an earlier stage, the Christian churches and missionaries supported the struggles of these indigenous peoples, but in recent years there does not seem to be any support left for them. This is probably due to the fact the leaders of the international community find it more desirable to remain friendly with the Delhi administration rather than to show sympathy with these land-locked ethnic minorities in a distant corner of northeast India. Even the so-called defenders of universal human rights seem to be little concerned about the human miseries caused by the counter-insurgency operations in these regions. Not many in the outside world are aware of the fact that the unrest and wars in these regions have resulted in about 50,000 casualties to the Indian security forces, and local insurgents and civilians.

@ The main point to note here is that the anti-Indian movements and insurgencies in northeast regions follow a familiar pattern of resistance against domination, assimilation and integration of relatively smaller and weaker national and ethnic minorities by more powerful central authorities who have tried to solve the problem by strong counter-insurgency methods.

@ Blaming Bangladesh or another country for the unrest and bloodshed in the northeast is not correct. Although some insurgents may occasionally take shelter within Bangladesh territories (as they do in Nepal, Myanmar or Bhutan), they do so without the knowledge of the government. And it is totally wrong to say that Bangladesh is responsible for the problem. On the question of the Indian rebels training camps in Bangladesh, former Foreign Minister Morshed Khan (during BNP regime) and the BDR authorities have categorically denied the presence of any such camps in Bangladesh. Morshed Khan has also said that if the Indian government would provide details of the insurgent camps in Bangladesh, he would personally take Indian officials for spot inspections. Unfortunately, the Indian side has never taken up this challenge. The other related accusation that Bangladesh allows the Pakistani ISI agents to carry on anti-Indian activities by providing arms and logistics to the Indian rebels is also not based on fact. Pakistan involvement in the Kashmir insurgency is well known, but there is no solid evidence to suggest that it is using Bangladesh to help the ethnic insurgents in Indian Northeast States.

@@ In theory, India may do whatever it likes to do within its territories to protect its own national or security interests. But taking any unilateral step that infringes on the legitimate rights of its neighbours is not acceptable. The barbed wire fence conveys the horrific message that Bangladesh is a hostile country and that it is alone responsible for the so-called Muslim migration to India, cross border arms and drug smuggling, trafficking of women and children, and insurgencies in the north east states. This kind of disinformation campaign is contrary to India’ professed friendly policies to the Eastern Neighbour.

@ In one hand they have erected/constructed barbed wire and in another hand they want a good relation as well as want's a transit in the North -Eastern States through Bangladesh, what a funny ?

 

[footmarks]

@ On more than one occasion, India has accused Bangladesh as a sponsor of anti-Indian insurgencies and conflicts in its northeast states including Assam, Nagaland, Mizoram and Tripura. It has made the accusations that the rebels from several groups are trained in 195 camps inside Bangladesh and that the Pakistani ISI is running these camps. For those unfamiliar with Indian internal national or ethnic revolts and insurgencies, there are few points to remember.

@ Like the well known insurgency in Kashmir, the civil unrests, ethnic conflicts and insurgencies have been going on in the northeast states of India for nearly 50 years. Many people would remember Dr. Phizo, who was a very prominent rebel leader of the Naga people and worked for the independence of Nagaland during 1950s and 1960s. At one stage, he had his headquarters in London. This shows that Indian problems in the northeast are not new; these are, in fact, legacy of the past.

@ The history, geography, ethnicity, religious beliefs, life-style and culture in these areas are different, in many ways, from the mainstream Hindu-dominated Indian society. The mainly tribal communities inhabiting these areas lived outside the folds of the main Indian empires (based in upper Ganges areas; both Hindu and Muslim) for hundreds of years. They were incorporated into the British Indian administration only during the second half of the 19th century. Large scale migration of both Hindu and Muslim peasants and workers from the plains of Bengal occurred during the British period due to the need for harnessing the region’s natural resources (oil, timber, tea, hydroelectricity, etc.). The educated outsiders formed the new ruling elite dominant in politics, business and administration. The original inhabitants (mainly mongoloid in racial origin, Buddhist or animist, many converted to Christianity by the missionaries) were marginalized and reduced in relative importance, but they always cherished to live in their own independent homelands or at least in some kind of fully autonomous political entities. And failing to achieve their aims by peaceful means, they took up arms against the Indian civil and military authorities.

@ There have been many ups and downs in their peaceful as well as armed struggles against the Central Indian government during the last half-century, but the struggles are continuing even today. At an earlier stage, the Christian churches and missionaries supported the struggles of these indigenous peoples, but in recent years there does not seem to be any support left for them. This is probably due to the fact the leaders of the international community find it more desirable to remain friendly with the Delhi administration rather than to show sympathy with these land-locked ethnic minorities in a distant corner of northeast India. Even the so-called defenders of universal human rights seem to be little concerned about the human miseries caused by the counter-insurgency operations in these regions. Not many in the outside world are aware of the fact that the unrest and wars in these regions have resulted in about 50,000 casualties to the Indian security forces, and local insurgents and civilians.

@ The main point to note here is that the anti-Indian movements and insurgencies in northeast regions follow a familiar pattern of resistance against domination, assimilation and integration of relatively smaller and weaker national and ethnic minorities by more powerful central authorities who have tried to solve the problem by strong counter-insurgency methods.

@ Blaming Bangladesh or another country for the unrest and bloodshed in the northeast is not correct. Although some insurgents may occasionally take shelter within Bangladesh territories (as they do in Nepal, Myanmar or Bhutan), they do so without the knowledge of the government. And it is totally wrong to say that Bangladesh is responsible for the problem. On the question of the Indian rebels training camps in Bangladesh, former Foreign Minister Morshed Khan (during BNP regime) and the BDR authorities have categorically denied the presence of any such camps in Bangladesh. Morshed Khan has also said that if the Indian government would provide details of the insurgent camps in Bangladesh, he would personally take Indian officials for spot inspections. Unfortunately, the Indian side has never taken up this challenge. The other related accusation that Bangladesh allows the Pakistani ISI agents to carry on anti-Indian activities by providing arms and logistics to the Indian rebels is also not based on fact. Pakistan involvement in the Kashmir insurgency is well known, but there is no solid evidence to suggest that it is using Bangladesh to help the ethnic insurgents in Indian Northeast States.

@@ In theory, India may do whatever it likes to do within its territories to protect its own national or security interests. But taking any unilateral step that infringes on the legitimate rights of its neighbours is not acceptable. The barbed wire fence conveys the horrific message that Bangladesh is a hostile country and that it is alone responsible for the so-called Muslim migration to India, cross border arms and drug smuggling, trafficking of women and children, and insurgencies in the north east states. This kind of disinformation campaign is contrary to India’ professed friendly policies to the Eastern Neighbour.

@ In one hand they have erected/constructed barbed wire and in another hand they want a good relation as well as want's a transit in the North -Eastern States, what a funny ?

As for fencing, why do people make fences around their homes? Does that mean we dont have good relations with our neighbours? And we do expect neighbours to come through the gate and ring doorbell before entering, not barging in or sneeking in by climbing the walls, right?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Was the concentration camps of Nazi Germany military structures or civilian? Please read my comment carefully -

Lest I am misunderstand what you aimed in your rambling comment, could you clearly state if the Nazi concentration camp were military or civil structures.

To ensure that there is no ambiguity if it they were military structure state - Military.

If they were civil structure state - Civil.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

@ Donnot under-estimate Munshi, he can play hell with his "Doctrine of India".

One play hell with anything depending upon the fever that has afflicted the imagination.

There is a society that still claims that the Earth is Flat.

Try to convince them otherwise.

People also play merry hell with history.

There is an English adage that goes - the Devil can cite scriptures for his purpose!

Go figure, as they say in American English!

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Lest I am misunderstand what you aimed in your rambling comment, could you clearly state if the Nazi concentration camp were military or civil structures.

To ensure that there is no ambiguity if it they were military structure state - Military.

If they were civil structure state - Civil.

Then read my previous comments in the event of war with China. Quite logical deduction but it seems to escape your clearly inferior intelligence.

 

[xTra]

WTF, now we can't fence ourselves also.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I am sure if our GOV ran a fundraising for that fence,
people would whole heartedly donate money for that.
According to the last similar thread 4-5 of us
BD member even promised $100-$200.


Please finish off this fence as fast as you people can.

So kind of you sir.

If you were so generous, you could have donated this 'princely sum' to your Govt, so that they do not have to subsist on fund from foreign governments and organisations or accepting equipment on 'fiendship' prices.

It is obvious that you have no idea of engineering and costs.

But then, that is acceptable.

Brothers against sisters in this case.

On a serious note, whats very very very strategic about BD position?

Serious note is that some are burning because inspite of the warmth and love shown as the wolf in the Red Riding Hood story showed with all the we are Brothers mush, the Bnalgadeshis showed them their thenga and pushed off to make their own country.

@ On more than one occasion, India has accused Bangladesh as a sponsor of anti-Indian insurgencies and conflicts in

@ Like the well known insurgency in Kashmir, the civil unrests, ethnic conflicts and insurgencies have been going on in the northeast states of India for nearly 50 years. Many people would remember Dr. Phizo, who was a very prominent rebel leader of the Naga people and worked for the independence of Nagaland during 1950s and 1960s. At one stage, he had his headquarters in London. This shows that Indian problems in the northeast are not new; these are, in fact, legacy of the past.

@ The history, geography, ethnicity, religious beliefs, life-style and culture in these areas are different, in many ways, from the mainstream Hindu-dominated Indian society. The mainly tribal communities inhabiting these areas lived outside the folds of the main Indian empires (based in upper Ganges areas; both Hindu and Muslim) for hundreds of years. They were incorporated into the British Indian administration only during the second half of the 19th century. Large scale migration of both Hindu and Muslim peasants and workers from the plains of Bengal occurred during the British period due to the need for harnessing the region’s natural resources (oil, timber, tea, hydroelectricity, etc.). The educated outsiders formed the new ruling elite dominant in politics, business and administration. The original inhabitants (mainly mongoloid in racial origin, Buddhist or animist, many converted to Christianity by the missionaries) were marginalized and reduced in relative importance, but they always cherished to live in their own independent homelands or at least in some kind of fully autonomous political entities. And failing to achieve their aims by peaceful means, they took up arms against the Indian civil and military authorities.

@ There have been many ups and downs in their peaceful as well as armed struggles against the Central Indian government during the last half-century, but the struggles are continuing even today. At an earlier stage, the Christian churches and missionaries supported the struggles of these indigenous peoples, but in recent years there does not seem to be any support left for them. This is probably due to the fact the leaders of the international community find it more desirable to remain friendly with the Delhi administration rather than to show sympathy with these land-locked ethnic minorities in a distant corner of northeast India. Even the so-called defenders of universal human rights seem to be little concerned about the human miseries caused by the counter-insurgency operations in these regions. Not many in the outside world are aware of the fact that the unrest and wars in these regions have resulted in about 50,000 casualties to the Indian security forces, and local insurgents and civilians.

@ The main point to note here is that the anti-Indian movements and insurgencies in northeast regions follow a familiar pattern of resistance against domination, assimilation and integration of relatively smaller and weaker national and ethnic minorities by more powerful central authorities who have tried to solve the problem by strong counter-insurgency methods.

@ Blaming Bangladesh or another country for the unrest and bloodshed in the northeast is not correct. Although some insurgents may occasionally take shelter within Bangladesh territories (as they do in Nepal, Myanmar or Bhutan), they do so without the knowledge of the government. And it is totally wrong to say that Bangladesh is responsible for the problem. On the question of the Indian rebels training camps in Bangladesh, former Foreign Minister Morshed Khan (during BNP regime) and the BDR authorities have categorically denied the presence of any such camps in Bangladesh. Morshed Khan has also said that if the Indian government would provide details of the insurgent camps in Bangladesh, he would personally take Indian officials for spot inspections. Unfortunately, the Indian side has never taken up this challenge. The other related accusation that Bangladesh allows the Pakistani ISI agents to carry on anti-Indian activities by providing arms and logistics to the Indian rebels is also not based on fact. Pakistan involvement in the Kashmir insurgency is well known, but there is no solid evidence to suggest that it is using Bangladesh to help the ethnic insurgents in Indian Northeast States.

@@ In theory, India may do whatever it likes to do within its territories to protect its own national or security interests. But taking any unilateral step that infringes on the legitimate rights of its neighbours is not acceptable. The barbed wire fence conveys the horrific message that Bangladesh is a hostile country and that it is alone responsible for the so-called Muslim migration to India, cross border arms and drug smuggling, trafficking of women and children, and insurgencies in the north east states. This kind of disinformation campaign is contrary to India’ professed friendly policies to the Eastern Neighbour.

@ In one hand they have erected/constructed barbed wire and in another hand they want a good relation as well as want's a transit in the North -Eastern States through Bangladesh, what a funny ?

Not accusation, but fact.

Where are the Aribindo Rajkhwas and Paresh Barua's surfacing from?

And what was Koko and the 10 trucks of illegal and smuggled arms and ammunition heading for?

Selective amnesia is an affliction with you?

As far as the diatribe on the insurgencies, it maybe worth your education to revisit your facts, unless of course you are a movie scriptwriter of fictional childrens tale like Harry Potter.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Then read my previous comments in the event of war with China. Quite logical deduction but it seems to escape your clearly inferior intelligence.

As usual never to the point.

Too difficult to state what I asked?

It was only two word and you had to select just one.

It was just to be totally sure of where you stand since I knew that you would do the same thing as you are doing in the post to which I am replying.

Obfuscate!

 

[BanglaBhoot]

As usual never to the point.

Too difficult to state what I asked?

It was only two word and you had to select just one.

It was just to be totally sure of where you stand since I knew that you would do the same thing as you are doing in the post to which I am replying.

Obfuscate!

The clarity of your points require further refinement as you clearly intend to ignore my proposition on the fencing issue which you continue to obscure and confound.

 

[integra]

So kind of you sir.

If you were so generous, you could have donated this 'princely sum' to your Govt, so that they do not have to subsist on fund from foreign governments and organisations or accepting equipment on 'fiendship' prices.

It is obvious that you have no idea of engineering and costs.

But then, that is acceptable.

Well thanks for the comments Sire ...

With the money some of us wholeheartedly promised ($200),
could be used to construct a fence 12 feet in height 50 feet in width.
Just use 10mm circular bars 40 grade in the foundations. L angles
welded together at 10 ft intervals and barbwire at 4 inches interval.

Well, guess thats a reasonable offer.
By profession I'm just another Crazy Architect and
its true I'm not an expert when it comes to civil
engineering. Anyways If one starts other will follow.
But where to contact?

 

[Tshering22]

Visa= Entry
No Visa= 5.56 mm INSAS bullet

Very Simple.

Simple yet elegantly put.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Well thanks for the comments Sire ...

With the money some of us wholeheartedly promised ($200),
could be used to construct a fence 12 feet in height 50 feet in width.
Just use 10mm circular bars 40 grade in the foundations. L angles
welded together at 10 ft intervals and barbwire at 4 inches interval.

Well, guess thats a reasonable offer.
By profession I'm just another Crazy Architect and
its true I'm not an expert when it comes to civil
engineering. Anyways If one starts other will follow.
But where to contact?

Contact RAW, c/o The Indian High Commission in Dhaka. And make the payment by a Banker's Check.
Then contact Munshibabu with the payment details. That will give him a chance to write another 'book'.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Well thanks for the comments Sire ...

With the money some of us wholeheartedly promised ($200),
could be used to construct a fence 12 feet in height 50 feet in width.
Just use 10mm circular bars 40 grade in the foundations. L angles
welded together at 10 ft intervals and barbwire at 4 inches interval.

Well, guess thats a reasonable offer.
By profession I'm just another Crazy Architect and
its true I'm not an expert when it comes to civil
engineering. Anyways If one starts other will follow.
But where to contact?

The fence you are talking about is not a Border Fence.

It maybe to save your cattle in Bangaldesh from your local cattle rustlers (goru chors).

The standards of acceptability of works in Bangladesh and India would be different I presume notwithstanding you being an acclaimed architect of Bangladesh.