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Five Indian Soldiers Killed in Attack Along Pakistan Border

Testimony of an injured soldier means squat when it is from one side only.

I agree...from your view point. However do you think anyone is going to court on this matter? If IA is convinced, retribution will follow. The cycle does not & will not end. Not for quite some time.
 
The newly installed govt and ruler of PML N Nawaz Sharif met with PA General Kiyani got briefed and also briefed the Gen about his policy and after getting node from the Gen he went ahead with talks policy Hence no one should have doubt about Pakistan's intention to keep the dialogue process continued.

On the other hand statements from Indian generals viz a viz Kashmir were like streetboys' yelling You must look into possibility of Indian Army unhappy with dialogue with Pakistan over Kashmir and other issues.

There are supposed to be many pockets of power in Pakistan. No one believes that the powerful PA CoS is ready to swallow all the dictates from a civilian govt. PA establishment is too strong to accept a permanent cease fire at the LoC.

A volatile situation there guarantees the continuous privilege the PA generals and a million military families in Pakistan receive.

Newaz Sharif needs to understand his limit as the civilian Chief of Govt. General Kayani gave lip service to his overture and then sent his armed team to the LoC to undo that YES.
 
There are supposed to be many pockets of power in Pakistan. No one believes that the powerful PA CoS is ready to swallow all the dictates from a civilian govt. PA establishment is too strong to accept a permanent cease fire at the LoC.

A volatile situation there guarantees the continuous privilege the PA generals and a million military families in Pakistan receive.

Newaz Sharif needs to understand his limit as the civilian Chief of Govt. General Kayani gave lip service to his overture and then sent his armed team to the LoC to undo that YES.

If you want to have peace talks , we should be having talks with Kiyani and Pasha not Nawaz Shareef .. That guy has Zero control over what the military does ...
 
Seems Indian opposition parties are trying to play politics of dead bodies that too of their soldiers to hit at Congress.

Whereas Indian Army is concerned its been signaling war cries since start of this year.

Its time Indian Govt and Indian Army should be on same page to sort out things. Congress had displayed immense maturity over many issues be it Chinese tent issue, Telangana, Afzal Guru or so denting every move by Saffronies to score against Congress.

Dude i am not affiliated to any party and i am pissed to the core....so not sure from where you got this saffron thingi in picture...and yes Congress need to show some spine...mind it i am not against peace..in fact i want it..but not like this!!

I agree...from your view point. However do you think anyone is going to court on this matter? If IA is convinced, retribution will follow. The cycle does not & will not end. Not for quite some time.

You are referring to some cycle...i wish you can share some actions by our chaps as well...as i was a bit pissed at IA as well since there is hardly any story about their response...
 
New details of killings on LoC that came before Poonch ambush

by Praveen Swami

Even as fresh skirmishes rage along the northern reaches of the Line of Control, new details are emerging on the controversial killing of four Pakistani men on the Line of Control, an incident which is believed to have set off a spiral of clashes culminating in Monday’s lethal ambush of troops near Chakan-da-Bagh in Poonch. Pakistan has alleged that the four men were kidnapped by Indian troops operating across the Line of Control.

Police documentation exclusively obtained by Firstpost suggests that Zafran Ghulam Sarwar, Shah Zaman, Muhammad Faisal and Wajid Akbar may have been killed near Katwar Post, a forward position along the Line of Control in the Macchel sector, along the Neelam river, late on the night of 29 June.

Firstpost had broken news, on Tuesday, about concerns that the alleged killings and skirmishes which followed it may have triggered off a cycle leading to the killings of five Indian troops in Poonch-sparking off the worst India-Pakistan crisis in months.

In a First Information Report filed on 30 June, Indian troops said they had killed four unidentified Pakistani intruders. The FIR records the army’s statement that it recovered a AK-56 assault rifle, three pistols and a 12-bore shotgun from the group.

“You would expect terrorists to carry weapons like the AK-56″, a senior Jammu and Kashmir-based army officer said, “but I can’t understand what they’d be doing with a 12-bore gun, which is typically used for hunting small prey”.

He also noted it was unusual for an infiltrating group of four terrorists to possess only one assault rifle, and no grenades or communication equipment.

Local residents, who helped bury the bodies after they were handed over to local police through a special police officer attached to the army, said at least two of the men were wearing rubber flip-flops-again, unusual gear for men who had infiltrated mountain passes leading through the rugged Neelam valley.

The FIR was signed on behalf of the 56 Rashtriya Rifles by its adjutant.
The Rashtriya Rifles, drawn from various army formations, is generally deployed on counter-insurgency duties inside Jammu and Kashmir. However, the 56 Rashtriya Rifles operates up to the fencing running along the Line of Control.

It remains unclear, though, if the four men were, as Pakistan claims, innocent local residents who strayed close to the Line of Control while collecting herbs. Local residents say the men could also have been out poaching musk-deer, a common-if illegal activity. Intelligence officials based in Jammu and Kashmir had earlier told Firstpost that there was reason to believe the four men had been kidnapped in a cross-border operation, targettng individuals helping cross-border infiltrators.

The alleged kidnapping took place in the midst of a series of sweeps targeting groups of jihadists who had made their way across the Line of Control into the Hafruda forests above the north Kashmir town of Kupwara. In the last week of July alone, twelve jihadists were killed in northern Kashmir’s Kupwara district–levels of infiltration not seen in years. Five terrorists were killed short of Hema Post, on the Line of Control in Kupwara. The infiltration surge, as Firstpost recently revealed, has led to the first uptick in violence levels through Jammu and Kashmir since the near-war of 2001-2002.

New Delhi has so far offered no official comment on the controversy, while Jammu and Kashmir Director-General of Police Ashok Prasad will be probed only if the government orders an investigation.

Fighting between the two armies continues along the Line of Control, with both sides trading small-arms fire at Kamalkot, near Uri, last night and this morning. Two Pakistani soldiers are reported to have been injured in the latest exchanges.

Low-grade skirmishes have broken out regularly since January, when Pakistani troops beheaded two Indian soldiers, Lance-Naik Hem Raj and Lance-Naik Sudhakar Naik, in an ambush.

Later, in February, Pakistan alleged that one of its soldiers had been executed in cold blood after accidentally straying across the Line of Control and being taken prisoner. India, however, disputed this version of events.

“We detected some suspicious movement near the LoC inside our territory and the challengers from our side fired”, said Lieutenant-Colonel Rajesh Kalia, a spokesperson for the Indian army.

Late last month, Pakistan complained that “unprovoked” Indian fire had led to the death of Sepoy Asim Iqbal in the Nazia Peer sector, near the town of Rawlakote. India, however, said the firing began in response to an infiltration attempt.

Experts say the fighting is driven by both sides jockeying for tactical advantage along the Line of Control-a process in turn underpinned by the need of Indian troops to dominate possible infiltration routes, and the Pakistan army’s efforts to deny them those vantage positions.

Last year, in October, an escalatory spiral developed when Pakistan complained of new Indian border works at Charunda, in Uri. India responded that the works were purely defensive, intended to prevent illegal border crossings–among them, one of an elderly villager who left Charunda to be with her sons across the Line of Control. The unresolved dispute led to exchanges of fire, which eventually escalated into shelling and the killings of soldiers on both sides.

The November 2003 ceasefire, Indian diplomatic sources say, was based on an unwritten “agreement,” which in essence stipulated that neither side would reinforce its fortifications along the Line of Control –a measure first agreed to after the 1971 war. In 2006, the two sides exchanged drafts for a formal agreement–but the talks have stalled.

Exclusive: New details of killings on LoC that came before Poonch ambush - Firstpost
 
Note to our Chinese PLA ally, next time you do an incursion across the LAC fire some damn rounds.

It looks like India should take back what she said about being able to fight two wars at the same time with Pakistan and China.
 
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It seems that the Indian members here are more sanguine about this then about alleged Chinese incursions. Even without cross border bloodshed you have threads about alleged Chinese incursions full of Indian members talking about going to war with China in a "grant alliance" with Vietnam, Philippinnes, Japan, Singapore, South Korea and the US.

Grand alliance my azz。

Both South Korea and Singapore would have no part in this imagined alliance。

Vietnam would also opt out of the ”alliance“。

That leaves the US、Japan and the Philippines,with the 1st sharing with China more strategic and economic interests than any other third country,the 2nd being 25% dependent on China export wise,and the third a basket case。
 
Dude i am not affiliated to any party and i am pissed to the core....so not sure from where you got this saffron thingi in picture...and yes Congress need to show some spine...mind it i am not against peace..in fact i want it..but not like this!!



You are referring to some cycle...i wish you can share some actions by our chaps as well...as i was a bit pissed at IA as well since there is hardly any story about their response...

1. May their soul rest in peace. They laid down their lives and as a nation we should be grateful to them for their ultimate sacrifice

2. Retribution is a nasty word, but a word that IA and PA know and practice. 5 is a huge loss and you can watch the space, it will have news about more blood, same color, but different uniform, before the circle will reverse and so on. Don't pe pissed at IA. They are line a chained gorilla on that border and faced with a wolf pack. If only the politicians would have allowed them, this border would have been silent still... so, someone has to lend our pm and defence minister some balls to let army act. Eitherways, some unfortunate news will follow and you will see that in few days... Trust IA, their record is impeccable for my 30+ years of existence

This cycle has never stopped and never will stop till politicians on both sides muster up the courage to call a spade a spade and also to engage on the real issue of terrorism. Unfortunately, i don't see that coming. Indian side is too weak in their political will and sharif can do sheit about stoppung any of this, as these buggers form his back bone. IK was the solution, but alas he was rejected by the medieval minded majority (it was such a great chance missed)

3. if you are frustrated, then use the ONLY tool that you have.... VOTE and make your family vote in 6-9 months from now and may be you see a change. We need a stronger economy, a stronger political will and you will find these problems evaporate - army has been the, will be there, they just need the context

4. don't mind the forum fighters on either side. A lot of us are spooky paper bravehearts and extremists with random views and no or little substance. Hear the hatred or funny logic or fake chest thumping, have a laugh at it and once you had the fun for the day, join some serious forumers. These fanboys have never learned, never will and thus are always a good source of entertainment

Peace!
 
This has been going on for decades and is to be expected when you have outstanding disputes. This should not deter or derail mutual thingies......
 
There are supposed to be many pockets of power in Pakistan. No one believes that the powerful PA CoS is ready to swallow all the dictates from a civilian govt. PA establishment is too strong to accept a permanent cease fire at the LoC.

A volatile situation there guarantees the continuous privilege the PA generals and a million military families in Pakistan receive.

Newaz Sharif needs to understand his limit as the civilian Chief of Govt. General Kayani gave lip service to his overture and then sent his armed team to the LoC to undo that YES.

thanks for your suggestions but, I would suggest you keep your focus to Bangladesh politics, we are Pakistanis & we are damn proud of our million plus strong army
( 620,000 active, 550,000 reserved, 450,000 paramilitary, 4,000 mountain warfare troops ) & we will happily feed them & families even if we have to share our food with them, we will do, we are a nation who were willing to eat grass but be a nuclear power & we became one & we are damn proud of it, sorry but we are not into rabindra sangit & nor do we have any interest for those things
 
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