Five FC soldiers martyred in two attacks in Balochistan

[PanzerKiel]

Gentlemen, with all due respect your different opinions, which are all well received...

Some input from my side, since I have served both with army and FC....

First, FC is not under control of Army or even COAS...

FC is under MOI and they control its use like Army HQ does for its under-command formations.

I havent seen anyone from MOI visiting FC troops deployed in Balochistan for the last 3 years or so.

Not only MOI, but there are other departments as well responsible for weapon / equipment of FC which need to get their act straight...

Money is absolutely no problem for FC, I would say they have much more than army, and fewer restrictions than army on procurement as well....

Problem is not with FC troops, they fight well... Problem lies in the departments which control them, which are not even present in the province....

Otherwise.... FC training, doctrine, equipment, pay scales, rules, regulations.... Everything is entirely different from army... In my opinion, blaming COAS for mismanagement in FC would be unfair...

Even then if we want to blame someone, then let's choose someone from ministry of interior which is the real GHQ of FC.... Not the army GHQ.....

 

[Khan vilatey]

Updated 19 Feb, 2021 07:49 am

Five FC soldiers martyred in two attacks in Balochistan

Saleem Shahid

QUETTA: Five members of the Frontier Corps were martyred and two others injured in two attacks in different areas of the province.

In one incident, which took place in the western bypass area of the provincial capital on Thursday, an FC soldier was martyred and two others were injured when a remote-controlled bomb fixed to a motorcycle parked at the roadside exploded, as an FC vehicle was passing by.

"The bomb blast took place near the official vehicle of the Frontier Corps in which one FC soldier was martyred on the spot and two other soldiers were injured," senior police officer Shaukat Mohmand told Dawn, adding that the blast badly damaged the vehicle.

"An improvised explosive device strapped to a motorcycle parked at the roadside was detonated with a remote control," the police officer said.

Personnel of FC and police rushed to the area after the blast and took victims of the blast to a hospital.

In the second incident, four soldiers of Frontier Corps were martyred in an attack by armed men on their check-post in Kahan area of Kohlu district.

Sources said the armed men opened fire on Zaman Khan check-post the other day which resulted in the martyrdom of four FC soldiers while another was injured.

Published in Dawn, February 19th, 2021

Five FC soldiers martyred in two attacks in Balochistan

Four soldiers were martyred after armed men attacked a check-post in Kahan area of Kohlu district.

www.dawn.com

Salute to the shaeed, from a proud army and grateful nation. There sacrifice reminds us of the high price we pay for our freedom

k

 

[khansaheeb]

That is a totally stupid and clownish way to defend incompetency of Pakistani military top brass

You are saying all this because these deaths have no value for you. for you these are just numbers. Statistics

You don't win wars by getting killed like insects. You win wars by killing enemy

Current military leadership doesn't understand this or at least doesn't have balls to do this and you are defending their incompetency by making lamest of excuses


Exactly

In any other country PM would have been doing meetings when some many soldiers were lost continuously under his rule

Here our PM doesn't even bother to visit Quetta. For these guys these deaths don't matter. These guys can keep on getting killed while our PM would keep on ruling Pakistan like nothing happened

Pakistan lacks strong leadership. Both civilian and military

I am sure our top brass feel the pain from the loss of their soldiers. Your comments seem to show that you are out of touch with reality as it is very difficult to prevent losses in terrorist locations because of the terrain, organisation and tactics the terrorists employ. Almost every large country has suffered casualties when some populace go rogue. US, UK, Spain etc have too suffered losses and it has been political solution through negotiations that has drawn peace and successful reconciliation. Pakistan army is the hammer and geared for India , dealing with the Baluch needs a new approach and tactical shift.

List of active rebel groups - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hussain0216]

As much as I'd like to agree with those calling for an end to tin dabba pickups and proper MRAPs instead. It's really much easier said than done, a huge multi-layered effort and the investment to back that effort is needed in each theater to deal with IEDs.

IEDs are a tough challenge to deal with, the US with all its MRAPs, gigantic amounts of investment in equipment and training couldn't defeat this challenge, only minimize. The initiative is always with the attacker, they can choose the perfect spot for ambushes, and placing IEDs, they can lie in wait on favorable terrain or some vantage point, they can be disguised until the moment they decide to strike. You are forced to be reactive, and forced to forgo some objectives if you prefer safety. The US tried everything, they loaded up on MRAPs, trained and drilled their troops in how to avoid and react, they even compromised their objectives, and began avoiding roads, preferring to plow through fields belonging to locals, they used electronic and radio jammers fitted to convoys etc.

All it did was that it minimised the effectiveness of IEDs, and raised the cost of a successful attack (if you define success as causing casualties for example). But it also raised the cost for them, and this is the real reason why ANY conventionally superior army loses to insurgency, if you meet them on their terms, they'll beat you with asymmetric means like IEDs, run out the clock until you lose the will to fight, or force you to burn incredible amounts of cash for minimal effectiveness.

Here are three strategies you need to defeat the IED threat, this was outlined by JIDO/JIEEDO:

1. Defeat the device - Which includes "find the device", clearing, and protecting against the device.
2. Attack the network - Attack the IED makers, the financiers, intelligence raids. Even this is a huge subject in and of itself, and it includes minutia such as material control and monitoring.
3. Train the force - IEDs will be there even with 1 and 2, troops should now how to avoid and deal with the threat.

Here's what the US achieved with these efforts. In Iraq, at least on the face of it they saw a mixed success. But analysts theorise that this had more to do with beating the insurgency itself than about this effort against IEDs. Whereas in Afghanistan, the opposite happened, over the period that this strategy was being implemented, the number of IED attacks rose and their effectiveness improved. Here I'll quote some summaries from an article that I read:



Long story short, the US with all its resources, all its compromise of objectives, and its technical capabilities. And despite spending $50 billion on MRAPs alone, they only minimised the effectiveness with a combined strategy. Even then all it really achieved was increasing the cost to the insurgent, while taking on unbearable costs itself, and reducing the casualty rate. The key lesson for them was that defeating the insurgency, and lowering the general rate of violence was the only proper solution.

My two cents on our counter-ambush and counter-IED strategy is pretty limited based on my limited understanding. But it seems to me we don't have the means to mirror the US strategy, and if these findings are accurate, we shouldn't need to.

The focus should be on counter-insurgency efforts in the theater as they have shown to be successful in the past. Of the US strategy, we can continue to work on points two and three, attack the insurgent network (repeat previous successes), and train the forces better. I think we already use jammers in some limited capacity, so point one + MRAPs can be used, but they can't be used in every convoy and in every area with IED threat. Beyond this, with the use of drones, we can further raise the cost of an ambush. Rapid response and recon, the goal should be that where a large ambush has taken place, the perpetrators should not live to see sundown.

Exactly


And that was with the U.S spending tens of billions

We can't spend tens of billions

Our best bet is to fund and support intelligence gathering and intelligence led operations to target and kill the terrorists

Use of drones for both targeting and intelligence gathering as well as route information


Quick response to attacks but even then then the terrorists can simply drop weapons and be no different to any other local


This is a combined effort with intelligence at the centre and we need to counter the propaganda online

The liberal brigade supporting the "oppressed nations" with their politics of resistance is just as dangerous as are the ineffective biased self serving politicians

 

[Areesh]

I am sure our top brass feel the pain from the loss of their soldiers. Your comments seem to show that you are out of touch with reality as it is very difficult to prevent losses in terrorist locations because of the terrain, organisation and tactics the terrorists employ. Almost every large country has suffered casualties when some populace go rogue. US, UK, Spain etc have too suffered losses and it has been political solution through negotiations that has drawn peace and successful reconciliation. Pakistan army is the hammer and geared for India , dealing with the Baluch needs a new approach and tactical shift.

List of active rebel groups - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Baloch rebels who have picked guns deserve nothing but a bullet. Period

You want to talk? Drop the gun.

And nope top military leadership is headless chicken who don't know what to do in Balochistan and are treating troops of FC Balochistan as cannon fodder. For them these poor soldiers are nothing but few numbers. This is a reality. The sooner we accept this reality the better. Current Pak military leadership isn't good enough to face the threats this country is facing. And same is the case with incompetent buffoons in civilians like Imran Khan

Gentlemen, with all due respect your different opinions, which are all well received...

Some input from my side, since I have served both with army and FC....

First, FC is not under control of Army or even COAS...

FC is under MOI and they control its use like Army HQ does for its under-command formations.

I havent seen anyone from MOI visiting FC troops deployed in Balochistan for the last 3 years or so.

Not only MOI, but there are other departments as well responsible for weapon / equipment of FC which need to get their act straight...

Money is absolutely no problem for FC, I would say they have much more than army, and fewer restrictions than army on procurement as well....

Problem is not with FC troops, they fight well... Problem lies in the departments which control them, which are not even present in the province....

Otherwise.... FC training, doctrine, equipment, pay scales, rules, regulations.... Everything is entirely different from army... In my opinion, blaming COAS for mismanagement in FC would be unfair...

Even then if we want to blame someone, then let's choose someone from ministry of interior which is the real GHQ of FC.... Not the army GHQ.....
View attachment 717688

And General Bajwa, DG Isi, Corps Commander Quetta and IG FC Balochistan are partners of these incompetent civilians for remaining silent while sons of Pakistan are getting killed every other day while terrorists are enjoying upper hand in Balochistan

Right now terrorists are winning in Balochistan and Pakistani military is at a back foot and no song by Rahat Fateh Ali Khan and ISPR can change that

BLA : 1
Pak military : 0

 

[khansaheeb]

Baloch rebels who have picked guns deserve nothing but a bullet. Period

You want to talk? Drop the gun.

And nope top military leadership is headless chicken who don't know what to do in Balochistan and are treating troops of FC Balochistan as cannon fodder. For them these poor soldiers are nothing but few numbers. This is a reality. The sooner we accept this reality the better. Current Pak military leadership isn't good enough to face the threats this country is facing. And same is the case with incompetent buffoons in civilians like Imran Khan

So what is the solution? What have you learnt from the 40 states who have had insurgencies and if they did, how they resolved the issues? You sound like a complaining wife , always complaining about what's wrong and who never poses a solution (because it is easy to moan and complain). very few countries defeated insurgencies by brute force (Sri Lanka being one).

 

[Areesh]

It's being done

We are hitting the terrorists
We are hitting them in Pakistan
We are hitting them in Afghanistan
We are hitting them everywhere

We are heavily involved in India
Hindutva inside India is a massive weapon for us
As poison spreads in India at every moment we are involved from Indian Muslims and CAA
To Punjabi farmers
To Maoists
To Kashmiri

Not everything has to be about bombs and attacks there are multiple ways to hit your enemy

Last few years for India have been BRUTAL from migs being shot down
To pulwama to China coming and brutalising them
Riots in the Capital Delhi on more then one occasion
Farmers on the red fort and Indian security taking a pounding

We are doing what we have to and hindutva is helping



YES we can always do more and I want the afghanis and Baluchi nationalists to suffer

But overall remember 10 years ago or even 5

Look where we have come and where Afghanistan and India is now

Our enemies are paying and we need to plan and think smart

View attachment 717656

What nonsense you are spewing man? Are you that delusional?

Enemy doesn't care about farmers protests. Period

Yeah farmer protests are good to troll Indians on social media and that's it. There is no more value of these farmer protests

Only thing that hurts our enemy is dead body of its officers and soldiers. Dead bodies going back to Uttar Pardesh, Maharashtra, Rajasthan, Haryana, Bihar etc

How many dead bodies Indians have got in first two months of 2021? Compare that to soldiers that we have lost in Balochistan alone

Stop sticking your head in a sand and accept the reality that we are at back foot in our war with our enemy. Enemy right now has an upper hand and in competency, cowardice and apathy of both civilian and military leadership is responsible for it

So what is the solution? What have you learnt from the 40 states who have had insurgencies and if they did, how they resolved the issues? You sound like a complaining wife , always complaining about what's wrong and who never poses a solution (because it is easy to moan and complain). very few countries defeated insurgencies by brute force (Sri Lanka being one).

Solution is simple

Win the war on ground and then talk

If I am a BLA commander then why would I lay down my weapons when I am winning the war? Why would I leave militancy when I have this belief that I am winning on ground?

It is all simple logic

You guys are so stupid and deranged that you think talks would solve everything. That idiot Imran Khan also thinks the same. And price is paid by sons of Pakistan for your cowardice

 

[Areesh]

100%, I'd go as far as to say that it was lost the day he left office.
Just shocking.
What the hell are the drones doing that were bought?

You win a war by killing enemy. Not by getting killed at the hands of an enemy

Apparently this simple logic is too difficult for Pakistani leadership to understand

 

[Moriro]

You win a war by killing enemy. Not by getting killed at the hands of an enemy

Apparently this simple logic is too difficult for Pakistani leadership to understand

Well the simple fact is that those who are willing to die because their leadership don't cares will eventually die. Leaders don't care niether the one who dies so why you care?

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

We are not stupid to ask for hitting in east to deal with situation in West. We have to have to hit east hit hard. Ops in Bloachistan ain't gonna solve nothing. Today its this guy tomorrow its that guy. But the root is in east we have to get rid of roots in east so we can be at peace.

Gentlemen, with all due respect your different opinions, which are all well received...

Some input from my side, since I have served both with army and FC....

First, FC is not under control of Army or even COAS...

FC is under MOI and they control its use like Army HQ does for its under-command formations.

I havent seen anyone from MOI visiting FC troops deployed in Balochistan for the last 3 years or so.

Not only MOI, but there are other departments as well responsible for weapon / equipment of FC which need to get their act straight...

Money is absolutely no problem for FC, I would say they have much more than army, and fewer restrictions than army on procurement as well....

Problem is not with FC troops, they fight well... Problem lies in the departments which control them, which are not even present in the province....

Otherwise.... FC training, doctrine, equipment, pay scales, rules, regulations.... Everything is entirely different from army... In my opinion, blaming COAS for mismanagement in FC would be unfair...

Even then if we want to blame someone, then let's choose someone from ministry of interior which is the real GHQ of FC.... Not the army GHQ.....
View attachment 717688

So you saying our command and control system over FC is outdated, outmatched to the requirements. And as you know so does our army command. And they choose to look the other way when they know what you know too. Sad sad sad brains at work.

 

[Maxpane]

RIP

 

[KaiserX]

There is only 1 solution to this problem and that is to wipe out the Baloch insurgency from the very core. We must be ruthless and brutal as our peace loving tactics have not worked in the last 60 years. We must take tough decisions today for a better tomorrow. There is no doubt there will have to be a 2 pronged approach to this issue. One is internal the other is External as both these factors have fueled this never ending insurgency. For this we must do the following:

Internally in Balochistan/Pakistan:

1) Settup mass re-education camps. Baloch people must be re-educated with Pakistani nationalism. Chinese help can be sought in this.

2) Encourage Mass migration of punjabis, sindhis, mujahirs, pushtuns to balochistan. For this we can provide some sort of tax incentives and housing schemes. Cost would be very minimal compared to other parts of Pakistan since land is dirt cheap in balochistan and the fed govt has a lot of unused land as well. Peace loving Punjabis/sindhis/mujahirs/pushtun should be militarized similar to the baloch and equipped with their own weaponry so they may protect themselves

3) Give our troops a free hand. As of now our soldiers are following strict protocalls and acting more like a police force than a military force.

4) Use of Drones, UCAVS, and attack helicopters. We crushed the baloch insurgency in the 70s by coordinating with Iran and jointly doing airstrikes. We dont need to work with the persian snakes because at this point our army is far more capable.

5) We must must must create atleast 3 provinces out of balochistan. Gwadar can be its own province, the rest can be split in 2 along ethnic lines. The more isolated the problem the better it will be to tackle.

Externally what must be done:

1) Strike BLA target in Afghanistan with no mercy. No more ummah brotherhood mumbo jumbo. Afghans are our enemys until they enter hell. We must raise the level of punishment for them so it is to costly for them.

2) Strike BLA tagets in Iran. Same as above. Even if we must work with the ISRAELIS THEN SO BE IT. We shall learn from them to show no mercy to our enemys.

3) Work with global partners to add BLA terrorist to interpol list and terrorist list. If they are unwilling we must send ISI agents to take them out wherever they are.

Overall, we MUST ADOBT ISRAELI TACTICS AT THIS POINT TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY. THE COST OF PUNISHMENT TO THE BLA/AFGHANS/INDIANS/IRANIANS MUST BE SO HIGH THAT THEY DARE NOT INDULDGE IN MISADVENTURES. EVEN IF OUR MISSILE STRIKES TARGET INNOCENT CIVILIANS THEN SO BE IT, ID RATHER SEE 1000S OF AFGHAN/BALOCH TERRORIST DEAD THAN 100 OF MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN.

@Beny Karachun please provide your insight on this counter insurgency effort from an israeli point of view.

 

[Sal12]

First of all, indecent & unethical language is not allowed no matter how much you have a political difference. Secondly, I am not an IK supporter at all, to be precisely I hate politics to the core but can you share a summary of overall losses under the leadership of crooks like Nawaz & Zardari? The day this nation/Pakistanis realized and rejected the real culprits, problems will start to go away. Your political influenced hate & name calling is not the solution neither progressive except that you are merely venting frustration. When you quote back, make sure you ain't rude like this.

Respect is something which is earned.

There is no doubt Zardari and Sharif has done corruption to such a level that this comes in treason. But their corruption does not justify the incompetency of IK and Bajwa. The nation will remain like this as it is today or will become more worse by each passing day till people sitting in top most hierarchy does surgery of this nation. Not possible under IK especially as long as Bajwa is here.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

There is only 1 solution to this problem and that is to wipe out the Baloch insurgency from the very core. We must be ruthless and brutal as our peace loving tactics have not worked in the last 60 years. We must take tough decisions today for a better tomorrow. There is no doubt there will have to be a 2 pronged approach to this issue. One is internal the other is External as both these factors have fueled this never ending insurgency. For this we must do the following:

Internally in Balochistan/Pakistan:

1) Settup mass re-education camps. Baloch people must be re-educated with Pakistani nationalism. Chinese help can be sought in this.

2) Encourage Mass migration of punjabis, sindhis, mujahirs, pushtuns to balochistan. For this we can provide some sort of tax incentives and housing schemes. Cost would be very minimal compared to other parts of Pakistan since land is dirt cheap in balochistan and the fed govt has a lot of unused land as well. Peace loving Punjabis/sindhis/mujahirs/pushtun should be militarized similar to the baloch and equipped with their own weaponry so they may protect themselves

3) Give our troops a free hand. As of now our soldiers are following strict protocalls and acting more like a police force than a military force.

4) Use of Drones, UCAVS, and attack helicopters. We crushed the baloch insurgency in the 70s by coordinating with Iran and jointly doing airstrikes. We dont need to work with the persian snakes because at this point our army is far more capable.

5) We must must must create atleast 3 provinces out of balochistan. Gwadar can be its own province, the rest can be split in 2 along ethnic lines. The more isolated the problem the better it will be to tackle.

Externally what must be done:

1) Strike BLA target in Afghanistan with no mercy. No more ummah brotherhood mumbo jumbo. Afghans are our enemys until they enter hell. We must raise the level of punishment for them so it is to costly for them.

2) Strike BLA tagets in Iran. Same as above. Even if we must work with the ISRAELIS THEN SO BE IT. We shall learn from them to show no mercy to our enemys.

3) Work with global partners to add BLA terrorist to interpol list and terrorist list. If they are unwilling we must send ISI agents to take them out wherever they are.

Overall, we MUST ADOBT ISRAELI TACTICS AT THIS POINT TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY. THE COST OF PUNISHMENT TO THE BLA/AFGHANS/INDIANS/IRANIANS MUST BE SO HIGH THAT THEY DARE NOT INDULDGE IN MISADVENTURES. EVEN IF OUR MISSILE STRIKES TARGET INNOCENT CIVILIANS THEN SO BE IT, ID RATHER SEE 1000S OF AFGHAN/BALOCH TERRORIST DEAD THAN 100 OF MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN.

@Beny Karachun please provide your insight on this counter insurgency effort from an israeli point of view.

I tend to agree with commentators who are pointing out that cutting off one head of the hydra is pointless as it will grow back in time.

The hydra's heart must be speared, and the heart of this beast exists to our east. Until it is hit there, its various loosely organised subsidiaries will continue to gain succour and sustenance from its existence.

 

[Mrc]

All check posts needs to be visited by army experts and appropriately re designed with appropriate defensive measures fire support and back up.

Attackers needs to b identified and taken care off..

Border needs to be sealed that hopefully will happen by June.

Leaders need to b taken out including social media. Mouth pieces and this shud b done ruthlessly


Multiprong approach needed