Five FC soldiers martyred in two attacks in Balochistan

[hussain0216]

Nation pays when an incompetent and low IQ level person like IK becomes PM. Similarly foot soldier pays with their lives when equally incompetent and mentally weak person like Baja becomes army chief. Then situation goes worse when this mentally weak incompetent person gets 3 years of extension by incompetent PM.

There is no doubt Pak is stuck between corrupts and traitors on one side and incompetents on other side.

IK is a patriot

The country does not require your traitors like Pmln or ppp

 

[Goenitz]

I hope the drones can provide some useful reconnaissance. I think the intelligence ops going in Baluchistan are good as proper operation required some fortified/stronghold of an enemy.
We need more intelligence ops, and for that 24 hrs surveillance. We can buy more affordable and portable drones like the small helicopters China make.

 

[waz]

I hope the drones can provide some useful reconnaissance. I think the intelligence op going in Baluchistan are good as proper operation required some fortified/stronghold of an enemy.
We need intelligence op, and for that 24 hrs surveillance. We can buy more affordable and portable drones like the small helicopters China make.

They're sitting in the hangars by the looks of it brother. These are also the armed versions. The skies should be patrolled 24 hours a day by them, and soon as there is an attack they should fly over there and loiter. These rats always have to escape, which is the key time to hit them.

 

[Sal12]

IK is a patriot

The country does not require your traitors like Pmln or ppp

IK is a patriot but incompetent as well. Country does not require IK, Sharifs and Zardaris. They all are not good for the country.

Just like corrupts appoints corrupts, Incompetents appoints incompetents. You will take lot of time to understand that making incompetent as PM is not a solution for fixing corrupt PM.

 

[Areesh]

Yaar I agree with you, that we are indeed losing FC

Every soldiers life is precious and we MUST come up with new strategies to protect our forces

But let me ask you how many FC did we lose in 2020, add them all.up it will probably be between 50-100

Some months were quiet and had nothing, other months 1 or 2

Some months the terrorists managed a IED or something


Almost always in the middle of nowhere,

PAKISTAN population of 220 million protected and shielded


The same goes for Waziristan

There was a glacial flood in India a few weeks ago 200+ dead

UK covid death toll last year's 50,000+


So our 50-100 in Balochistan is small


Again the enemy holds no territory
It is angry at our fencing and border plans
Our enemy is indeed being targeted both inside and outside PAKISTAN especially in Afghanistan



We MUST stay the course and grind them down whilst finding better ways to respond and arm our FC better and protect them better






I am in NO WAY saying the death of any soldier is acceptable just that the strategy we have is the right one but it will take time

Secure the border's,
Stop any crossing
Target our enemies everywhere
Grind them down


The question is when you are angry it's easy to say let them live like animals,
There has been many times after seeing the PTM types that I have felt that we should cut elec for long periods of time
Cut the internet
Provide no services
Let them live like animals
And provide services to the areas that don't support fassad
But is that helping? Will that break them and make them.behave or will it make them more pig headed

That is a totally stupid and clownish way to defend incompetency of Pakistani military top brass

You are saying all this because these deaths have no value for you. for you these are just numbers. Statistics

You don't win wars by getting killed like insects. You win wars by killing enemy

Current military leadership doesn't understand this or at least doesn't have balls to do this and you are defending their incompetency by making lamest of excuses

Nation pays when an incompetent and low IQ level person like IK becomes PM. Similarly foot soldier pays with their lives when equally incompetent and mentally weak person like Baja becomes army chief. Then situation goes worse when this mentally weak incompetent person gets 3 years of extension by incompetent PM.

There is no doubt Pak is stuck between corrupts and traitors on one side and incompetents on other side.

Exactly

In any other country PM would have been doing meetings when some many soldiers were lost continuously under his rule

Here our PM doesn't even bother to visit Quetta. For these guys these deaths don't matter. These guys can keep on getting killed while our PM would keep on ruling Pakistan like nothing happened

Pakistan lacks strong leadership. Both civilian and military

 

[Goenitz]

These rats always have to escape, which is the key time to hit them.

Even before that, as HQ would know what is their route so just monitor activity along long route a day or 2 before. If IEDs are planted in urban route then only ground intelligence is needed and effective.

I bet these people travel at night or in evening and at dawn. If they are carrying some guns etc, then they can be detected using IR.

If we can guard them by drone, then it will be better to deploy sniper teams too as they get battle ready even if they don't hit anything. Spending days with small rations will make them tough.

 

[khansaheeb]

Sir they call it improvised explosive device because it can be created out of basic commodities.

They maybe improvised and made from basic available commodities but they are still sophisticated and require quite a bit of technical skills which is normally imparted through agencies and military personnel. So the terrorists are being trained and we don't know where, when and how. Are they being taken to India, Afghanistan or Tel-Aviv?

What we know is that foreign agencies have been involved with the BLA and other groups including: India, Israel, Afghanistan, US, UK and Russia.

"A February 2011 article by Selig S. Harrison of the Center for International Policy called for supporting "anti-Islamist forces" along the southern Arabian Sea coast, including "Baluch insurgents fighting for independence from Pakistan", as a means of weakening the "rising tide of anti-American passion" in Pakistan and heading off any alliance between Islamabad and Beijing – Pakistan having granted China access to a naval base" at Gwadar.[181]

 

[hussain0216]

That is a totally stupid and clownish way to defend incompetency of Pakistani military top brass

You are saying all this because these deaths have no value for you. for you these are just numbers. Statistics

You don't win wars by getting killed like insects. You win wars by killing enemy

Current military leadership doesn't understand this or at least doesn't have balls to do this and you are defending their incompetency by making lamest of excuses


Exactly

In any other country PM would have been doing meetings when some many soldiers were lost continuously under his rule

Here our PM doesn't even bother to visit Quetta. For these guys these deaths don't matter. These guys can keep on getting killed while our PM would keep on ruling Pakistan like nothing happened

Pakistan lacks strong leadership. Both civilian and military

Let me turn it around for you

Apart from going after the terrorists both inside and outside of Pakistan

What exactly would you suggest?

IK is a patriot but incompetent as well. Country does not require IK, Sharifs and Zardaris. They all are not good for the country.

Just like corrupts appoints corrupts, Incompetents appoints incompetents. You will take lot of time to understand that making incompetent as PM is not a solution for fixing corrupt PM.

Thus far he is the best we have had, it's that simple

These are steps in the right direction you can't fix Jahilat in Pakistan over night so unless we support patriots then the jahil and unpatriotic will get back in

 

[Areesh]

Let me turn it around for you

Apart from going after the terrorists both inside and outside of Pakistan

What exactly would you suggest?

First of all we are not doing the part that you mentioned in your post. Not to the extent that is needed. Clearly terrorists have enough time and space to execute such attacks which show much more is needed to be done against them

Secondly tit for tat. Make India pay with its soldiers in IOK. that is not happening. We are not doing anything in IOK. Whatever small attacks that we see in IOK are done by local fighters themselves. Enemy is enjoying watching our soldiers get killed every other day while its soldiers are busy raping Kashmiri women in IOK

 

[hussain0216]

First of all we are not doing the part that you mentioned in your post. Not to the extent that is needed. Clearly terrorists have enough time and space to execute such attacks which show much more is needed to be done against them

Secondly tit for tat. Make India pay with its soldiers in IOK. that is not happening. We are not doing anything in IOK. Whatever small attacks that we see in IOK are done by local fighters themselves. Enemy is enjoying watching our soldiers get killed every other day while its soldiers are busy raping Kashmiri women in IOK

It's being done

We are hitting the terrorists
We are hitting them in Pakistan
We are hitting them in Afghanistan
We are hitting them everywhere

We are heavily involved in India
Hindutva inside India is a massive weapon for us
As poison spreads in India at every moment we are involved from Indian Muslims and CAA
To Punjabi farmers
To Maoists
To Kashmiri

Not everything has to be about bombs and attacks there are multiple ways to hit your enemy

Last few years for India have been BRUTAL from migs being shot down
To pulwama to China coming and brutalising them
Riots in the Capital Delhi on more then one occasion
Farmers on the red fort and Indian security taking a pounding

We are doing what we have to and hindutva is helping



YES we can always do more and I want the afghanis and Baluchi nationalists to suffer

But overall remember 10 years ago or even 5

Look where we have come and where Afghanistan and India is now

Our enemies are paying and we need to plan and think smart

 

[The Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1362754107769950209

 

[Goenitz]

Secondly tit for tat.

I hope Assamese and other eastern states weapons quality can be improved. Since, its birth the 'mighty' IA cannot defeat them and they blame Pak how they can lose from 200k Muktis.

Anyway, IA hasn't fought an insurgency like TTP which has snipers, AKs, Humvees, RPG, IEDs etc. So if only mizoramese, nagas, tripuras, assamese can have better quality weapons to fight for their rights. That will be a wonderful day. The Coup in mayanmar may be helpful for Chinese in this regard.

 

[The Eagle]

Nation pays when an incompetent and low IQ level person like IK becomes PM. Similarly foot soldier pays with their lives when equally incompetent and mentally weak person like Baja becomes army chief. Then situation goes worse when this mentally weak incompetent person gets 3 years of extension by incompetent PM.

There is no doubt Pak is stuck between corrupts and traitors on one side and incompetents on other side.

First of all, indecent & unethical language is not allowed no matter how much you have a political difference. Secondly, I am not an IK supporter at all, to be precisely I hate politics to the core but can you share a summary of overall losses under the leadership of crooks like Nawaz & Zardari? The day this nation/Pakistanis realized and rejected the real culprits, problems will start to go away. Your political influenced hate & name calling is not the solution neither progressive except that you are merely venting frustration. When you quote back, make sure you ain't rude like this.

 

[Jungibaaz]

As much as I'd like to agree with those calling for an end to tin dabba pickups and proper MRAPs instead. It's really much easier said than done, a huge multi-layered effort and the investment to back that effort is needed in each theater to deal with IEDs.

IEDs are a tough challenge to deal with, the US with all its MRAPs, gigantic amounts of investment in equipment and training couldn't defeat this challenge, only minimize. The initiative is always with the attacker, they can choose the perfect spot for ambushes, and placing IEDs, they can lie in wait on favorable terrain or some vantage point, they can be disguised until the moment they decide to strike. You are forced to be reactive, and forced to forgo some objectives if you prefer safety. The US tried everything, they loaded up on MRAPs, trained and drilled their troops in how to avoid and react, they even compromised their objectives, and began avoiding roads, preferring to plow through fields belonging to locals, they used electronic and radio jammers fitted to convoys etc.

All it did was that it minimised the effectiveness of IEDs, and raised the cost of a successful attack (if you define success as causing casualties for example). But it also raised the cost for them, and this is the real reason why ANY conventionally superior army loses to insurgency, if you meet them on their terms, they'll beat you with asymmetric means like IEDs, run out the clock until you lose the will to fight, or force you to burn incredible amounts of cash for minimal effectiveness.

Here are three strategies you need to defeat the IED threat, this was outlined by JIDO/JIEEDO:

1. Defeat the device - Which includes "find the device", clearing, and protecting against the device.
2. Attack the network - Attack the IED makers, the financiers, intelligence raids. Even this is a huge subject in and of itself, and it includes minutia such as material control and monitoring.
3. Train the force - IEDs will be there even with 1 and 2, troops should now how to avoid and deal with the threat.

Here's what the US achieved with these efforts. In Iraq, at least on the face of it they saw a mixed success. But analysts theorise that this had more to do with beating the insurgency itself than about this effort against IEDs. Whereas in Afghanistan, the opposite happened, over the period that this strategy was being implemented, the number of IED attacks rose and their effectiveness improved. Here I'll quote some summaries from an article that I read:

Efforts to find, clear, and defend against IEDs showed modest gains over the course of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. In both theaters, the “find and clear” rate improved from 40 percent in the earliest months of the wars to 60 percent by the end of 2011. In Iraq, improved force protection measures, including armor and electronic jammers for radio-controlled IEDs, also quadrupled the number of IED attacks required to cause a casualty, from five to 20. Total IED attacks also fell precipitously beginning in June 2007, six months into a 15 percent increase in U.S. troop numbers during the surge. That same month also marked the beginning of the “Awakening” as Sunni tribesmen increasingly began working with U.S. forces against the insurgency. As a result, IED casualties dropped dramatically even before coalition troop numbers fell similarly. In Iraq, key technical innovations made gains against the IED, but the tide turned only when gains were made against the insurgency itself.

..........

Gains in Afghanistan came much later, however, and in a different form. Through 2010, the IED was winning — the number of attacks required to cause a casualty actually fell from 14 to 11. Total IED casualties spiked thereafter, as a surge of U.S. forces implemented a counter-insurgency strategy that required more dismounted patrols among the Afghan population. As the surge wound down and Afghan forces were placed in the lead in 2012, coalition IED casualties dropped from 60 to 40 percent of total casualties. IED attacks against Afghan forces surged that same year, however, increasing 124 percent. Coalition IED casualties continued to recede as additional stress was placed on Afghan forces. Since 2012, overall attack levels have remained high, varying more with the seasons than with the passing years. In Afghanistan, adaptation reduced risk to coalition troops rather than innovation. Placing local security forces in the lead, and removing coalition forces, reduced the IED threat more than innovative means of addressing the devices.

The U.S. military was able to achieve modest gains against the IED by innovating its way toward improved detection, disablement, and protection against the bombs. The 50 percent increase in the find and clear rate, though, was far from enough to make insurgents consider abandoning the devices. When a $265 device can disable a $525,000 armored vehicle, quadrupling the number of bombs required to be effective does not turn cost and risk in favor of the counter-insurgent. Despite efforts to control access to IED components, the devices actually got cheaper over the course of the wars even as armor, electronic jammers, and mine detectors became more expensive. Innovation saved lives and improved freedom of maneuver, but barely dented the IED’s asymmetric advantage.

Source: https://warontherocks.com/2017/05/h...-the-myth-of-tactical-success-and-innovation/

Long story short, the US with all its resources, all its compromise of objectives, and its technical capabilities. And despite spending $50 billion on MRAPs alone, they only minimised the effectiveness with a combined strategy. Even then all it really achieved was increasing the cost to the insurgent, while taking on unbearable costs itself, and reducing the casualty rate. The key lesson for them was that defeating the insurgency, and lowering the general rate of violence was the only proper solution.

My two cents on our counter-ambush and counter-IED strategy is pretty limited based on my limited understanding. But it seems to me we don't have the means to mirror the US strategy, and if these findings are accurate, we shouldn't need to.

The focus should be on counter-insurgency efforts in the theater as they have shown to be successful in the past. Of the US strategy, we can continue to work on points two and three, attack the insurgent network (repeat previous successes), and train the forces better. I think we already use jammers in some limited capacity, so point one + MRAPs can be used, but they can't be used in every convoy and in every area with IED threat. Beyond this, with the use of drones, we can further raise the cost of an ambush. Rapid response and recon, the goal should be that where a large ambush has taken place, the perpetrators should not live to see sundown.

 

[Darth Vader]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un