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Finland's leaders call for NATO membership 'without delay', Russia warns it will 'inflict serious damage'

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Sultan just said no to Finland joining.

As I said couple of post ago, this will put Turkey in a bad position.

Turkey say no, it will not mean anything with Finland and Sweden, the US and EU will either form another defensive alliance (Like AUSUK) to provide with Finland and Sweden security. Or they are going to offer individual defence pact (actually you only need US security guarantee, you don't need the whole NATO) both of which mean the same as Finland and Sweden joining NATO. The only different is, if EU and US choose to form another alliance, then they will left Turkey behind. Turks are not without its enemy in the region, which will mean they will have to come up with the short change. which is increasingly hard for their economy.

On the other hand, the combine Military Might of Sweden and Finland is about twice the size of Turkey, Turks have 400,000 active + 200,000 reserve + 200,000 conscript, Finland itself have 280,000 active and 900,000 reserve force, Sweden have 60,000 Active and about 200,000 reserve/conscript There are no doubt EU and US will favor more toward Sweden and Finland than Turkey.

Would Turkey wanted to left behind because they hated Sweden and Finland stance on PKK? I think saying "no" do more harm to Turkey then Sweden and Finland.
 
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As I said couple of post ago, this will put Turkey in a bad position.

Turkey say no, it will not mean anything with Finland and Sweden, the US and EU will either form another defensive alliance (Like AUSUK) to provide with Finland and Sweden security. Or they are going to offer individual defence pact (actually you only need US security guarantee, you don't need the whole NATO) both of which mean the same as Finland and Sweden joining NATO. The only different is, if EU and US choose to form another alliance, then they will left Turkey behind. Turks are not without its enemy in the region, which will mean they will have to come up with the short change. which is increasingly hard for their economy.

On the other hand, the combine Military Might of Sweden and Finland is about twice the size of Turkey, Turks have 400,000 active + 200,000 reserve + 200,000 conscript, Finland itself have 280,000 active and 900,000 reserve force, Sweden have 60,000 Active and about 200,000 reserve/conscript There are no doubt EU and US will favor more toward Sweden and Finland than Turkey.

Would Turkey wanted to left behind because they hated Sweden and Finland stance on PKK? I think saying "no" do more harm to Turkey then Sweden and Finland.
Sultan is just projecting at this point.
 
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This is complaining........

Complaint is a response of "Dissatisfaction", if I do not satisfy your service, I "Complain" to your manage, and your dissatisfaction is that US is not trustworthy, which basically
Nah, he will vote for.

Think about it, if he veto it, that does not mean anything really, US and Europe will simply move on to either form another defensive pact or have individual pact to Sweden and Finland, both of which would essentially do the same thing as letting Sweden join NATO. The only difference is that if they move on to another Defence Pact, they will leave Turkey behind.

I don't think I need to hint or say EU and US valued Finland and Sweden more than Turkey...…So either way in term of politics, it's either turkey compromise or get left behind, may as well compromise and get something out of it.

Good luck with that new alliance, Turkie will not repeat same mistake like with France and Greece, at least not for free amd small price.
 
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Good luck with that new alliance, Turkie will not repeat same mistake like with France and Greece, at least not for free amd small price.
well, if you look at the overall situation in the area. Turkey will need NATO more now. Otherwise they will be force to make up the number if they loses NATO support. I mean, Israeli, Iran, Syria and Saudi in the area all waiting to pounce. But then now who who can they depend on if they don't want to do it themselves? In the past, the only alternative is Russia, but seeing how Russia fight this and still got entangled in this war would mean they cannot be depended upon in the next few years after they can recover from this, if the Russian can recover. China is not interested in defence pact even if they do, Turkey is probably too far to have any effect.

On the other hand, without NATO. Can turkey do it by themselves?? Their economy is broken at the moment, inflation rate goes as high as 70% in some case, average 12 to 16%. They can't put more effort in their military. Sure, give them 5 or 6 years, maybe then there are some alternative, but Finland Membership is not going to last 5 to 6 years. and right now, Turkey don't really have a choice but to stick with NATO.
 
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well, if you look at the overall situation in the area. Turkey will need NATO more now. Otherwise they will be force to make up the number if they loses NATO support. I mean, Israeli, Iran, Syria and Saudi in the area all waiting to pounce. But then now who who can they depend on if they don't want to do it themselves? In the past, the only alternative is Russia, but seeing how Russia fight this and still got entangled in this war would mean they cannot be depended upon in the next few years after they can recover from this, if the Russian can recover. China is not interested in defence pact even if they do, Turkey is probably too far to have any effect.

On the other hand, without NATO. Can turkey do it by themselves?? Their economy is broken at the moment, inflation rate goes as high as 70% in some case, average 12 to 16%. They can't put more effort in their military. Sure, give them 5 or 6 years, maybe then there are some alternative, but Finland Membership is not going to last 5 to 6 years. and right now, Turkey don't really have a choice but to stick with NATO.
Well, Nato needs them more then ever if you look at the map amd overall conditions.
Economyis shuttering in nato countries as well, they owm paper, opposite block resources and products.
 
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Finland's leaders say they're in favour of rapidly applying for NATO membership, paving the way for a historic expansion of the alliance that could deal a serious blow to Russia as its military struggles with its war in Ukraine.

President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin announced the dramatic move on Thursday.

It means Finland is all but certain to join NATO, though a few steps remain before the application process can begin.

View attachment 843480
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin attends a signing ceremony at Japan's Prime Minister Fumio Kishida official residence in Tokyo, Japan, 11 May 2022. (AP)

Neighbouring Sweden is expected to decide on joining NATO in coming days.

"NATO membership would strengthen Finland's security. As a member of NATO, Finland would strengthen the entire defence alliance," Niinisto and Marin said in a joint statement.

"Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay," they said.

"We hope that the national steps still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days."

Russia reacted to the development with a warning. The Foreign Ministry said in a statement that if Finland joins NATO, it will "inflict serious damage to Russian-Finnish relations as well as stability and security in Northern Europe."

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Finland's President Sauli Niinisto makes a point during a joint press conference with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, at the Presidential Palace in Helsinki, Finland, on Wednesday. (AP)

"Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps of military-technical and other characteristics in order to counter the emerging threats to its national security," the ministry said.

"History will determine why Finland needed to turn its territory into a bulwark of military face-off with Russia while losing independence in making its own decisions."

The ministry's statement follows Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov's comment earlier Thursday that Finland's decision wouldn't help stability and security in Europe. Peskov said Russia's response will depend on NATO's moves to expand its infrastructure closer to the Russian borders.

Previously, the Kremlin had warned of "military and political repercussions" if Sweden and Finland decide to join NATO.

Should they apply, there will be an interim period lasting from when an application has been handed in until all 30 NATO members' parliaments have ratified it.

In NATO member Estonia, which also borders Russia, Prime Minister Kaja Kallas tweeted "history being made by our northern neighbours".

She pledged to support "a rapid accession process" for Finland into NATO.

Finland's announcement came a day after British Prime Minister Boris Johnson visited both Finland and Sweden to sign a military cooperation agreement.

The UK pledged on Wednesday to come to the aid of Sweden and Finland if the two Nordic nations came under attack.

During a joint news conference with Johnson and Niinisto in Helsinki, the Finnish head of state said Moscow could only blame itself should his nation of 5.5 million people become a NATO member.

"You (Russia) caused this. Look at the mirror," Niinisto said pointedly on Wednesday.

On Thursday, Niinisto tweeted that he spoke with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy about Finland's firm support for Ukraine and the country's intention to join NATO. Niinisto said Zelenskyy "expressed his full support for it".

In 2017, Sweden and Finland joined the British-led Joint Expeditionary Force, which is designed to be more flexible and respond more quickly than the larger NATO alliance.

View attachment 843482
Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson and Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin meet prior to a meeting on whether to seek NATO membership in Stockholm, Sweden, on April 13. (Photo: Paul Wennerholm) (AP)

It uses NATO standards and doctrine, so it can operate in conjunction with NATO, the United Nations or other multinational coalitions. Fully operational since 2018, the force has held a number of exercises both independently and in cooperation with NATO.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine on February 24 prompted Finland and Sweden to reconsider their historic tradition of military nonalignment and join the 30-member NATO.

After Moscow launched its attack on Ukraine, public support in the two countries started to quickly shift toward membership in NATO, first in Finland and a bit later in Sweden.

The latest opinion poll conducted by Finnish public broadcaster YLE showed earlier this week that 76 per cent of Finns are in favour of joining NATO, a big change from earlier years when only 20-30 per cent of respondents favoured such military alignment.

Speaking to European Union lawmakers on Thursday, Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto said "the war started by Russia jeopardises the security and stability of the whole of Europe."

RUSSIA ATTACKS UKRAINE​

View attachment 843483

Haavisto said Russia's unpredictable behaviour is a serious concern for Finland, notably Moscow's readiness to wage "high-risk operations" that could lead to many casualties, including among Russians themselves.

Should Finland become a NATO member, it would mean the biggest change in the Nordic country's defense and security policy since World

War II when it fought two lost wars against the Soviet Union. Along with Sweden, Finland joined the European Union in 1995 and has the longest border with Russia out of all the bloc's 27 members.

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde tweeted that Finland's announcement gave an "important message" and Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said that there were "strong messages" from Finland's president and prime minister.

During the Cold War, Finland stayed away from NATO to avoid provoking the Soviet Union, instead opting to remain a neutral buffer between the East and the West while maintaining good relations with Moscow and also with the United States.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg has said the military alliance would welcome Finland and Sweden — both of which have strong, modern militaries — with open arms and expects the accession process to be speedy and smooth.

NATO officials say the Nordic duo's accession process could be done "in a couple of weeks".

The most time consuming part of the procedure — ratification of the country's protocol by the 30 NATO member countries — could even be completed in less time than the four months or so that it took West Germany, Turkey and Greece to join in the 1950s, when there were only 12 members to ratify their applications.

"These are not normal times," one NATO official said this week, discussing the possible applications of Finland and Sweden.

The official was briefing reporters about the accession process on condition that he not be named as no application has been made by the two countries.








Russia is NOT a powerful country. They are a paper tiger. Their military is all talk, nothing more. 7× smaller ukraine has shown this.
 
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Well, Nato needs them more then ever if you look at the map amd overall conditions.
Economyis shuttering in nato countries as well, they owm paper, opposite block resources and products

Would NATO choose Turkey over Finland and Sweden? Seriously, if you think they have to choose between either, you have to be so out of touch to think they will choose Turkey instead of Finland and Sweden.

In term of Defensive power Finland and Sweden brought in a lot of troop, technology and equipment that are vital to NATO, the only reason I can think of NATO would choose Turkey over Finland and Sweden is the access to Black Sea or to make good relation to Islamic country, but then Muslim either like US/NATO or hate them, and the one that like them already on board with or without Turkey and the one that hate them are not going to change with Turkey on board.

The only other way I can think of NATO would need Turkey is the War in Russian now, but then beside the TB-2 drone, which itself have nothing to do with NATO, what does Turkey contribute to NATO effort to help Ukraine? Turkey weren't even sanctioning Russian.....

On the other hand, if you talk about GDP as a factor of defence, then there are no competition. Sweden and Finland are way ahead of Turkey....I have nothing against NATO and some of my friend here on PDF are Turks, and I wish them all the best, but I am here to comment on facts and factors, and I just don't see it that way. Maybe all I just need is some enlightenment? Who knows.

Seriously, I don't see why NATO would want Turkey more than Turkey needed NATO, maybe you can point me to some direction I never thought of??

Sure, NATO counties are going down stream in term of economy, but not in a pace Turkey does, Western country inflation rate are about 6-8% Turkey is double that......
 
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Would NATO choose Turkey over Finland and Sweden? Seriously, if you think they have to choose between either, you have to be so out of touch to think they will choose Turkey instead of Finland and Sweden.

In term of Defensive power Finland and Sweden brought in a lot of troop, technology and equipment that are vital to NATO, the only reason I can think of NATO would choose Turkey over Finland and Sweden is the access to Black Sea or to make good relation to Islamic country, but then Muslim either like US/NATO or hate them, and the one that like them already on board with or without Turkey and the one that hate them are not going to change with Turkey on board.

The only other way I can think of NATO would need Turkey is the War in Russian now, but then beside the TB-2 drone, which itself have nothing to do with NATO, what does Turkey contribute to NATO effort to help Ukraine? Turkey weren't even sanctioning Russian.....

On the other hand, if you talk about GDP as a factor of defence, then there are no competition. Sweden and Finland are way ahead of Turkey....

Seriously, I don't see why NATO would want Turkey more than Turkey needed NATO, maybe you can point me to some direction I never thought of??

Sure, NATO counties are going down stream in term of economy, but not in a pace Turkey does, Western country inflation rate are about 6-8% Turkey is double that......
Seriously asking that? I mean sweden and finland are at momemt woke defunct democracies which live in bubble of comfortable conditions, they will cose more problems in chain of decisioning then they contribute with their gadgets,usa push them in nato to sell them more toys only
Choosing them over Turkie, Usa woud be left with only pkk amd israel as solid allies in middle east and i doubt that think tankers there are that stupid.
And compaining about sanctions i find it as *** move as hungary, greece, germany and france are all more or less same with that even worse as france propose ukraina to give up some land to appease putin, so get of yoir high horse and clean up the house first before pointing fingers elsewhere.
 
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