Fed up with EU, Erdogan says Turkey could join Shanghai bloc

[Attila the Hun]

Turkey is ina position to influence China - by engaging with Beijing Turkey can help to resolve the Uighur issue inside China.

If you can do that with Russia after what it did to Chechens in Grozny I think it would be wise for Turkey to use it's counsel on China. Turkey occupies a critical geostrategic position and would have huge influence on China.

I think it's better to use our energy on other things.
Turks in Romania, Greece, Ukraine, and bunch more countries in the west and all are fine. The issue is only with China it seems.
Russians are more mature, they've had huge empires and know how to deal with native minorities, unlike China.

I am not saying Uighurs are racists. In fact, everyone discriminates everyone else who looks and sounds differently. It is human nature. I am saying the stupid government policy that in effect makes as if Uighurs discriminates against han Chinese. For example, in Xinjiang, when I was there, Uighur criminals were far more lightly punished for the same crime than Chinese criminals. As the result, han Chinese don't trust Uighurs and Uighurs still think they aren't fairly treated. Trust would be a lot easier to achieve if everyone is treated equally in front of the law.

I don't know about the crimes and whatever, you will have to tell me more about it if you want. I just find it hard to believe the Uighurs are racists towards Chinese Han.

Just saying what binds you to Central Asians is mostly culture -- nothing wrong loving people who are culturally similar.

The blood relations we have with them means nothing, as they wouldn't think twice to kill us now or in the past.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I think it's better to use our energy on other things.
Turks in Romania, Greece, Ukraine, and bunch more countries in the west and all are fine. The issue is only with China it seems.

So you only care about Turkics in other countries, and have chosen to abandon your Uyghur brothers?

 

[TaiShang]

Turkey is ina position to influence China - by engaging with Beijing Turkey can help to resolve the Uighur issue inside China.

But there is no Uighur issue inside China. There is limited extremism. But, if you look at the absolute numbers, China's Xinjiang is ten times better developed than Turkey's Kurdistan.

As for solving "issues" inside a sovereign nation, perhaps others can solve the "Kurdish" issue inside Turkey. But China will not mind their own business as it will not let a country led by a ethno-religious extremist to "solve" its internal affairs.

It is exactly this mentality that it is not easy to get along with countries which have no respect for sovereignty. It is the respect for sovereignty that keeps China-Pakistan relations at this strategic level.

***

If, let's say, the SCO became an institution based on culture-ethnic ties, even that would not save Turkey because Turkey is not ethnically Central Asian, let alone East Asian. They are much closer to the Arabs and Iranians after hundreds of years of interaction.

But, the SCO has never regarded ethnic ties or cultural ties as a benchmark. What matters is the strategic value a membership would bring.

And I argue that Turkey's potential membership brings much less assets that it would take away.

Perhaps, in the future, under a more realistic and less sectarian left wing government foreign policy, Turkey becomes a meaningful addition. Today, Turkey is farther from the SCO than it was 15 years ago.

In the end, we are all providing personal insights. The decision will be made in Beijing.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Turkey is ina position to influence China - by engaging with Beijing Turkey can help to resolve the Uighur issue inside China.

If you can do that with Russia after what it did to Chechens in Grozny I think it would be wise for Turkey to use it's counsel on China. Turkey occupies a critical geostrategic position and would have huge influence on China.

I personally believe that China is more keen to work together with Turkey than Russia is. Chinese aren't afraid of hyperxenesis. They are more pragmatic than Russians.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Russians are more mature

No. They have had issues with Chechens. Their handling of Grozny was gar from 'mature' so I would humbly disagree with you there. I am not excusing the Chinese either for their clamping of the Uighurs. I am not some dopey person who falls for songs of praise.

The reality is there is a Uighur problem inside China. Thus far however the Chinese handling has been crude however not as dcevastatingly crude as Russian handling of the Chechens. I need not introduce you to horrors of Grozny because chances are you will already know.

What I am saying is China is on the road to be a mother*f*ucket hyperpower such as we have never seen in history. A visit to Hong Kong or Shanghai is a mirror to where China is heading. Given this reality Turkey can use it's very significant leverage on Chinese to resolve the Uighur issue by using

han Chinese don't trust Uighurs

You must undersyand that Uighur's are the most peripheral people within the Chinese domain - that means there always was going to be problems. They are most unlike the Han Chinese compared to any other ethnic group inside China. Since China is heading to be a world power the uighur issue offers Chinese a opportunity to chart a way that handles diversity in a mature manner - after all China is going to be dealing with peoples from all over the world. The Uighur's offers China a bridge into the Turkic world and line to Turkey. A country that is vital to whoever wants to dominate Euro-Asia landmass.

Don't please do what Pakistani's have fallen into - narrow minded petty village thinking. china is going to be global so think global.

 

[Attila the Hun]

So you only care about Turkics in other countries, and have chosen to abandon your Uyghur brothers?

Of course I care for the Uyghurs. Your government is doing their best to cause trouble between us,
It must be a NATO thing? Not too sure.

that is why i said, we should maybe focus our energy elsewhere.

If Chinese people/Government don't want friendship with us,what can we do about it? We should focus on others instead.. Why waste our time on China when other nations are waiting for cooperation.

 

[Rasengan]

Once China can accept Uighurs are human and stop being racist towards them, we can be their ally. But, we are not desperate for it.
It's better to stay friendly with Russia, they host a lot of Turks, and are treated better. We should obviously concentrate on Central Asia.

I have traveled to China quite extensively and a number of things mentioned by the western media are false. Uighur Muslims are allowed to fast during Ramadan, however, they are extremely poor and the Government should integrate them better into society. When I was in Chengdu in a Uighur restaurant the waiter could only speak basic Mandarin with my friend. It's one of the main reason why CPEC in the future will be important for western China. Trade will allow this region to prosper and all communities will benefit.

There are some policies implemented by the CCP Government that I personally don't agree with. For example the special privileges in education for minorities needs to go because it's creating resentment in the communities. Furthermore, Companies don't employ Uighur's because they don't feel they are qualified enough. This again is linked to the education policies of the minority community. Xinjiang is blessed with resources yet only a few people have benefited, which needs to change in the future. Xinjiang production and construction corps needs to hire more Uighur people.

However, I can also criticize the Uighur community. Forget about Han Chinese the Uighur's are still hostile to Hui Muslims. They have to integrate into society and if the Government want to develop the land then they should relocate to housing schemes provided by the Government. Some of these Uighur attacks are appalling. Attacking innocent people with knifes does not make you a Muslim or a decent human being. Most of the policemen they attack are Uighur themselves. The point is China and Turkey must develop a strong friendly relationship which could stabilize the region.

 

[greenwood]

But there is no Uighur issue inside China. There is limited extremism. But, if you look at the absolute numbers, China's Xinjiang is ten times better developed than Turkey's Kurdistan.

As for solving "issues" inside a sovereign nation, perhaps others can solve the "Kurdish" issue inside Turkey. But China will not mind their own business as it will not let a country led by a ethno-religious extremist to "solve" its internal affairs.

It is exactly this mentality that it is not easy to get along with countries which have no respect for sovereignty. It is the respect for sovereignty that keeps China-Pakistan relations at this strategic level.

Good post.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Of course I care for the Uyghurs. Your government is doing their best to cause trouble between us,
It must be a NATO thing? Not too sure.

that is why i said, we should maybe focus our energy elsewhere.

If Chinese people/Government don't want friendship with us,what can we do about it? We should focus on others instead.. Why waste our time on China when other nations are waiting for cooperation.

Hmm that must be why Erdogan is asking us to be let into the SCO.

that is why i said, we should maybe focus our energy elsewhere.

Turkey has the capability to reduce tensions in Xinjiang if they want to help their Uyghur brothers live better lives. If Turkey chooses to abandon the Uyghurs (when they are capable of helping) then that's too bad.

You keep going on about how blood is thicker than water, but when your blood brothers need help you say no?

 

[Mamluk]

The reality is there is a Uighur problem inside China. Thus far however the Chinese handling has been crude however not as dcevastatingly crude as Russian handling of the Chechens. I need not introduce you to horrors of Grozny because chances are you will already know.

It's not as much of a big issue as the media makes it out to be.

Han and Uighurs could get along really well if it wasn't for a few foreign funded extremists trying to incite inter-ethnic riots (and most of the victims are generally Han).

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But there is no Uighur issue inside China

I have never been to Uighur areas so I will go along with what you say - however what matters more is perception. Not my perception but the perception that appears to have gained traction in Turkey. If the Uighur's situation is as good as it is then it falls on the Chinese to try even harder to change the perception with the Turks. Like I said Turkey is a geostrategic fulcrum. Having Turkey in your ambit would be worth a lot in a game of chess to gain ascendancy on the world stage.

Therefore Chinese/turks really need to resolve this issue (perception?) or others with axe to grind will harvest the anger that ensues over the Uighurs amongst the Turks who are a very passionate people with referance to the Turan region.

 

[Attila the Hun]

No. They have had issues with Chechens. Their handling of Grozny was gar from 'mature' so I would humbly disagree with you there. I am not excusing the Chinese either for their clamping of the Uighurs. I am not some dopey person who falls for songs of praise.

The reality is there is a Uighur problem inside China. Thus far however the Chinese handling has been crude however not as dcevastatingly crude as Russian handling of the Chechens. I need not introduce you to horrors of Grozny because chances are you will already know.

What I am saying is China is on the road to be a mother*f*ucket hyperpower such as we have never seen in history. A visit to Hong Kong or Shanghai is a mirror to where China is heading. Given this reality Turkey can use it's very significant leverage on Chinese to resolve the Uighur issue by using


You must undersyand that Uighur's are the most peripheral people within the Chinese domain - that means there always was going to be problems. They are most unlike the Han Chinese compared to any other ethnic group inside China. Since China is heading to be a world power the uighur issue offers Chinese a opportunity to chart a way that handles diversity in a mature manner - after all China is going to be dealing with peoples from all over the world. The Uighur's offers China a bridge into the Turkic world and line to Turkey. A country that is vital to whoever wants to dominate Euro-Asia landmass.

Don't please do what Pakistani's have fallen into - narrow minded petty village thinking. china is going to be global so think global.

Russians are dealing with Turkic people a whole lot better. Now the Chinese are not so bad, but their government is doing their best to scare the population, that is what I cannot trust.
Now, if the Chinese government has drilled in the heads that Uighurs are terrorists, what can Turkey do to stop this? I doubt not much.
Maybe the Chinese don't want any friendship between us? If that is the case, we should not waste our time on this country.
Russian population don't seem to have this issue, as for Chechens, yes, they can do more.

 

[TaiShang]

A country that is vital to whoever wants to dominate Euro-Asia landmass.

You are talking in abstract which does not fit the ground reality.

In fact, if you factually check the data regarding the OBOR investment and cooperation so far, Turkey has been entirely avoided and this did nothing in terms of China's Eurasian expansion. We already have over 40 direct rail linkages and tens of road and maritime linkages all the way to Western Europe.

Turkey's absence has not been felt. China avoided Turkey for a reason. This does not mean Turkey will be kept entirely out. But, it will never have a "central bridge" position. That title goes to Central Asian republics and Russia.

Whoever is going to dominate Eurasia, he has to start with Central Asia, and by extension, Russia. And China does just like that. That's the optimum and Turkey offers no value and is currently extremely unstable and unsafe.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Maybe the Chinese don't want any friendship between us? If that is the case, we should not waste our time on this country.

You say that, but the Turkish government is moving towards China as we speak. Asking for an SCO seat is just another thing.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Hmm that must be why Erdogan is asking us to be let into the SCO.



Turkey has the capability to reduce tensions in Xinjiang if they want to help their Uyghur brothers live better lives. If Turkey chooses to abandon the Uyghurs (when they are capable of helping) then that's too bad.

You keep going on about how blood is thicker than water, but when your blood brothers need help you say no?

Erdogan says a lot of things.

I never said we should abandon Uygurs, they are our brothers, i and most Turks love them.
I am talking about Chinese Government spreading this anti-Uygur nonsense is not going to help anyone.
We have no issues with Kurds, they all live peacefully side-by-side with us, we just have issues with communist PKK terrorists, their members are mostly from Iran, Iraq, Syria etc