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Fed up with EU, Erdogan says Turkey could join Shanghai bloc

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You are talking in future tense, have you noticed? The reality on the ground says otherwise.

Ethno-sectarianism does not work inside Turkey. It has failed you in Syria (despite that you put lots of money and effort to the sectarian war in that country). It is failing you in Iraq.

How do you even remotely anticipate they it will work in Central Asia?

But it is exactly this mentality that makes Turkey a liability, rather than an asset inside the SCO dominated by China.

Hence, you are now where you factually should exactly belong to: Economically, Europe; politically, the Middle East; and culturally, the Gulf.


I beg to disagree. SCO itself comprised of three major civilisations - China, Russia and CAR. Turkey is culturally linked to CAR, not Middle East, so it's quite natural for them to be seamlessly merged with SCO. In fact even China and Russia are quite plural, say many Chinese non-Han ethnic groups are Muslim, Mongolian and of CAR heritage.

China and Turkey might have differences, however these are not vital to survival of both nations in the long, more dialogue will help, and SCO maybe a good platform to start with.
 
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This is becoming a trollfest , will just say this before i leave.
Central Asians should have close relations with China , this is good for them, and the region.

But, if you keep bringing up ETIM, Uighurs, Syria and Turkey , you are going to lose them , and Russia will be the clear winner.

Your choice.
 
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This is becoming a trollfest , will just say this before i leave.
Central Asians should have close relations with China , this is good for them, and the region.

But, if you keep bringing up ETIM, Uighurs, Syria and Turkey , you are going to lose them , and Russia will be the clear winner.

Your choice.


From China's strategic perspective, geopolitical opponent is only the west, not ASEAN, not Turkey, not India. There are pending bilateral issues yet to be solved, no easy solution but it always help if there is a good start, say SCO or whatever platform that comes in handy.

Moreover, compared to geo-political rhetoric, there are more urgent geo-economic challenges lying right ahead. Say rationalization of industrial capacity, power grids, maritime transportation network (sea ports, sea routes), international reserve currency, etc. For example, China State Grid is building Asia Super Grid (ASG), Mediterranean power network, Turkey could be a valuable partner to these schemes. And how about de-dollarized trade, both merchandise and capital? ICT infra and cyberspace? Beidou and space co-op? Free cross-border FDI, M&A for trillions of sovereign wealth funds? How about new energy to displace dollar-denominated petrol? I can list at least a dozen other infra, tech or financial schemes with which Turkey can be integrated, perhaps Erdogan administration envisions these as well.


P.S.: Different views are allowed, even encouraged, so civilized debate most welcome, mods will react to troll reports.
 
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I beg to disagree. SCO itself comprised of three major civilisations - China, Russia and CAR. Turkey is culturally linked to CAR, not Middle East, so it's quite natural for them to be seamlessly merged with SCO. In fact even China and Russia are quite plural, say many Chinese non-Han ethnic groups are Muslim, Mongolian and of CAR heritage.

China and Turkey might have differences, however these are not vital to survival of both nations in the long, more dialogue will help, and SCO maybe a good platform to start with.


Turkey is not culturally linked to the Central Asia as strongly as imagined. A travel across the major Turkish cities like Istanbul will defy the perception of its being a West Asian nation, let alone Central Asian. A lot seem to have changed in Turkey, along with culture over the past several decades.

They can still argue very early historical roots, but, this means little. Siberians may also claim historical roots with American Indians. But, what do they have in common? Besides, since when ethno-culturalism became a benchmark for the SCO membership status?

Being seamlessly merged into the region would mostly mean rising ethno-sectarianism, which does not bode well for the region. Perhaps the most striking difference is the secularism inherent in the culture in East Asia, which spreads though the Central Asia by means of institutions like the SCO, business and people to people contact.

Definitely, China and Russia have various groups of peoples; but, they are part of the larger social fabric, in most cases. The moment they are not capable of it is the time we have problems.

I agree that China would not dislodge Turkey altogether, or any other country, for that matter. But, it also cannot make a long-term partner with Turkey. In my view, the SCO membership would be a very aggressive, radical move. Perhaps, before that, Turkey needs to be socialized into less comprehensive frameworks and be assessed in terms of performance.

Turkey's sectarian interventionism in its south is a very concrete evidence for strategic analysts and decision makers; they are real. One cannot simply brush that aside and pretend that Turkey inside the SCO would be a different actor. They need to be vetted outside the SCO framework, first. Then, slowly be socialized into the more Asian frameworks. Otherwise, the SCO will be much weaker, not stronger, because, currently Turkey represents the three dangers that the SCO was founded to fight against, in the first place.

Accepting Turkey in its present capacity would be a direct confrontation with the SCO's very fundamentals.

I do not argue about a contentious relationship. I propose a realistic approach.
 
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Turkey is not culturally linked to the Central Asia as strongly as imagined. A travel across the major Turkish cities like Istanbul will defy the perception of its being a West Asian nation, let alone Central Asian. A lot seem to have changed in Turkey, along with culture over the past several decades.

They can still argue very early historical roots, but, this means little. Siberians may also claim historical roots with American Indians. But, what do they have in common? Besides, since when ethno-culturalism became a benchmark for the SCO membership status?

Being seamlessly merged into the region would mostly mean rising ethno-sectarianism, which does not bode well for the region. Perhaps the most striking difference is the secularism inherent in the culture in East Asia, which spreads though the Central Asia by means of institutions like the SCO, business and people to people contact.

Definitely, China and Russia have various groups of peoples; but, they are part of the larger social fabric, in most cases. The moment they are not capable of it is the time we have problems.

I agree that China would not dislodge Turkey altogether, or any other country, for that matter. But, it also cannot make a long-term partner with Turkey. In my view, the SCO membership would be a very aggressive, radical move. Perhaps, before that, Turkey needs to be socialized into less comprehensive frameworks and be assessed in terms of performance.

Turkey's sectarian interventionism in its south is a very concrete evidence for strategic analysts and decision makers; they are real. One cannot simply brush that aside and pretend that Turkey inside the SCO would be a different actor. They need to be vetted outside the SCO framework, first. Then, slowly be socialized into the more Asian frameworks. Otherwise, the SCO will be much weaker, not stronger, because, currently Turkey represents the three dangers that the SCO was founded to fight against, in the first place.

Accepting Turkey in its present capacity would be a direct confrontation with the SCO's very fundamentals.

I do not argue about a contentious relationship. I propose a realistic approach.


Fair analysis, I agree mostly except part of it.

1) Yes, obviously Turkey aspires to join the West. Has been, will always be.

2) No, Turkey never has any aspiration to join the East. But the cruel hard reality now is that they are being rejected by EU (for equally obvious reasons), so most people will calm down, take the "neutral" self-comfort stance, with a hope that one day they will still be accepted. It's only their administration, the pragmatic elites, who sees opportunities in SCO, be that bandwagoning for short-term gains, or use SCO as long-term bargaining chip for their ultimate goal - western acceptance.

3) Also note, their loyal membership in US-led NATO is a testimony on their long-term goal, and NATO is against Russian interests, and potentially Chinese interests as well.​

Knowing these, there will be zero geo-political alignment between Turkey with the East. What China should do?

Cold pragmatism: build dialogue with Turkey, in business-oriented fashion. As I have mentioned, there are dozens of regional (even global) schemes that China can invite Turkey to play along, through whatever platforms that come in handy, SCO included.

Why not SCO? It's not a political union, just look at the expanded membership, perhaps just a bit better than those useless group photo sessions like BRICS, APEC. China might as well use it for geo-economic purposes for now, and worry about geo-strategic design later.​
 
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Turkey has gone from a secular liberal country to a regressive one under Mr Erdogan.
Mr Erdogan wants turkey to be closer to Arab country so its obvious that it will distance itself from Europe and European values.
 
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It sounds like you want your cake and eat it too when the decision is abundantly clear: go West or go East, but you can't have both. The first decision to make is to exit NATO. Will Erdogan do it? Will the Turkish defense establishment let him do it?
So I have told you before, Turkey to buy China's WS-2 and HQ-9, because they do not want to rely on NATO in the field of defense.
 
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@TaiShang valid analysis of as-is situation... What lies over the Horizons?


The Core of Circle is secured by the Three Rims... First Circle is of what always was and still is. And of course Shall BE.

Second Circle is of affinity, loyality and mutual dependence.

Third Circle is of maintinaing Harmony in the First and Order in the Second.

Wtih detached View Sight becomes Clear... Perception comes from Stillness.

Turkey Will/Must be in SCO...should the EU accept them then why not. However, this shall NEVER happen.


Over to you my friend... always good indulgence to read your views.
 
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They all love Uighurs too. lol
You mean like this, "LOL"?

Turk Mobs attack Chinese restaurants in Istanbul and beat up Uighur and Turkmen employees
https://defence.pk/threads/turk-mob...d-beat-up-uighur-and-turkmen-employees.383869

There were no Chinese/Eastern Asians involved or hurt, as Both Restaurants were Owned by Turks....The 1st one had Turkmen employees and 2nd had Uighur employees. Only Turks, Turkmen and Uighurs were hurt by those Turk racists. Now, That is burning irony LOL.
 
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Putin hearing to Erdogan? If we know Putin, he is eagerly awaiting to give back something to Turkey.

I think Turkey should stay neutral instead of trying to join one group and another.
 
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You mean like this, "LOL"?

Turk Mobs attack Chinese restaurants in Istanbul and beat up Uighur and Turkmen employees
https://defence.pk/threads/turk-mob...d-beat-up-uighur-and-turkmen-employees.383869

There were no Chinese/Eastern Asians involved or hurt, as Both Restaurants were Owned by Turks....The 1st one had Turkmen employees and 2nd had Uighur employees. Only Turks, Turkmen and Uighurs were hurt by those Turk racists. Now, That is burning irony LOL.
Why is this trollish post not deleted? @mods
 
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WTF? Since when is posting news FACTS, trolling????
You are trolling!
 
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