Fed up with EU, Erdogan says Turkey could join Shanghai bloc

[Chinese-Dragon]

Erdogan says a lot of things.

I never said we should abandon Uygurs, they are our brothers, i and most Turks love them.
I am talking about Chinese Government spreading this anti-Uygur nonsense is not going to help anyone.
We have no issues with Kurds, they all live peacefully side-by-side with us, we just have issues with communist PKK terrorists, their members are mostly from Iran, Iraq, Syria etc

If you really care about your blood brothers as you say, then help to reduce the tensions in Xinjiang. That will have a direct positive impact on their livelihood and living standards.

You have the capability to help your blood brothers, yet you want to turn around and say NO. You are choosing not to help, even though you easily could.

 

[Attila the Hun]

You say that, but the Turkish government is moving towards China as we speak. Asking for an SCO seat is just another thing.

We will see I suppose. I don't want fights between us, i am just concern with what Chinese members on here say.
Turkey offers nothing to Central Asia? I just left a lot of quotes from Central Asian leaders that say how much they love Turks of Turkey, Ataturk and their support for us against Armenians.
Oh and beating up Uyghurs thinking they are Chinese lol This is another nonsense. we get many Chinese tourists and all are fine.

If you really care about your blood brothers as you say, then help to reduce the tensions in Xinjiang. That will have a direct positive impact on their livelihood and living standards.

You have the capability to help your blood brothers, yet you want to turn around and say NO. You are choosing not to help, even though you easily could.

I am talking about members on this thread saying we have no closeness with Uyghurs or Central Asians.
If Chinese believe such nonsense, what can we do to help?

 

[艹艹艹]

China's ethnic problems are solved by the Chinese people themselves, and Absolutely not allow other countries to interfere.
We are against terrorism separatism and extremism. In China must abide by the laws and policies of the state.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

We will see I suppose. I don't want fights between us, i am just concern with what Chinese members on here say.
Turkey offers nothing to Central Asia? I just left a lot of quotes from Central Asian leaders that say how much they love Turks of Turkey, Ataturk and their support for us against Armenians.
Oh and beating up Uyghurs thinking they are Chinese lol This is another nonsense. we get many Chinese tourists and all are fine.

This is an anonymous internet forum, people are going to give a lot of wacky opinions on all sorts of things.

The important thing is that the Chinese and Turkish governments are moving towards much stronger cooperation with each other. And I personally feel that this is a very good thing.

I don't think there is any need for conflict on the Uyghur issue. Both sides want the Uyghurs to live happy and productive lives. Regarding the Kurds, that is Turkey's own internal affairs and nothing to do with us. China's official policy is non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries.

 

[TaiShang]

I have never been to Uighur areas so I will go along with what you say - however what matters more is perception. Not my perception but the perception that apears to have gained traction in Turkey.

That's the gist of the problem, actually. Turkey seems to have swayed from its realist diplomacy over the years into a more interventionist mode. Realistically, Turkey perception of the Uighurs is of no importance to China. But, China's diplomatic perception of Turkey as a rogue interventionist state remains. I know this because I have interacted with officials from all levels.

If Turks really care about perception, they need to start with the Kurdish people of Turkey. Their southeast areas look no better than Grozny in 1996.

If the uighur's situation is as good as it is then it falls on the Chinese to try even harder to change the perception with the Turks.

In the first place, there is no such need to change the perceptions of a certain country. China does it in general as a global perception effort, but, a tailor-made effort for Turkey would overestimate Turkey's significance on China's strategic radar.

Turkey is not that significant. China believes that Turkey's assumed "ties" are arbitrary, unrealistic and scientifically and historically incorrect. Korean's perception of Korean Chinese would matter, to some degree within sovereignty limits, but Turkey perception of the Uighur Chinese would not and does not really matter.

Like I said Turkey is a geostrategic fulcrum. Having Turkey in your ambit would be worth a lot in a game of chess to gain ascendancy on the world stage.

Turkey is a very peripheral country on China's strategic calculations. Hence, China's effort to concentrate on its near Confucius periphery, and then Central Asia and Russia, and eventually Europe, in Eurasia. All the Belt and Road initiatives and work done so far point to that direction.

That's the reality and, obviously, China views Turkey differently as a strategic card than other countries. I see Pakistan to be also not so idealist. For example, it, very correctly, avoided taking part in the Saudi-led Army while Turkey jumped right into it. Hence, Pakistan and Turkey also do not see eye to eye all the time. This is what makes Pakistan a strategic partner: Its realism.

Therefore Chinese/turks really need to resolve this issue (perception?) or others with axe to grind will harvest the anger that ensues over the Uighurs amongst the Turks who are a very passionate people with referance to the Turan region

We do not have any consideration toward romantic imperial ideas, including Turan or the British Crown. They are dead, of past relevance, and of zero implications.

Uighurs are fine. They are being integrated faster than ever into the secular life of the nation. Those who are problematic are small in number. In fact, in Xinjiang province, Uighurs are the ethnic dominant group, but their overall size is less than half of the 20 million population.

Xinjiang will not become a bridge between Turkey and China. It is not. In fact, it is becoming a central OBOR hub between China and Central Asia-Europe. Turkey is entirely avoided for some reason.

 

[WSHH]

You know nothing then. please stay out of this topic. and let people that know their cultures of these nations discuss properly.

LOL I present facts, and you Dare accuse me of not knowing anything, stop trolling! You don't know anything, because you simply failed at proving any counter source. The it ain't true because I cannot accept the facts - ain't a legitimate argument! it Fails EPIC Hard.

Worse, after you cannot disprove the presented facts, you DARE to stoop so LOW and resort to throwing insulting Flames, such as others being "retarded", when its Proof and facts from the sources provided! So who is "retarded" now...? Your desperate strawman tactics and Ad hominem insults - pathetically trying to insult the messenger, when you fail at disproving the facts - shows you concede defeat, You fail so hard, its funny, Stop trolling!

I was civil and POLITE with YOU, up and till that POINT! (Obviously I ain't gonna be polite with you too, now)
People throw Flame tantrums and insults, when they cannot muster any counter arguments and proof, are truly "retarded" themselves!

Stop trolling and take your own advice! remove yourself from this thread where adults are talking.
I am staying here, and you Cannot Stop me.

 

[greenwood]

You are talking in abstract which does not fit the ground reality.

In fact, if you factually check the data regarding the OBOR investment and cooperation so far, Turkey has been entirely avoided and this did nothing in terms of China's Eurasian expansion. We already have over 40 direct rail linkages and tens of road and maritime linkages all the way to Western Europe.

Turkey's absence has not been felt. China avoided Turkey for a reason. This does not mean Turkey will be kept entirely out. But, it will never have a "central bridge" position. That title goes to Central Asian republics and Russia.

However is going to dominate Eurasia, he has to start with Central Asia, and by extension, Russia. And China does just like that. That's the optimum and Turkey offers no value and is currently extremely unstable and unsafe.

Turkish pot soup is good. lol

 

[Attila the Hun]

This is an anonymous internet forum, people are going to give a lot of wacky opinions on all sorts of things.

The important thing is that the Chinese and Turkish governments are moving towards much stronger cooperation with each other. And I personally feel that this is a very good thing.

I don't think there is any need for conflict on the Uyghur issue. Both sides want the Uyghurs to live happy and productive lives. Regarding the Kurds, that is Turkey's own internal affairs and nothing to do with us.

The Uyghurs will be fine, I have hope this will all be resolved.
I hope we invest more in Xinjiang and help them become more prosperous. Like the rest of China.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You are talking in abstract which does not fit the ground reality.

Most of us here are talking abstract terms - I doubt very much any of us have actually travelled in and studied each region that we discuss - or for that matter carried out intense field studies.

Going back to the subject in hand I assure you Anotolia is critical geographic fulcrum - why else do you think American's put up with Erogan's rants and his tirades against the godfathers of Americas - the Israeli's? Us accomodates Turkey because of the Anatolian peninsula and it's crucial geostrategic value. Boshporus Straits/Black sea effectively places a monopoly over Ukraine, Southern Russia, Caucasus region. In addition it overshadows the Eastern Meditearnean region including levant and even enables oversight over Suez canal. In addition it confers shadow over Balkans. You must not know your geography if you don't understand the placing of Turkey.

The reason China has pushed overland toward Russia is because Turkey has been in the American camp - you know Turkey provides the eastern flank of NATO. If Turkey finds herself straying from the Western camp China needs to grab Turkey with both hands - from a strategic perspective Turkey is a far bigger catch then Pakistan.

Russia, don't overestimate them. Over time they could decide to make accomodation with the West. That is when having Turkey ion your side will become crucial. Do not forget Russian/ Western hostility has no real substance and is similar to German/Western hostility before 1940s. There is no deep idealogical gulf between Russia and the West. There is just this childish thing about wop pr*ck is bigger. The Russian wit their history don't want to play second fiddle to US. However that could change. Putin is not going to be there forever. if a new Russian leader decides to be more accomodating and the America's show some slack Russia could end up finding a place amongsat the Western political order.

Something to keep in mind.

 

[TaiShang]

I don't think there is any need for conflict on the Uyghur issue. Both sides want the Uyghurs to live happy and productive lives. Regarding the Kurds, that is Turkey's own internal affairs and nothing to do with us. China's official policy is non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries.

And this should be mutual. If China's internal affairs are breached, then they will see their own internal affairs to be breached. So, we need to stop the nonsense urge of pleasing Turks' feelings toward the Uighur citizens of China.

Most of us here are talking abstract terms - I doubt very much any of us have actually travelled in and studied each region that we discuss - or for that matter carried out intense field studies.

In fact I have travelled and I am part of an OBOR research team. So, I know first hand where China's Eurasian drive is heading to. Definitely not towards Turkey.

No single financial or OBOR-related investment agreement was signed with Turkey. With Central Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe, almost every day a new deal is signed. In fact, in the institution I work with, we have a big data center for this. One of the major OBOR related big data institutions.

 

[Attila the Hun]

LOl i present facst, and you Dare accuse me of not knowing anything, stop trolling! You don't know anything, because you simply failed at proving any counter source. The it ain't true because I cannot accept the facts - ain't a legitimate argument! it Fails EPIC Hard.

Worse, after you cannot disprove the presented facts, you DARE to stoop so LOW and resort to throwing insulting Flames, such as others being "retarded", when its Proof and facts from the sources provided! So who is "retarded" now...? You are the Retard! Your desperate strawman tactics and Ad hominem insults - pathetically trying to insult the messenger, when you fail at disproving the facts - shows you concede defeat, You fail so hard, its funny, Stop trolling!

I was civil and POLITE with YOU, up and till that POINT! (Obviously I ain't gonna be polite with you too, now)
People throw Flame tantrums and insults, when they cannot muster any counter arguments and proof, are truly "retarded" themselves!

Stop trolling and take your own advice! remove yourself from this thread where adults are talking.
I am staying here, and you Cannot Stop me.

You are just in here to cause trouble between Turks and Chinese. That is fine. If the moderators want us to hate each other, I am fine with this too.
If you want to believe Turks are racists to Kazaks then good for you. You believe what you want to believe.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

In fact I have travelled and I am part of an OBOR research team.

Very good.

You are just in here to cause trouble between Turks and Chinese.

Don't fall for it, man.

*Fact - Turkey has real historical, cultural connection with Central Asia. This region is going to play a vital role in Chinese road to economic hyperpower. Therefore Turkey/China will have every reason to engage and arrive at a mutally beneficial position. I am sure Ankara and Beijing are working on this.

 

[艹艹艹]

It seems that the Turks have been trying to interfere in China's Xinjiang.
Turkey would like to build a new Osman Empire, we have to be careful.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Very good.

Don't fall for it, man.

This is what I mean, best we focus on other nations, now I know Pakistan like China, you are neighbours, you have to get on well and a bunch of other reasons.
Same way we have to be somewhat friendly with Europeans. Americans or whatever.
I say we focus on Russia a lot more,

 

[TaiShang]

Going back to the subject in hand I assure you Anotolia is critical geographic fulcrum - why else do you think American's put up with Erogan's rants and his tirades against the godfathers of Americas - the Israeli's? Us accomodates Turkey because of the Anatolian peninsula and it's crucial geostrategic value. Boshporus Straits/Black sea effectively places a monopoly over Ukraine, Southern Russia, Caucasus region. In addition it overshadows the Eastern Meditearnean region including levant and even enables oversight over Suez canal. In addition it confers shadow over Balkans. You must not know your geography if you don't understand the placing of Turkey.

That's US choice, dating back to the anti-Communist encirclement.

China obviously thinks differently and there are numerous routes that China is establishing linkages with all of Eurasia while by-passing Turkey. It is the ground reality and it won't be the first time China defies conventional wisdom.

The reason China has pushed overland toward Russia is because Turkey has been in the American camp - you know Turkey provides the eastern flank of NATO. If Turkey finds herself straying from the Western camp China needs to grab Turkey with both hands - from a strategic perspective Turkey is a far bigger catch then Pakistan.

Under those new conditions, certainly, new strategic links would be established with Turkey. I do not see China to be ideologically frozen in time. Definitely, but, as I said in my earlier posts, China will wait and see to ensure Turkey really has changed in terms of foreign policy. Currently, no such sign except some on the plane talk by a President who is known to talk too much.

I know the leftist opposition in Turkey during their election time promised a policy to link Turkey to practically China's OBOR. But they eventually lost and Turkey is where it is now.

Russia, don't overestimate them. Over time they could decide to make accomodation with the West. That is when having Turkey ion your side will become crucial. Do not forget Russian/ Western hostility has no real substance and is similar to German/Western hostility before 1940s. There is no deep idealogical gulf between Russia and the West. There is just this childish thing about wop pr*ck is bigger. The Russian wit their history don't want to play second fiddle to US. However that could change. Putin is not going to be there forever. if a new Russian leader decides to be more accomodating and the America's show some slack Russia could end up finding a place amongsat the Western political order.

We believe that the chance for Turkey to stab in the back on behalf of the US or the Gulf (from which they get most of their finance to back up their economy) is much much larger than Russia doing so. Hence, we even decided to integrate the OBOR and EEU. There is no going back.

Besides, our ideologies and secularism also pretty much match.