Fatal crash highlights the Chinese Air Force's flaws - 3 Dead

[gambit]

So I understand keeping secret.

For example you say PLA may not have provided good training on one particular engine. This is may be. And if they keep things secret, how can we say this could be true? Yes I agree it is a may be training failure. But then also can be maybe pilot error. Or may be can be low quality engine exported from Russia. May be intentional damage by some angry person in China or in Russia. May be accidental damage. May be bird. May be software error. May be God. May be didn't happen at all and all just a media trick. All are may bes and must bes in some different people's mind.

If you accept secrets and allowed all these 'maybes', then you have no cause to criticize the SCMP article. In principle, that you published your 'maybes' on this forum is no different than SCMP published its opinion on its homepage. The lack of transparency by the PLA made possible YOUR 'maybes', not just SCMP's 'maybes'.

 

[serenity]

If you accept secrets and allowed all these 'maybes', then you have no cause to criticize the SCMP article. In principle, that you published your 'maybes' on this forum is no different than SCMP published its opinion on its homepage. The lack of transparency by the PLA made possible YOUR 'maybes', not just SCMP's 'maybes'.

No I was using those examples to show why it's not right to assume maybes. My opinion and SCMP is different. They are not presenting these things as opinion. I am and I am doing ridiculous opinions like earth is flat to show why opinions are not necessarily true. SCMP says this like it's fact and not opinions. So there is the difference there.

Lack of transparency from PLA means we are only have maybes but SCMP pretends their maybe is a must be. That's the difference. I don't care about thinking about maybes but I do want to use the idea to make the point more understandable.

But I don't really understand your post here. What maybes am I allowing? The ridiculous list I'm using to give example? Everything is secret. We don't know F-22's range. That's secret. Everyone accepts some things are secrets. But you are wrong when you say that my acceptance of secrets from PLA allows for these maybes and then because of this somehow SCMP's own maybes are okay due to PLA secrecy. Of course! My acceptance of USAF secret allows for a maybe F-22 has 3000km range. So what? Why can't I criticize the article because of this secret acceptance? Because you think they offer an opinion? Well I think that's fair. Maybe my English is not good enough to realize the article is opinion. But it's not very clear and seemed like they are writing and talking about things they have no idea about. This isn't new for SCMP. They seem to swing directions all the time. I think this is where the problem is. Maybe it's better if we ignore all this and just only consider the facts by themselves. If SCMP is saying their uneducated opinion, it will be no more true than anyone's opinion so it's basically worthless.

 

[ozranger]

Fatal crash highlights Chinese air force’s flaws, with drill and equipment problems implicated in deaths of three, including pilot who flew in National Day military parade

• The deaths of three airmen in a helicopter crash and a second accident days later point to problems with training and equipment
• The crashes happened within a span of 10 days, amid an increased number of intensive drills

Engine flaws and a lack of training have been identified as the likely causes of two accidents that hit the Chinese air force in the space of little over a week – one of which claimed the lives of three airmen.

Deaths from the crashes, which happened within a span of 10 days, included a helicopter pilot who took part in the National Day grand parade at the start of the month.

A number of military sources said that as the air force stepped up its exercises – part of President Xi Jinping’s call to strengthen the “combat readiness” of the military – more accidents would happen as increased drills exposed technical problems and inadequate training.

“[If these problems are not resolved], it is foreseeable that more accidents will happen because the top brass is pushing for more drills and exercises across the military,” said one source close to the air force.

The fatal accident happened about three weeks ago in central Henan province, when a transport helicopter crashed, killing all three people on board.

Gong Dachuan, 33, was one of the airmen killed in the crash.

Local television reports named pilot Gong Dachuan, 33, and 37-year-old engineer Wen Weibin, as two of this killed in the crash. The third victim was later named as Luo Wei, from Luzhou in Sichuan, by an online mourning website.


A memorial for Gong was held by the local government in Xinye County last Tuesday.

“The three people were conducting some tests on the helicopter,” said a local source who declined to disclose where the crash happened and the nature of the test.

Xinye county government in Henan province held a memorial to honour the dead pilot.

Media reports said that Gong had flown in this year’s National Day parade in Beijing, while Wen had been decorated for his participation in the 2015 parade in Beijing to mark the 70th anniversary of victory over Japan in World War II.

The three dead airmen have been designated as martyrs, the reports added.

The second accident happened eight days later on the Tibetan Plateau where a J-10 fighter jet on a low-altitude flying drill crashed into the mountain.

“Fortunately, the pilot ejected safely in time, but the J-10 crashed into the mountain,” said an informed source, who requested anonymity since no official announcement about the accident has been made.

“Preliminary investigations indicated that the accident had something to with the Russian-made AL-31 engine on board the J-10,” the source said.

Military analysts said the air force needs to improve the durability of its aircraft and training for pilots.

Hong Kong-based military expert Song Zhongping suggested that problems with engines and flight control systems were also key reasons behind some of the fatal crashes.

Wen Weibin, 37, also died in the crash.

Two J-15 fighter jets crashed in April 2016, resulting in one death and one serious injury. Investigations into the two crashes pointed to problems with the flight control system.

A source from the Chinese air force said that, unlike their American counterparts, PLA pilots generally lack training in avionics engineering and had little flying experience before enlistment.

“PLA pilots may be strong and courageous, and they are motivated to make sacrifices,” the air force source said. “But they don’t have as much experience as American pilots – many of [whom] have a lot of experience in flying civilian aircraft before they join the air force.”

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...tal-crash-highlights-chinese-air-forces-flaws

NOTE- Please do not bring up India here, as we all know we have a pretty pathetic record as for crashes. Its about China here.

The words quoted as from PLAAF source are obviously fake news. There is never such out spoken comparison with American pilots regarding their civilian aviation experiences by PLA as we know.

Worth noted that US air force and navy combined crash a lot more planes comparing to PLA as a whole.

There is a great difference between military and civilian aviation.

 

[LKJ86]

According to the defense ministry spokesman, the helicopter from PLA Army suffered a mechanical failure at night.

Therefore, the news about PLAAF from SCMP is Bullsh*t completely!

 

[PDF]

I think you are probably new to the idea that "China is not known for its freedom of information"

I am not new but I am also familiar with the idea that " the west and a lot of other people spread propaganda and bias narrative regarding PRC."

 

[Figaro]

Why is it so surprising that the Chinese airforce is suffering from accidents? Especially given how much their training intensity increased in the past decade ...

 

[BL33D]

I am not new but I am also familiar with the idea that " the west and a lot of other people spread propaganda and bias narrative regarding PRC."

What is worse? you get propaganda+info or no info at all?

 

[conworldus]

Does a crash in China give you high or something? I guess you Indians need these kind of news to feel better about yourselves. Btw the army aviation wing is not the air force.

 

[PDF]

What is worse? you get propaganda+info or no info at all?

"A half-truth is the most cowardly of lies." ~ Mark Twain
"The most intangible, and therefore the worst, kind of a lie is a half truth. This is the peculiar device of a conscientious detractor." ~ Washington Allston
Biased info can be more damaging than no info many times.

 

[Globenim]

Full of biases against China?
Did you read before replying?
People actually died in crashes!
Or that's some concocted West propaganda?

I'm confused.
Are people denying that 3 people died and that accident happened because SCMP reported it?

SCMP is Chinese isn't it?

Lol. Notorious trolls and China haters trying really hard to act "confused" and pulling out the same retarded strawman like from a script to defend another obvious smear article, from Chinese hating trolls most favourite China-slandering sources (as this thread itself once again confirms), even despite its long know long history of hyperbolic, selective and unobjective slander against China, when they struggle with the fact that people got over their naivety and learned to question and doubt these useless "reports" from of notorious China slanderers like "Minnie Chan" and unprofessional and unobjective American fakenews rags with heavy anti-China bias like SCMP that keep posing as "Chinese news".

But we know, we know... completely ignoring anything about the case they are pretending to report on that doesnt serve their anti-China narrative, like where exactly and how the crash actually happend or who the deceased people really are, is "JUST FACTS AND INFO!!!!"
Pushing completely basless angles on unclear situations as long as they undermine the Chinese military like "lack of training", is "JUST REPORTING FACTS AND INFO!!!!"
"Highlighting" baseless rumors without any shred of evidence as long as it undermines China, is "JUST FACTS AND INFO!!!!"
False paraphrasing of unrelated quotes and quotemining spinning them out of context, is "JUST FACTS AND INFO!!!!"
Whitewashing basless slander against China from dubious sources into "expert opinions" and "sources", is "JUST FACTS AND INFO!!!!"
And everyone who can see how 99% of the SCMP propaganda, just fueling the American propaganda echochamber works (Someting happen! Quick search the ani-China database for any vaguely related reports, rumors and quotes and pile them up! Filter out anything that makes China look nice. "And this is why China is bad/dangerous/wrong/behind/...!") is "JUST BRAINWASHED AND BLINDED BY NATIONAL PRIDE!"

Now waiting for some extra sly rat to pull out some dumb "but its HQ is based in Hong Kong it cant be anti-China!" or "but this one tech company invested into an American propaganda proxy that is carried entirely by the American press openly feeding from it and openly into it, so SCMP slander against China is actually Chinese government propaganda!!!!!" nonsense.

What is worse? you get propaganda+info or no info at all?

You know the fable about "The boy who cried wolf too many times"? Don't worry it's "Western" not Chinese.

 

[Han Patriot]

You must be kidding me right? Do pppl knw many aircrafts yindoos crashed this year? Anyhow still not. An excuse, if we need to improve, means we need to. Improve.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Fatal crash highlights Chinese air force’s flaws, with drill and equipment problems implicated in deaths of three, including pilot who flew in National Day military parade

Engine flaws and a lack of training have been identified as the likely causes of two accidents that hit the Chinese air force in the space of little over a week – one of which claimed the lives of three airmen.

Deaths from the crashes, which happened within a span of 10 days, included a helicopter pilot who took part in the National Day grand parade at the start of the month.

President Xi Jinping’s call to strengthen the “combat readiness” of the military – more accidents would happen as increased drills exposed technical problems and inadequate training.

“[If these problems are not resolved], it is foreseeable that more accidents will happen because the top brass is pushing for more drills and exercises across the military,” said one source close to the air force.


The fatal accident happened about three weeks ago in central Henan province, when a transport helicopter crashed, killing all three people on board.

Gong Dachuan, 33, was one of the airmen killed in the crash. Photo: Handout

Local television reports named pilot Gong Dachuan, 33, and 37-year-old engineer Wen Weibin, as two of this killed in the crash. The third victim was later named as Luo Wei, from Luzhou in Sichuan, by an online mourning website.


A memorial for Gong was held by the local government in Xinye County last Tuesday.

“The three people were conducting some tests on the helicopter,” said a local source who declined to disclose where the crash happened and the nature of the test.

Xinye county government in Henan province held a memorial to honour the dead pilot. Photo: Handout
Media reports said that Gong had flown in this year’s National Day parade in Beijing, while Wen had been decorated for his participation in the 2015 parade in Beijing to mark the 70th anniversary of victory over Japan in World War II.

The three dead airmen have been designated as martyrs, the reports added.

The second accident happened eight days later on the Tibetan Plateau where a J-10 fighter jet on a low-altitude flying drill crashed into the mountain.

“Fortunately, the pilot ejected safely in time, but the J-10 crashed into the mountain,” said an informed source, who requested anonymity since no official announcement about the accident has been made.

“Preliminary investigations indicated that the accident had something to with the Russian-made AL-31 engine on board the J-10,” the source said.

Military analysts said the air force needs to improve the durability of its aircraft and training for pilots.

Hong Kong-based military expert Song Zhongping suggested that problems with engines and flight control systems were also key reasons behind some of the fatal crashes.

Wen Weibin, 37, also died in the crash. Photo: Handout
Two J-15 fighter jets crashed in April 2016, resulting in one death and one serious injury. Investigations into the two crashes pointed to problems with the flight control system.

A source from the Chinese air force said that, unlike their American counterparts, PLA pilots generally lack training in avionics engineering and had little flying experience before enlistment.

“PLA pilots may be strong and courageous, and they are motivated to make sacrifices,” the air force source said. “But they don’t have as much experience as American pilots – many of [whom] have a lot of experience in flying civilian aircraft before they join the air force.”

Additional reporting by William Zheng

 

[adelphi]

“PLA pilots may be strong and courageous, and they are motivated to make sacrifices,” the air force source said. “But they don’t have as much experience as American pilots – many of [whom] have a lot of experience in flying civilian aircraft before they join the air force.”

"Experience in flying civilian aircraft before Joining the air force". Why would any airforce in the world do that???

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

"Experience in flying civilian aircraft before Joining the air force". Why would any airforce in the world do that???

Are you asking why would any airforce like to have new recruits who flew planes previously?

 

[kuge]

this topic has existed in the chinese defence forum...