Fareed Zakaria: Let’s be honest, Islam has a problem right now

[The SC]

It is a Zionist Western attempt to portray ISIS in bad light, isn't it?


Yes, he wanted to see the light as a Ottoman vassal. Wonder why Austria resisted the Ottomans then.


Yes, finally there is a possibility, however remote of fulfilling the prophecy of a worldwide khilafat with absolute power in the hands of Muslims alone.

[Sarcasm intended]


Given a chance, they will make Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc too. AGAIN. Just give them some time.

- If you want to see it like that, but the main reason is to use ISIS in any form and shape that suites its Western supporters' policies or advance them like sending in their air forces and navy, a thing they could not do without demonizing ISIS to the devil's level.

- Not really Austria, most of Europe have ganged up on Turkey and was almost defeated , was it not for the Intervention of the Polish army, most probably backed by all the orthodox countries, when the Turks were totally exhausted... and Muslim help didn't make it on time.

- Absolute power, YES; On their own faith and lives with respect and tolerance for others.

- That is not a true Muslim behavior, remember Salahdin and the liberation of Jerusalem Al Qods, or read about it. you'll know than the true Islam, although it was a bit naive (in some opinions) nevertheless, it followed on what the prophet of Islam have teached (hands on) and the rules of warfare that were revealed in the Koran. It was the first time in the history of humanity, where humane warfare was introduced.

 

[Contrarian]

it followed on what the prophet of Islam have teached (hands on) and the rules of warfare that were revealed in the Koran. It was the first time in the history of humanity, where humane warfare was introduced.

Utterly False.

For Pakistanis maybe the world starts and ends with what Arabs do or what happens in Arab lands.

But humane warfare was not introduced by Arabs or Muslims. It was being practiced in Indian subcontinent for centuries before Islam even started. The Rajputs and many other Suryavanshis embodied these principles. Heck our epics - thousands of years old - also give testimonials to how humane warfare was conducted.

 

[The SC]

Utterly False.

For Pakistanis maybe the world starts and ends with what Arabs do or what happens in Arab lands.

But humane warfare was not introduced by Arabs or Muslims. It was being practiced in Indian subcontinent for centuries before Islam even started. The Rajputs and many other Suryavanshis embodied these principles. Heck our epics - thousands of years old - also give testimonials to how humane warfare was conducted.

And how was it conducted ? in India.

 

[Contrarian]

And how was it conducted ? in India.

Indeed. In Bharat - included present day Pakistan as well. That means unwillingly though as we might admit, Pakistanis themselves conducted humane warfare far before Arabs and Muslims.

No women and children ever harmed, no warfare after sun down and many other restrictions.

 

[The SC]

Indeed. In Bharat - included present day Pakistan as well. That means unwillingly though as we might admit, Pakistanis themselves conducted humane warfare far before Arabs and Muslims.

No women and children ever harmed, no warfare after sun down and many other restrictions.

You are talking about the Indus valley civilization I guess. So please do not forget the Egyptian and Mesopotamian ones that have preceded it.
I was referring to sparing the lives of the defeated warriors !!! on top of avoiding any harm to women, children and the elderly.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

That is not a true Muslim behavior, remember Salahdin and the liberation of Jerusalem Al Qods, or read about it.

That is your OPINION. And this varies very widely. According to Sufis of the Naqsbandi order, you may be considered a radical while according to the ISIS and its millions of supporters (active and passive), you may be a bleeding heart soft liberal. The onus on finding what 'true Muslim behavior' is lies entirely on you. Not on us infidels.

And as most 'infidels', I find your statements not trustworthy. I am sure the the Parsis centuries ago to the Yazidis today - will all agree with me.

I was referring to sparing the lives of the defeated warriors !!! on top of avoiding any harm to women, children and the elderly.

You need to read more about ancient Indian/Pakistani history and their conduct of war.

 

[Contrarian]

You are talking about the Indus valley civilization I guess. So please do not forget the Egyptian and Mesopotamian ones that have preceded it.
I was referring to sparing the lives of the defeated warriors !!! on top of avoiding any harm to women, children and the elderly.

No I am not talking about IVC.
And what do Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations have to do with it?

I said - humane warfare - one in which the lives of defeated warriors are spared, one in which no woman and child is killed, one in which war has to be mandatorily stopped at sunset - has been practiced in Indian subcontinent long before the Arabs or Europeans ever thought of doing so.

So please do not credit the Muslims or Arabs for being the first to start humane warfare. That is factually incorrect.

 

[The SC]

That is your OPINION. And this varies very widely. According to Sufis of the Naqsbandi order, you may be considered a radical while according to the ISIS and its millions of supporters (active and passive), you may be a bleeding heart soft liberal. The onus on finding what 'true Muslim behavior' is lies entirely on you. Not on us infidels.

And as most 'infidels', I find your statements not trustworthy. I am sure the the Parsis centuries ago to the Yazidis today - will all agree with me.

As if you were trustworthy.
That is not my own opinion solely, that is a historical fact, you can read about it. but still, I know that you will still be stubborn about it even if it jumps in your eyes. I have nothing more to tell you, you just look at a thousand years of Muslim presence in India and its legacy. So if that light couldn't open your eyes nothing would. Compare the same legacy in Europe and where it took it today.

No I am not talking about IVC.
And what do Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations have to do with it?

I said - humane warfare - one in which the lives of defeated warriors are spared, one in which no woman and child is killed, one in which war has to be mandatorily stopped at sunset - has been practiced in Indian subcontinent long before the Arabs or Europeans ever thought of doing so.

So please do not credit the Muslims or Arabs for being the first to start humane warfare. That is factually incorrect.

Well, if you are adding things I have stated to your account, that means you are a fraud, to start with.

 

[abhi21]

So true..

 

[SarthakGanguly]

As if you were trustworthy.
That is not my own opinion solely, that is a historical fact, you can read about it. but still, I know that you will still be stubborn about it even if it jumps in your eyes. I have nothing more to tell you, you just look at a thousand years of Muslim presence in India and its legacy. So if that light couldn't open your eyes nothing would. Compare the same legacy in Europe and where it took it today.

Exactly. You actually hit the nail on its head.

1. We as non believers have never been trusted, and will never be.

2. The facts are not recorded by me. They are recorded and carved in stone. Your 20th century rewriting is not going to change that.

3. The impact of Islamic rule is very evident in the Indian subcontinent - as the Buddhist cultural heritage of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh is history, not to mention about its rich Hindu heritage. That too after just a period of 200 odd years of uninterrupted Islamic rule.

4. The legacy in Europe is entirely different. Because of an active Reconquista and Crusades - it was Abrahamic vs Abrahamic. In the Orient the natives were much different.

I suggest you go back to your books, learn more about medieval history.

 

[500]

Your level of understanding is really mediocre.

I showed ur total ignorance (once again), all you can do now is lame personal attacks.

Is it not the Austrian king that had asked the Turks to take Vienna?

Not of course. Where from u got that idea? Another ur idiotic discovery? How Ottoman offensive against Europe became a global attack on Islam in ur head?

I have asked you to tell us about your achievements in life and you have never answered, eventhough I have answered your request.

I've already answered u, that can see my achievements in my profile although its totally irrelevant. Also I never requested ur achievements, since I know that u are total ignorant.

 

[T-Rex]

When television host Bill Maher declares on his weekly show that “the Muslim world . . . has too much in common with ISIS ” and guest Sam Harris says that Islam is “the mother lode of bad ideas,” I understand why people are upset. Maher and Harris, an author, made crude simplifications and exaggerations. And yet, they were also talking about something real.

I know the arguments against speaking of Islam as violent and reactionary. It has a following of 1.6 billion people. Places such as Indonesia and India have hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t fit these caricatures. That’s why Maher and Harris are guilty of gross generalizations. But let’s be honest. Islam has a problem today. The places that have trouble accommodating themselves to the modern world are disproportionately Muslim.

In 2013, of the top 10 groups that perpetrated terrorist attacks, seven were Muslim. Of the top 10 countries where terrorist attacks took place, seven were Muslim-majority. The Pew Research Center rates countries on the level of restrictions that governments impose on the free exercise of religion. Of the 24 most restrictive countries, 19 are Muslim-majority. Of the 21 countries that have laws against apostasy, all have Muslim majorities.

There is a cancer of extremism within Islam today. A small minority of Muslims celebrates violence and intolerance and harbors deeply reactionary attitudes toward women and minorities. While some confront these extremists, not enough do so, and the protests are not loud enough. How many mass rallies have been held against the Islamic State (also known as ISIS) in the Arab world today?

The caveat, “Islam today,” is important. The central problem with Maher’s and Harris’s analyses are that they take a reality — extremism in Islam — and describe it in ways that suggest it is inherent in Islam. Maher says Islam is “the only religion that acts like the Mafia, that will [expletive] kill you if you say the wrong thing, draw the wrong picture or write the wrong book.” He’s right about the viciousness but wrong to link it to “Islam” — instead of “some Muslims.”

Harris prides himself on being highly analytical — with a PhD, no less. I learned in graduate school that you can never explain a variable phenomenon with a fixed cause. So, if you are asserting that Islam is inherently violent and intolerant — “the mother lode of bad ideas” — then, since Islam has been around for 14 centuries, we should have seen 14 centuries of this behavior.

Harris should read Zachary Karabell’s book “Peace Be Upon You: Fourteen Centuries of Muslim, Christian and Jewish Conflict and Cooperation.” What he would discover is that there have been wars but also many centuries of peace. Islam has at times been at the cutting edge of modernity, but like today, it has also been the great laggard. As Karabell explained to me, “If you exclude the last 70 years or so, in general the Islamic world was more tolerant of minorities than the Christian world. That’s why there were more than a million Jews living in the Arab world until the early 1950s — nearly 200,000 in Iraq alone.”

If there were periods when the Islamic world was open, modern, tolerant and peaceful, this suggests that the problem is not in the religion’s essence and that things can change once more. So why is Maher making these comments? I understand that as a public intellectual he feels the need to speak what he sees as the unvarnished truth (though his “truth” is simplified and exaggerated). But surely there is another task for public intellectuals as well — to try to change the world for good.

Does he really think that comparing Islam to the Mafia will do this? Harris says that he wants to encourage “nominal Muslims who don’t take the faith seriously” to reform the religion. So, the strategy to reform Islam is to tell 1.6 billion Muslims, most of whom are pious and devout, that their religion is evil and they should stop taking it seriously?

That is not how Christianity moved from its centuries-long embrace of violence, crusades, inquisitions, witch-burning and intolerance to its modern state. On the contrary, intellectuals and theologians celebrated the elements of the religion that were tolerant, liberal and modern, and emphasized them, while giving devout Christians reasons to take pride in their faith. A similar approach — reform coupled with respect — will work with Islam over time.

The stakes are high in this debate. You can try to make news or you can make a difference. I hope Maher starts doing the latter.

Fareed Zakaria: Let’s be honest, Islam has a problem right now - The Washington Post

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People who don't have e of ethics say that there's something wrong with Islam! Well, I'm not surprised. After all, those who don't see anything wrong with homicidal maniacs like netanyahu and modi cannot be expected to refrain from slandering Islam.

 

[The SC]

Exactly. You actually hit the nail on its head.

1. We as non believers have never been trusted, and will never be.

2. The facts are not recorded by me. They are recorded and carved in stone. Your 20th century rewriting is not going to change that.

3. The impact of Islamic rule is very evident in the Indian subcontinent - as the Buddhist cultural heritage of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh is history, not to mention about its rich Hindu heritage. That too after just a period of 200 odd years of uninterrupted Islamic rule.

4. The legacy in Europe is entirely different. Because of an active Reconquista and Crusades - it was Abrahamic vs Abrahamic. In the Orient the natives were much different.

I suggest you go back to your books, learn more about medieval history.

I suggest you leave your shortcomings projections on others, and go try something else than lying..
Every educated person know that India is the one who wants the rewrite history in the 20st century, it has failed at that too. Too many people saw it happening and some of your scholars declare it openly while your government tried it covertly.
Anyhow, this discussion is going no where. So no bad feelings.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I suggest you leave your shortcomings projections on others, and go try something else than lying..
Every educated person know that India is the one who wants the rewrite history in the 20st century, it has failed at that too. Too many people saw it happening and some of your scholars declare it openly while your government tried it covertly.
Anyhow, this discussion is going no where. So no bad feelings.

All the history that is taught in India is cross verified and accepted Internationally. The curricullum is open, transparent and time tested. Covert introduction of curriculla is not possible, because people are going to read it in class anyway.

But sure, no bad feelings.

 

[Imran Khan]

sometime even stupids say truth