F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[rcrmj]

SO, you think that you have enough money in 2020 to pour in a 5th gen plane, and by the way j-31 takes at least 20 years from now to reach its desired position.



why do you think that china will make you partner in its new gen fighters, I don't think so...
do you have any official link that can prove , this ????

based on what?

 

[AirDefence]

based on what?

based on your operational requirement and if china need 300-400 of these 5th gen fighters

 

[Kompromat]

based on your operational requirement and if china need 300-400 of these 5th gen fighters

Maybe because our requirement is to buy no more than 3 squadrons ?

 

[That Guy]

SO, you think that you have enough money in 2020 to pour in a 5th gen plane, and by the way j-31 takes at least 20 years from now to reach its desired position.



why do you think that china will make you partner in its new gen fighters, I don't think so...
do you have any official link that can prove , this ????

Oh my god, are you really asking me something that's already been discussed in this thread?

Like I said before, the F-60 version of the J31 is meant for export, Pakistan doesn't need to be a partner, all it needs to do is buy the damn things when it comes into service with the PLAAF.

Proof?

"By installing a large scale model at its booth, the Aviation Industry Corporation of China will officially acknowledge the existence of China's second stealth fighter, dubbed by outsiders as the "J-31," which made its maiden flight on October 31.

"Currently the only fifth generation fighter available for sale is the F-35 by the US. The 'J-31' will offer an alternative for non-traditional allies of the US," Bai Wei, former deputy chief editor of the Aviation World Monthly, told the Global Times, noting that the fighter will bring subtle changes to international relations."

Stealth fighter, attack helicopters to be featured at Airshow China 2012 - Globaltimes.cn

Since Global Times run by the CPC, we can consider this an official recognition of China's ambition to directly challenge the F-35's future export potential.

 

[muse]

Neither J60 or J31 are likely to be production aircraft, they are instead technology demonstrators and test beds - Pakistan have an excellent platform in the JFT and anyway, Pakistan need basic tech know how, trained scientist and engineers and manufacturing capability, not a handful of fancy aircraft.

 

[Jango]

Neither J60 or J31 are likely to be production aircraft, they are instead technology demonstrators and test beds - Pakistan have an excellent platform in the JFT and anyway, Pakistan need basic tech know how, trained scientist and engineers and manufacturing capability, not a handful of fancy aircraft.

Why would a test bed/tech demonstrator come later than the actual frontline 5th gen aircraft (J-20)?

 

[That Guy]

Neither J60 or J31 are likely to be production aircraft, they are instead technology demonstrators and test beds - Pakistan have an excellent platform in the JFT and anyway, Pakistan need basic tech know how, trained scientist and engineers and manufacturing capability, not a handful of fancy aircraft.

Wrong, If it were 2012, I may have said that you have a point, but it's already been confirmed that the PLAAF and especially the PLAN have plans for the J-31. The PLAAF want it to complement the J-20 and the PLAN want it to for their carriers.

The government also is looking to export this plane to other nations, as I've already provided a link in this thread stating as such, just go look for it.

 

[araz]

Neither J60 or J31 are likely to be production aircraft, they are instead technology demonstrators and test beds - Pakistan have an excellent platform in the JFT and anyway, Pakistan need basic tech know how, trained scientist and engineers and manufacturing capability, not a handful of fancy aircraft.

I dont think this is true. What is sufficient for today may no longer be so in 2020. As technology advances if you dont keep pace you will become irrelevant in the subcontinent arena.So we do need to plan for the next decade NOW and j31 works into PAFs workings perfectly. Someone reported that a PAF team of engineers is already involved in the project. We may not have the industry but we do have men who vo around ghe world lookinv at and conducting research and then coming back to advance the concepts further.The chinese aviation industry is happy to let these people dothetinkering as the fruits of their labour are shared by both the countries.
Araz

 

[muse]

I dont think this is true. What is sufficient for today may no longer be so in 2020. As technology advances if you dont keep pace you will become irrelevant in the subcontinent arena.So we do need to plan for the next decade NOW and j31 works into PAFs workings perfectly. Someone reported that a PAF team of engineers is already involved in the project. We may not have the industry but we do have men who vo around ghe world lookinv at and conducting research and then coming back to advance the concepts further.The chinese aviation industry is happy to let these people dothetinkering as the fruits of their labour are shared by both the countries.
Araz

Quite possibly but it seems to me that Chinese realize that Pakistan is not and so long as the officer corp is oriented the way it is, will not ever be a first tier ally of China - I think , at least to my understanding, the Chinese sharing such technology with Pakistan, well, they might as well deliver it to the Pentagon directly -- but of course I may be wrong and I also may be wrong about need scientist, engineers and facilities, such is the life of parasites.

 

[araz]

Muse
I dont think that firstly Pakistan has ever been irrelevant to or will ever be COMPLETELY irrelevant to China. Secondly the proportions might be different but there is definately symbiosis rather than parasiticism.Thirdly it would be absolutely contradictory to Pakistans interests to take from China and pass on to uncle SAM. You dont bite the hand that feeds you AS long as it continues to do so. What happened with certain US articles had more to do with Pakistani interests than chinese ones. There are other avenues which the Chinese exploit forinfo gathering rather than us.
Araz

 

[muse]

Muse
I dont think that firstly Pakistan has ever been irrelevant to or will ever be COMPLETELY irrelevant to China. Secondly the proportions might be different but there is definately symbiosis rather than parasiticism.Thirdly it would be absolutely contradictory to Pakistans interests to take from China and pass on to uncle SAM. You dont bite the hand that feeds you AS long as it continues to do so. What happened with certain US articles had more to do with Pakistani interests than chinese ones. There are other avenues which the Chinese exploit forinfo gathering rather than us.
Araz

I strongly object to such reasonable and well articulated posts, I'll have you know - and on to bijnis: I was not suggesting that Pakistan are irrelevant, rather that because Pakistan choose to exist in a policy grey area with regard to Islamism and the support infrastructure of terrorism, that China cannot see Pakistan as a true ally - I appreciate the rhetoric of higher than sweeter than and all that, but I also see the level of trade and policy alignment and social interaction -- and I wish we could have better understood the environment we are must be in -- And Yes, it's not an entirely parasitic relationship, however, I'm certain that a Pakistan that can bring a higher level of scientific, engineering and manufacturing capability to the table, is a more valuable Pakistan, from anybody's perspective - not biting the hand that feeds you?? Well, I think the Americans will have a couple of interesting things to say about that, look we are in some pretty desperate straights and desperate people are not people anybody can trust.

I strongly support better and deeper relations with China, especially trade and social and I do wish we behaved as if we understood the value of these.

As for J31, can you point to or present information that allows to conclude that China have moved past technology demonstrator mode?

 

[araz]

I strongly object to such reasonable and well articulated posts, I'll have you know - and on to bijnis: I was not suggesting that Pakistan are irrelevant, rather that because Pakistan choose to exist in a policy grey area with regard to Islamism and the support infrastructure of terrorism, that China cannot see Pakistan as a true ally - I appreciate the rhetoric of higher than sweeter than and all that, but I also see the level of trade and policy alignment and social interaction -- and I wish we could have better understood the environment we are must be in -- And Yes, it's not an entirely parasitic relationship, however, I'm certain that a Pakistan that can bring a higher level of scientific, engineering and manufacturing capability to the table, is a more valuable Pakistan, from anybody's perspective - not biting the hand that feeds you?? Well, I think the Americans will have a couple of interesting things to say about that, look we are in some pretty desperate straights and desperate people are not people anybody can trust.

I strongly support better and deeper relations with China, especially trade and social and I do wish we behaved as if we understood the value of these.

As for J31, can you point to or present information that allows to conclude that China have moved past technology demonstrator mode?

Muse.
Pakistan maybe a rat infested sewer but it has certain interests for China which I need not elaborate. Secondly you maybe surprised that the chaotic Pakistan may suit a lot of countries possibly including China than a stable country utilizing its growth potential.The dichotomy of its religious and political asperations are best left for another thread so I must refuse the invite.As to the evidence regarding J 31,there are statements of chinese officials suggesting a dssire to export the plane and you dont come out and say this unless you mean it.
Araz

 

[Storm Force]

SINCE MOST OF YOU HAVE INDICATED THAT THIS PLANE WILL NOT BE AVAIABLE UNTIL 2022.

AND because PAKISTAN IS NOT INVOLVED in its development BUT hoping that the chinease will make it available in a decade or so

IS THE ENTIRE THREAD NOT VERY SPECUCLATIVE AND FULL OF IFS & BUTS

There is nothing from the PAF/MILITARY suggesting that this is even in their mindset

cOULD BE IT BE ITS too far into the HORIZEN

 

[That Guy]

SINCE MOST OF YOU HAVE INDICATED THAT THIS PLANE WILL NOT BE AVAIABLE UNTIL 2022.

AND because PAKISTAN IS NOT INVOLVED in its development BUT hoping that the chinease will make it available in a decade or so

IS THE ENTIRE THREAD NOT VERY SPECUCLATIVE AND FULL OF IFS & BUTS

There is nothing from the PAF/MILITARY suggesting that this is even in their mindset

cOULD BE IT BE ITS too far into the HORIZEN

Considering that they've just bought a set of twin engine L-15 trainers, there are rumors that Pakistan's air force may be wanting to purchase a twin engine air craft. The only logical one that comes to mind is the so called J-2X rumored to be being jointly developed by Pakistan and China, or the J-31 which we all know that Pakistan will be an early adopter off.

 

[Storm Force]

THAT GUY

The only logical one that comes to mind is the so called J-2X rumored to be being jointly developed by Pakistan and China, or the J-31 which we all know that Pakistan will be an early adopter off.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...raft-pakistan-air-force-23.html#ixzz2SRYnFEGW

[ big assumption again i think