F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[neehar]

Can't really say, but the general consensus is that around the 2020-22 timeframe, we'll at least think about getting 5th gens, and by 2025 we'll probably induct about 2 squadrons, this is around the same time that India is expected to start inducting the FGFA.

Now I have to stress that this is all highly speculative, the J-31 and the FGFA both could be heavily delayed and if that happens, the induction times could very well be extended to 2025-2030 for both nations.

are you sure about that??any official news regarding the induction??

 

[danger007]

Can't really say, but the general consensus is that around the 2020-22 timeframe, we'll at least think about getting 5th gens, and by 2025 we'll probably induct about 2 squadrons, this is around the same time that India is expected to start inducting the FGFA.

Now I have to stress that this is all highly speculative, the J-31 and the FGFA both could be heavily delayed and if that happens, the induction times could very well be extended to 2025-2030 for both nations.

leave India aside... i am asking about PAF.... so you guys are thinking.... china is willing to provide 5 gen jet... before they fulfill the requirement of their own?? and you guys are assuming, they will work and spend money to provide 2 sq for PAF?

 

[SQ8]

leave India aside... i am asking about PAF.... so you guys are thinking.... china is willing to provide 5 gen jet... before they fulfill the requirement of their own?? and you guys are assuming, they will work and spend money to provide 2 sq for PAF?

They have, are and will.
It's the PAF which has the problem with an ego perception.
If today, Pakistan asks China that we want three sq's of J-10B's delivered in two years but we dont have the money.. you know what the Chinese are going to say??

They'll say "sure"... we'll finance you.. here is another soft loan(add to the loans taken out for the SAAB, the JF-17s.. the ZDK.. etc)
please pay the interest on these in time.

The PAF knew about the J-20 and J-31 early on.. they practically have a small community in chengdu and elsewhere.
The question is not of assurance of purchase or timeline... it's of money and and a little honor.

 

[danger007]

They have, are and will.
It's the PAF which has the problem with an ego perception.
If today, Pakistan asks China that we want three sq's of J-10B's delivered in two years but we dont have the money.. you know what the Chinese are going to say??

They'll say "sure"... we'll finance you.. here is another soft loan(add to the loans taken out for the SAAB, the JF-17s.. the ZDK.. etc)
please pay the interest on these in time.

The PAF knew about the J-20 and J-31 early on.. they practically have a small community in chengdu and elsewhere.
The question is not of assurance of purchase or timeline... it's of money and and a little honor.

hmmm so as the above guy mentioned... can PAF Induct a squadron before IAF? will they provide squadron before they fulfilling the requirements of PLAAF?

 

[Munir]

So according you people you cant prove anything but speculate. And your speculation ignores that.india wil get a pak fa prototype for testing next year. Yes as india finances pak fa fgfs wil in india in 2014. But hey i wil ley u guys speculate your hog wash abt j31 arriving first on your tiny ftaction gdp and air force budget. And i mean very tiny that even the thunders which are so cheap can only with soft loans from china. Please somr reality guys

If Russia gets its PAKFA operational after 2016 then how can Indians do it in 2014? I mean, reality check. We are talking about a nation that needed designing, building, massive assistance and ended up with LCA that is a learning project... Dassault does not trust HAL building capacity, BAE was getting blamed for problems with Hawk assembly, Russians were blamed for Mig21 incidents end the list goes on and on...

Let me simple. JF17, F16 block52/mlu, J31.... That is what you are going to see. You will see more high tech weapons like Pakistan showed with Ra'ad, 400AKG, C803, SD10B, tactical nukes and a lot more. I am looking forward how India will evolve... Running from one supplier to another. And what we can achieve with soft loans you cannot achieve with big bucks. Not even if you are the only help desk in the world.

 

[neehar]

They have, are and will.
It's the PAF which has the problem with an ego perception.
If today, Pakistan asks China that we want three sq's of J-10B's delivered in two years but we dont have the money.. you know what the Chinese are going to say??

They'll say "sure"... we'll finance you.. here is another soft loan(add to the loans taken out for the SAAB, the JF-17s.. the ZDK.. etc)
please pay the interest on these in time.

The PAF knew about the J-20 and J-31 early on.. they practically have a small community in chengdu and elsewhere.
The question is not of assurance of purchase or timeline... it's of money and and a little honor.

money might be an issue but i think whats more important is perhaps they've felt that its not necessary?? of course according to ur current threat perceptions buying and maintaining such machines cost huge..so i think its more related to cost/benefit ratio rather than just cost..what do u say abt it??

 

[danger007]

If Russia gets its PAKFA operational after 2016 then how can Indians do it in 2014? I mean, reality check. We are talking about a nation that needed designing, building, massive assistance and ended up with LCA that is a learning project... Dassault does not trust HAL building capacity, BAE was getting blamed for problems with Hawk assembly, Russians were blamed for Mig21 incidents end the list goes on and on...

Let me simple. JF17, F16 block52/mlu, J31.... That is what you are going to see. You will see more high tech weapons like Pakistan showed with Ra'ad, 400AKG, C803, SD10B, tactical nukes and a lot more. I am looking forward how India will evolve... Running from one supplier to another. And what we can achieve with soft loans you cannot achieve with big bucks. Not even if you are the only help desk in the world.

he is referring proto type...

 

[Munir]

money might be an issue but i think whats more important is perhaps they've felt that its not necessary?? of course according to ur current threat perceptions buying and maintaining such machines cost huge..so i think its more related to cost/benefit ratio rather than just cost..what do u say abt it??

Very neat analysis. India is not having MRCA soon... Why investing to get J10B if there is no need to defend (cause I do not see them acting as an aggressor). Surely MKI numbers are intimidating (and who doesn't love Flankers...) but it will not change much in reaction. The moment Rafale comes the best solution would be FC20. The moment PAKFA comes the best solution is J31. No Rafale... No FC20.

 

[danger007]

Very neat analysis. India is not having MRCA soon... Why investing to get J10B if there is no need to defend (cause I do not see them acting as an aggressor). Surely MKI numbers are intimidating (and who doesn't love Flankers...) but it will not change much in reaction. The moment Rafale comes the best solution would be FC20. The moment PAKFA comes the best solution is J31. No Rafale... No FC20.

that quite fan boy statement....

 

[Munir]

You cannot say anything more then that. Go back to BRF. Here you need to do more then shouting empty one-liners.

 

[MilSpec]

If Russia gets its PAKFA operational after 2016 then how can Indians do it in 2014? I mean, reality check. We are talking about a nation that needed designing, building, massive assistance and ended up with LCA that is a learning project... Dassault does not trust HAL building capacity, BAE was getting blamed for problems with Hawk assembly, Russians were blamed for Mig21 incidents end the list goes on and on...

Let me simple. JF17, F16 block52/mlu, J31.... That is what you are going to see. You will see more high tech weapons like Pakistan showed with Ra'ad, 400AKG, C803, SD10B, tactical nukes and a lot more. I am looking forward how India will evolve... Running from one supplier to another. And what we can achieve with soft loans you cannot achieve with big bucks. Not even if you are the only help desk in the world.

Very Amusing....

 

[That Guy]

leave India aside... i am asking about PAF.... so you guys are thinking.... china is willing to provide 5 gen jet... before they fulfill the requirement of their own?? and you guys are assuming, they will work and spend money to provide 2 sq for PAF?

Considering that the J-31 is supposed to be an export fighter (confirmed by Chinese officials), with only the PLA-N interested in it for domestic naval use (confirmed by Chinese officials), the domestic orders aren't exactly expected to be large, perhaps 150-300 within a 10-15 year time frame. This gives the Chinese plenty of time to induct the planes into their own service and that of fulfilling foreign orders.

You're also assuming that we think China is just going to hand these jets over to Pakistan and pay for them itself. That is completely false, by 2020, Pakistan's economy will hopefully be recovered, and having a large population, it's GDP and PPP will only get better with time. This would give Pakistan's defense budget a big boost to spend more money on these fighters.

India is quite involved in this, as Pakistan doesn't do anything militarily without first looking at what India is doing. If India delays it's induction of the FGFA, then Pakistan may change it's plans to either quicken the pace of induction, or slow down to concentrate on the economy.

One question for you, why are you writing "...", it's really annoying and makes it harder to put together your sentences.

 

[Munir]

Navy LCA hasn't flown since july 2012... That is almost a year. We can delay J31...

 

[Storm Force]

No comparison between pak fa which is joint fifth gen project with worldwide coverage of testing and induction plans for both stakeholders ie Russia and India.
In contrast j31 is s top secret chinese fighter that has zero Pakistani involement. No financial input or tech input. So all this speculation is fanboy we hope china builds this then hopefully give us donate two squdrons. This stuff we know more than you is fantasy land. This is a nation so limited in resources and options that virtually every thing is on credit.

 

[Munir]

No comparison between pak fa which is joint fifth gen project with worldwide coverage of testing and induction plans for both stakeholders ie Russia and India.
In contrast j31 is s top secret chinese fighter that has zero Pakistani involement. No financial input or tech input. So all this speculation is fanboy we hope china builds this then hopefully give us donate two squdrons. This stuff we know more than you is fantasy land. This is a nation so limited in resources and options that virtually every thing is on credit.

What is joint in PAKFA?