F-35? We Want The LCA Navy: Indian Navy Chief

[Abingdonboy]

I would chose LCA over the F35 anyday, The "To big to fail" concept of the aircraft already lost its meaning...

I like this!

 

[Yogi]

@sancho
why don't anybody thing about Naval PAKFA rather than going for F-35 for 5th Gen fighters???

I mean we r already partner in that program n i have heard that PAKFA doesn't need much space to take off besides IAC2 doesn't seem to be coming before 2022 by that time a naval version of PAKFA can easily be made...

 

[IndoUS]

@sancho
why don't anybody thing about Naval PAKFA rather than going for F-35 for 5th Gen fighters???

I mean we r already partner in that program n i have heard that PAKFA doesn't need much space to take off besides IAC2 doesn't seem to be coming before 2022 by that time a naval version of PAKFA can easily be made...

I am guessing that Russia has so far not invited any foreign partnership in the program. Or rather the aircraft time frame is too far in the future that the Navy for now doesn't seem to be paying much attention to it (But when it comes out I am sure Navy would be interested in it).

 

[Yogi]

I am guessing that Russia has so far not invited any foreign partnership in the program. Or rather the aircraft time frame is too far in the future that the Navy for now doesn't seem to be paying much attention to it (But when it comes out I am sure Navy would be interested in it).

Mate according to my calculations at max we'll be flying PAKFA by 2020 besides i don't think its a big deal for the Russkis to develop a naval version of PAKFA with all the experience they have....

N my point was i don't see anybody discussing these awesome possibilities while we keep seeing people dreaming about F-35...

 

[zaxcollix]

So what?? Many nations rely on foreign or foreign designed copies in their machines.

It will take time. Barak 8 is a JV, Brahmos is a JV, and Nirbhay is Indian. It's a slow process.

A 3rd world nation's defense industry cannot do this in like 10 years.

Do not call India a 3rd world nation.

If you have the urge you can call your parents Third rate/class Father and Mother.

 

[janon]

Do not call India a 3rd world nation.

If you have the urge you can call your parents Third rate/class Father and Mother.

Is India a first world nation according to you? The term "third world" actually means a few things. Instead of commanding people not to use the term, try explaining what is wrong with the description.

 

[acetophenol]

I have an Idea of INS Viraat going an all out refit(don't kill me guys!) and f 35s operating out of it. Also,f 35s and Naval Lchs can operate from our future Ambhibious dock platforms.

 

[Cherokee]

Is it? Then why naval Dhruv was rejected by IN and no changes to fix some issues were accepted? Why don't they support HAL at least to develop a bigger helicopter with ASW capability? In fact, they won't induct a single indigenous helicopter in this decade, not Dhruv, not the coming LUH and with the selection of S70/NH90 helicopters, there is not even a need for a medium class helicopter anymore. Add Mig 29Ks, possibly another foreign MMRCA, foreign MPAs...and suddenly, N-LCA is the only indigenous aircraft in INs airwing, until Saras might be available.
Even conventional subs developed in India will come only by the next decade, just like our indigenous carriers, so there the reality is quiet different.

The fact is, IN has more indigenous options on the vessel side, because the Indian ship yards are far ahead of the aero industry.



If that would be true, we wouldn't needed a strengthened gear as well, but that is not the case right? We will have shore based training facilities to train arrested landings and sooner or later the hook needs to be added on this version as well.

I am Talking about The Warship development Capability of Navy .

What Warship is to navy is what Fighter Plane is to Airforce .

We see a Humongous Difference in capabilities of both .

 

[acetophenol]

Is it? Then why naval Dhruv was rejected by IN and no changes to fix some issues were accepted? Why don't they support HAL at least to develop a bigger helicopter with ASW capability? In fact, they won't induct a single indigenous helicopter in this decade, not Dhruv, not the coming LUH and with the selection of S70/NH90 helicopters, there is not even a need for a medium class helicopter anymore. Add Mig 29Ks, possibly another foreign MMRCA, foreign MPAs...and suddenly, N-LCA is the only indigenous aircraft in INs airwing, until Saras might be available.
Even conventional subs developed in India will come only by the next decade, just like our indigenous carriers, so there the reality is quiet different.

The fact is, IN has more indigenous options on the vessel side, because the Indian ship yards are far ahead of the aero industry.



If that would be true, we wouldn't needed a strengthened gear as well, but that is not the case right? We will have shore based training facilities to train arrested landings and sooner or later the hook needs to be added on this version as well.

I thought Dhruv Could not be modified to aptly suit IN requirement like Dhruv had hingeless rotor which do not support self folding rotor,a compulsory need for IN.

 

[Black Widow]

@sancho
why don't anybody thing about Naval PAKFA rather than going for F-35 for 5th Gen fighters???

I mean we r already partner in that program n i have heard that PAKFA doesn't need much space to take off besides IAC2 doesn't seem to be coming before 2022 by that time a naval version of PAKFA can easily be made...

There can be many reason, few are according to me...

1. N-FGFA will be huge plane, 30 tonn category.
2. Our Carriers are small 40,000 Tonne , the number of bird can reduce if we use N-FGFA.
3. The Naval version design will take extra time, which we don't have. China is going fast for there J30.
4. Since we need less number of Naval fighter, N-FGFA will not be cost effective solution (As Su33)


So I think India will go with
a) N-LCA (Proof of concept, limited numbered)
b) MiG29 K
c) N-AMCA (If we make AMCA , navy will definetly ask for Naval version, the whole N-LCA project is about N-AMCA only)
d) In worst case we will have F35 or Rafale-Marine...

 

[SajeevJino]

Modernize the INS Viraat with some more Self defence Weapons and Next Gen Airborne Radars

And Place the F 35 STOVL aircraft onboard..

Would it Become Leathel or need that ship one more support Vessel


BS

 

[Yogi]

There can be many reason, few are according to me...

1. N-FGFA will be huge plane, 30 tonn category.
2. Our Carriers are small 40,000 Tonne , the number of bird can reduce if we use N-FGFA.
3. The Naval version design will take extra time, which we don't have. China is going fast for there J30.
4. Since we need less number of Naval fighter, N-FGFA will not be cost effective solution (As Su33)


So I think India will go with
a) N-LCA (Proof of concept, limited numbered)
b) MiG29 K
c) N-AMCA (If we make AMCA , navy will definetly ask for Naval version, the whole N-LCA project is about N-AMCA only)
d) In worst case we will have F35 or Rafale-Marine...

I disagree with most of ur points:

1. IN has ordered enough cost effective Mig 29s n N-LCA for Viki n IAC1 so most possibly new jets will be inducted only for IAC2(65,000 tonne) n onwards.

2. IAC2 won't come out before 2022 thats sufficient time to make a naval version of PAKFA.

3. A Naval PAKFA could provide a huge leap to IN in comparision to its counterparts.

4. We r not at war with China n the possibility of a full fleged war involving ACs is also very less. So no need to worry much about J-31.

5. Naval PAKFA will provide us self reliability as well as 5th gen capabilities.

6. Even if we had some small conflict in SCS, what would u prefer to saguard or assests NLCA coupled with Mig 29s or Naval PAKFA against Chinese SU33....

 

[Black Widow]

I disagree with most of ur points:

1. IN has ordered enough cost effective Mig 29s n N-LCA for Viki n IAC1 so most possibly new jets will be inducted only for IAC2(65,000 tonne) n onwards.

2. IAC2 won't come out before 2022 thats sufficient time to make a naval version of PAKFA.

3. A Naval PAKFA could provide a huge leap to IN in comparision to its counterparts.

4. We r not at war with China n the possibility of a full fleged war involving ACs is also very less. So no need to worry much about J-31.

5. Naval PAKFA will provide us self reliability as well as 5th gen capabilities.

6. Even if we had some small conflict in SCS, what would u prefer to saguard or assests NLCA coupled with Mig 29s or Naval PAKFA against Chinese SU33....

1. Agree.. MiG29 is cheaper and Russia agree to provide support. IAC2 will be bigger, but numbers of plane carrying will decrease if 30 tonne fighter plane will be housed on it.

2. Agree, Time is there, but what about money?? Unless there is large requirement is it profitable to make N-FGFA, thats too when N-AMCA will be on board?? Remember Su33K was rejected only coz it was not cost effective (less number required).

3. Agree but same can be achieved by N-AMCA, F35 and Rafale Marine... Moreover Naval planes are involve in ground attack role, How can we see Stealth fighter achieving this goal???

4. J31,30,XX can be intercepted using ground based fighetrs. Naval planes hardly involved in A2A combat..

5. Agree: but at what cost?? The same capability we can gain by FGFA and AMCA, how come Naval version add any value?

6: Chinese Su33Ks can be handled by G2A missiles fired from ships (Destroyers and SAMs) .

Please see the role of Naval fighter, Its not what you assuming.

 

[MilSpec]

Modernize the INS Viraat with some more Self defence Weapons and Next Gen Airborne Radars

And Place the F 35 STOVL aircraft onboard..

Would it Become Leathel or need that ship one more support Vessel


BS

Or use it as a training vessel. It takes a lot of money to keep it floating....

 

[Yogi]

1. Agree.. MiG29 is cheaper and Russia agree to provide support. IAC2 will be bigger, but numbers of plane carrying will decrease if 30 tonne fighter plane will be housed on it.

2. Agree, Time is there, but what about money?? Unless there is large requirement is it profitable to make N-FGFA, thats too when N-AMCA will be on board?? Remember Su33K was rejected only coz it was not cost effective (less number required).

3. Agree but same can be achieved by N-AMCA, F35 and Rafale Marine... Moreover Naval planes are involve in ground attack role, How can we see Stealth fighter achieving this goal???

4. J31,30,XX can be intercepted using ground based fighetrs. Naval planes hardly involved in A2A combat..

5. Agree: but at what cost?? The same capability we can gain by FGFA and AMCA, how come Naval version add any value?

6: Chinese Su33Ks can be handled by G2A missiles fired from ships (Destroyers and SAMs) .

Please see the role of Naval fighter, Its not what you assuming.

i will try to summarize my view here:
1. AMCA is still on drawing board so don't have high expectations from it now

2. Naval PAKFA will can be easily inducted in good no. as both India n Russia r planning to go bigger carriers(>60000 tonnes) in future.

3. Its not just a no. game PAKFA is a 5th gen fighter it can change the whole game even if deployed in lesser no. in comparision to Mig29 or NLCA

4. With PAKFA prototypes already flying n all the experience that of Russkis n HAL(NLCA) have i don't think Naval PAKFA would be something to expensive that we can't afford n besides it would give us a chance to be part of the design process of a Naval 5th gen fighter which was largely missed during PAKFA.

5. I don't see AMCA flying in sky anytime before 2025 that too if everything goes as planned, so i think it would be better if we exclude if from this discussion.

6. My suggestion was in response to suggestions of inducting F35