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F-16s & Orions used as a threat

My comments are also supported by the PAF decision to acquire a French radar and missile for the JF-17s.. So there.. They do acknowledge, that they are much safer there, but even in that they have the Chinese radar to keep diversification of the PAF technology.

Dear WM,

Just wait and watch. The EU reaction will be worse than the US reaction. France, UK, Sweden will impose severe sanctions on Pakistan as they are not in anyway involved in the WOT and the Human Rights Organisations in this countries will and can exert severe pressure on their Govts.

Regards
 
European Union govts under pressure to act against Musharraf -DAWN - Top Stories; November 06, 2007


European Union govts under pressure to act against Musharraf



By Shadaba Islam

BRUSSELS, Nov 5: The European Union governments on Monday came under strong pressure from human rights organisations, members of the European Parliament and journalist associations to stop support for President Gen Pervez Musharraf following the imposition of emergency.

“Of course it is not business as usual” in EU relations with Pakistan, senior European Commission official Helen Campbell told a public hearing on Pakistan at the European Parliament’s sub-committee on human rights.

EU policymakers are reflecting on how best to react to the measures which have been condemned by the bloc’s foreign policy chief Javier Solana and in a joint statement issued by EU envoys in Islamabad.

No immediate aid cut-off is planned given that most of the EU’s 50 million euro aid programme in Pakistan focuses on health, education and projects for promoting women’s status. Many governments believe suspending aid would penalise the people of Pakistan, not the government. Most of this money is channelled to Pakistan through non-governmental organizations.

But budgetary assistance to the Pakistani government — a small portion of the aid programme — is expected to be reviewed. This is also likely to include EU trade with Pakistan, especially tariff preferences given to the country’s textile exports under the bloc’s generalised system of preferences.

While policy measures may take time to be implemented, the EU has certainly made no secret of its concern and dismay at Musharraf’s action.

“I believe that any deviation from the general democratic process cannot be a solution,” Mr Solana warned in a statement, adding: “Abandoning the path to democracy is not the answer.”

EU envoys have repeated that free and fair elections must be held on schedule and said there must be a restoration of civilian rule, respect for the independence of the judiciary and freedom of the media.

President Musharraf must pursue political reconciliation in the national interest, restore the constitutional order and release all political detainees as soon as possible, the envoys insisted.

While recognising that Pakistan faces threats to its peace and security, the envoys said that stability and development could only be achieved with democracy and the rule of law.

With the arrest and detention of judges, lawyers and human rights activists, the Pakistani president had “eviscerated the very people he needs to work with” to bring democracy to Pakistan, Brad Adams, Asia Director for Human Rights Watch, told a public hearing on Pakistan organised by the European Parliament’s sub-committee on human rights.

Mr Adams said Pakistan’s independent media and strong judiciary were the “bright spots” on the country’s landscape. He complimented Pakistan’s “incredibly brave human rights defenders”, including Asma Jehangir and I.A. Rehman.“The EU should review every single programme with Pakistan,” said Mr Adams, saying the bloc must send a message that it was not business as usual with the government.

European parliamentarians voiced scepticism at Gen Musharraf’s assertion that elections would still be held and called for the immediate lifting of the state of emergency.

The Brussels-based International Federation of Journalists warned that “the elimination of free expression and imposition of censorship will increase levels of fear, ignorance and rumour.

Pakistan will only find peace and stability through respect for the rule of law and the people’s right to know. By putting troops in the newsrooms, the government seems to have abandoned both,” said Aidan White, IFJ General Secretary.
 
Netherlands suspends aid -DAWN - Top Stories; November 06, 2007

Netherlands suspends aid

THE HAGUE, Nov 5: The Netherlands has suspended aid to Pakistan after the imposition of emergency rule, Dutch Development Aid Minister Bert Koenders said on Monday.

“This is a dramatic coup d’etat that we strongly disapprove of and that undermines Pakistan’s democracy, development and population,” the minister told the ANP news agency.

The Netherlands had budgeted some 15 million euros in aid to Pakistan for 2007, of which some 12 million euros has been spent.

The remainder was now suspended, the minister’s spokesman Franceso Mascini said.

For the next year, the Netherlands had planned to give some 40 million euros in aid to Pakistan, mostly for education, which is now under review.

—AFP
 
UK wants Musharraf to quit army by 15th -DAWN - Top Stories; November 06, 2007

UK wants Musharraf to quit army by 15th


By Our Special Correspondent

LONDON, Nov 5: Britain has urged President General Pervez Musharraf to confirm that he will step down as army chief by Nov 15 and hold elections in January 2008. A spokesperson for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said in a statement on Monday that Britain recognised the threat to peace and stability but pointed out that it was essential that Pakistan used normal process for the purpose of restoring peace and stability.

Britain has also urged Gen Musharraf to release all political prisoners, including members of judiciary “as soon as possible”.

“We are still considering the implications for our development and other programmes in Pakistan. We are seriously concerned and have asked General Musharraf to restore constitutional order as soon as possible,” said the statement.
“We are urging Musharraf to take urgent steps towards reconciliation with political oppositeion.”

“We are urging President Musharraf to confirm that he will step down as army chief by Nov 15.”
 
Dear WM,

Just wait and watch. The EU reaction will be worse than the US reaction. France, UK, Sweden will impose severe sanctions on Pakistan as they are not in anyway involved in the WOT and the Human Rights Organisations in this countries will and can exert severe pressure on their Govts.

Regards

Then you'd be wrong "Always Neutral" (noone could be more neutral than you).

"Britain said it had no current plans to change the $493 million it has budgeted in aid to Pakistan over three years."
The Associated Press: Western Nations Reconsider Pakistan Aid

So far only the Dutch seem to be doing anything, and they pay pittance anyway.

Musharraf should (and I suspect will) just do what is best for Pakistan, not this illusion of democracy. I don't know how some of these countries think mere tens of millions is going to make Musharraf do something that will make the country lose billions to corrupt leaders. The biggest investment comes from UAE anyway.
 
Except India all the world powers say what Gen M did was wrong.

World urges return to rule of law in Pakistan - Yahoo! News

Sun Nov 4, 3:44 AM ET



HONG KONG (AFP) - World leaders urged a swift return to democracy and the rule of law after President Pervez Musharraf imposed emergency rule in Pakistan, although some allies stopped short of outright condemnation.

Musharraf -- a key US ally in the fight against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban -- declared a state of emergency late Saturday, fired the nation's top judge and suspended the constitution.

In a televised nationwide address, he cited Islamic extremism and judicial interference, saying terrorism in Pakistan was at its peak and the government was in "semi-paralysis" through the behaviour of the Supreme Court.

"This action is very disappointing," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said in a statement.

"President Musharraf needs to stand by his pledges to have free and fair elections in January and step down as chief of army staff before retaking the presidential oath of office."

Another of Pakistan's closest allies, China, expressed concern over Musharraf's move.

"We are concerned about the situation in Pakistan, and believe the Pakistani government and people are capable of solving their problems," foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao was quoted as telling the official Xinhua news agency.

The state of emergency throws into doubt parliamentary elections slated for January, as well as a power-sharing deal between Musharraf and former premier Benazir Bhutto, which Washington has been pushing for.

In his address, Musharraf spoke in English after addressing his countrymen in Urdu, saying he had a message for the world and Pakistan's "friends" in the United States, the European Union and the Commonwealth.

"Kindly understand the criticality of the situation in Pakistan and around Pakistan. Pakistan is on the verge of destabilisation," he said.

A Pentagon spokesman said Washington had no plans at this point to suspend military aid to Pakistan.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said: "Whatever happens, we will be urging for a quick return to a constitutional order, we will be urging that the commitment to hold free and fair elections be kept and we would be urging calm among the parties."

In Britain, Pakistan's ex-colonial ruler, Foreign Secretary David Miliband called on the nation to harness "the power of democracy and the rule of law to achieve the goals of stability, development and countering terrorism."

"I am gravely concerned by the measures adopted today, which will take Pakistan further from these goals," said Miliband in a statement.

In Paris, the foreign ministry voiced French "concern" and urged Musharraf to "maintain the rule of law."

France "wants dialogue between all Pakistani political forces to guarantee stability and democracy in this great country, which is a partner and a friend," it said.

In Brussels, the European Union's executive arm voiced similar concern.

Commonwealth Secretary-General Don McKinnon said emergency rule "is a step in the wrong direction and a serious setback to democracy."

Pakistan was expelled from the 53-nation club for five years when Musharraf seized power in 1999.


Strong US ally Australia, which has troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, urged Pakistan to return to constitutional rule.

Foreign Minister Robert Downer acknowledged Pakistan, which shares a border with Afghanistan, faced difficult security challenges but said democratic processes needed to be maintained.

Reaction was more muted in India, Pakistan's neighbour and nuclear rival, its foreign ministry merely expressing "regrets" at Musharraf's move.

"We wish them stability and we look forward to conditions which will facilitate conditions for democracy to be restored in that country," said India's junior foreign minister Anand Sharma.

Musharraf's political rivals were unsparing in their criticism.

Bhutto told Britain's Sky News television that the country was regressing towards greater dictatorship, later telling CNN that Musharraf's move would only encourage extremists.

Another ex-premier, Nawaz Sharif, who was ousted by Musharraf in the 1999 coup, urged him to step down, telling the private Geo television Pakistan was heading towards chaos.

Opposition politician and cricket icon Imran Khan went further, suggesting Musharraf had committed treason, which was punishable by death.
 
Always Neutral said:
Except India all the world powers say what Gen M did was wrong.


^^Stop inventing lies dude. Your article doesn't say all the world leaders were saying what Mush did was wrong (some said it was wrong/disappointed, others just expressed concern..this doesnt mean they're saying it's wrong). Also, your article doesn't even mention India! Kindly stop inventing things !!
 
Then you'd be wrong "Always Neutral" (noone could be more neutral than you).

"Britain said it had no current plans to change the $493 million it has budgeted in aid to Pakistan over three years."
The Associated Press: Western Nations Reconsider Pakistan Aid

.


Dear RR,

Hope you are right as i know Gen M is going through a tough phase. However you must understand that the Emergency took place on the weekend. The world just woke upto it on Monday. Mrs A Jahangir of your Human Rights Commission is very well respected and now similiar organisations in EU will start pressurising the EU Govts for sanctions and in a week or two the voices will get larger and more powerfull. Just wait and watch.

Regards
 
Mrs A Jahangir of your Human Rights Commission is very well respected and now similiar organisations in EU will start pressurising the EU Govts for sanctions and in a week or two the voices will get larger and more powerfull. Just wait and watch.

Yes, yes Always "Neutral", i'm sure you were watching this in your crystal ball, since you obviously know the future. I've no doubts that this situation will be over with soon, and elections are going to be held more or less on time. This seems to be over removing the judiciary, who were hampering the road to democracy.
 
^^Stop inventing lies dude. Your article doesn't say all the world leaders were saying what Mush did was wrong (some said it was wrong/disappointed, others just expressed concern..this doesnt mean they're saying it's wrong). Also, your article doesn't even mention India! Kindly stop inventing things !!

Firstly RR please read the article carefully agains before you say the article doesnot even mention India. Incase you are shortsighted I am pasting it below.

[B said:
Reaction was more muted in India, Pakistan's neighbour and nuclear rival, its foreign ministry merely expressing "regrets" at Musharraf's move. "We wish them stability and we look forward to conditions which will facilitate conditions for democracy to be restored in that country," said India's junior foreign minister Anand Sharma.
[B said:
=QUOTE][/B]

Next thing learn something about diplomacy no country can criticise the Gen M or Pakistan openly and all this is done behind closed door meetings. All EU Govts will come under severe pressure to act and hence they are making guarded statements now. Behind closed doors in the comming weeks all Pakistani Ambassadors will be told the actual implications. Just wait and watch or you may have to eat your words.

Regards

Ps : All my posts are from EU and Pakistani Press and not Indian Press so chill out and stop accusing me of inventing news.
 
Yes, yes Always "Neutral", i'm sure you were watching this in your crystal ball, since you obviously know the future. I've no doubts that this situation will be over with soon, and elections are going to be held more or less on time. This seems to be over removing the judiciary, who were hampering the road to democracy.

Then why did your PM say that elections maybe postponed for a year ? I have no doubt EU and US pressure will force elections by end Jan 2008. Have you noticed how muted Mrs BB is in her criticism ? She probably knows that at this moment what lies ahead and hence is keeping quiet.

Regards
 
Right, so it does mention India..I'm wrong on that..but it says India had "regrets"..the Chinese response is more muted than that expressing "concern". ""We are concerned about the situation in Pakistan, and believe the Pakistani government and people are capable of solving their problems,"". Whatever, anyway, I still stick to my original line, you're inventing things, or exagerrating them..but then you would never do that, being "Always Neutral" :disagree:
 
Khaleej Times Online >> News >> SUBCONTINENT
Pakistan state of emergency “very worrying’: Sweden
(AFP)

3 November 2007



STOCKHOLM - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf’s decision to declare a state of emergency is “very worrying” and could lead to an escalation of violence, Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said on Saturday.


“There is a risk that confrontations and conflicts in the country will now escalate,” he said.

“This is serious and very worrying. This is absolutely not the solution to Pakistan’s problems.”

Musharraf declared a state of emergency on Saturday, saying that judges were interfering with the government and that Islamic militancy posed a grave threat to the country.

Troops and police surrounded the Supreme Court in Islamabad, which had been due in coming days to give a verdict on the legality of military ruler Musharraf’s victory in an October 6 presidential election.

All land and mobile telephone lines went down shortly after the declaration while private television channels were taken off the air as tension gripped the normally placid capital.

Bildt said his staff had been unable to make contact with the Swedish embassy in Islamabad.
 
Right, so it does mention India..I'm wrong on that..but it says India had "regrets"..the Chinese response is more muted than that expressing "concern". ""We are concerned about the situation in Pakistan, and believe the Pakistani government and people are capable of solving their problems,"". Whatever, anyway, I still stick to my original line, you're inventing things, or exagerrating them..but then you would never do that, being "Always Neutral" :disagree:

Just sometimes stop and smell the grass (not pot). Has it crossed your mind why China one of Pakistan's staunchest friends needs to comment on Pakistan's internal affairs ?

Regards
 
Just sometimes stop and smell the grass (not pot). Has it crossed your mind why China one of Pakistan's staunchest friends needs to comment on Pakistan's internal affairs ?

Regards

China actually said some good words. They're concerned (as anyone would be), and they think it's an internal issue to be solved as Pakistan sees fit.

"""We are concerned about the situation in Pakistan, and believe the Pakistani government and people are capable of solving their problems,""

Do you see where it says what's happened is WRONG? No. But of course, I'm smoking pot, because I can't see where every country is saying "what Gen M did was wrong". They're not saying that, some have just expressed concern, which is not the same as wrong :agree:
 
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