Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[SQ8]

The planned replacement of J-7 is the J-10. Large numbers J-7s were phased out in the last couple
of years and some 200 J-10s have arrived to take their place. If JF-17 was to replace the J-7, it should
have been in service by now.

Many PLAAF officers evaluated JF-17, everyone favoured the J-10 over it. It must be remembered
that JF-17 is a budget plane with limited capabilities in several aspects, but with room for
future upgrade, designed for cash-strapped countries with small defence spending.

china now has all the money it needs, they are ready to take the more capable aircraft out of the
two here, albeit at greater cost, and they ain't fools to buy unfavourable aircraft for someone's sake.

Have a interview, a news article.. an uncle??to back that statement with utmost certainty?
Sounds like a whole lot of hogwash from you in the past 4 posts.. trying to back up your core argument that the JF is crap.. not working.. really.

 

[The A-5]

Have a interview, a news article.. an uncle??to back that statement with utmost certainty?

For those who have interviews, articles, and uncles in PLAAF who say JF-17 is better
than J-10 and that PLAAF should buy JF-17 over J-10: You dont know what you're speaking

Sounds like a whole lot of hogwash from you in the past 4 posts

Which of my above points were invalid? Dont let patriotism blind a clean view of things, as they are.

trying to back up your core argument that the JF is crap

There is your feeling of insecurity, as I've read mod Taimikhan once said to some member
"before any trolls came over you did the act of trolling yourself". Oscar saab, I never said JF-17
as crap or useless, Ive said that it is designed as a stop-gap measure for cash-strapped air
forces but with room for nice upgrades later on as per the customer's wishes and convienence.

Denying this doesn't make JF-17 the apple of everyone's eye. If you want it to be like that,
work on upgrading it to that standard. The entire plane built with a churn of metal alloys doesn't
make a modern aircraft, but still it can fire missiles and drop bombs, and thats the point
people should appreciate it till.

not working.. really.

It doesn't work cuz I didn't meant to at all!

 

[fatman17]

read all the blah, blah blah - the point is this - JFT is a PK specific platform with or without planned upgrades. it replaces the A-5,F-7 and the mirages in our inventory and is a upgrade when compared to those platforms. it makes the PAF better. china has not ruled out inducting the FC-1 (not JFT) in the PLAAF as it cannot make up the numbers lost (F-6, F-7) with the J-10 alone. its priority is the J-10 as it is a heavier multi-role platform as compared to the FC-1(JFT). both the FC-1 and J-10 will be sold to foreign airforces only when equipped with a chinese engine. hence the delay in any potential sales. must not be misconstrued as there is 'no interest' in the FC-1 or the JFT. i can understand the indian viewpoint which is and remains negative in its discourse.

 

[umair86]

Still JF-17 is better than LCA as its in service which LCA isn't.

 

[SQ8]

For those who have interviews, articles, and uncles in PLAAF who say JF-17 is better
than J-10 and that PLAAF should buy JF-17 over J-10: You dont know what you're speaking



Which of my above points were invalid? Dont let patriotism blind a clean view of things, as they are.



There is your feeling of insecurity, as I've read mod Taimikhan once said to some member
"before any trolls came over you did the act of trolling yourself". Oscar saab, I never said JF-17
as crap or useless, Ive said that it is designed as a stop-gap measure for cash-strapped air
forces but with room for nice upgrades later on as per the customer's wishes and convienence.

Denying this doesn't make JF-17 the apple of everyone's eye. If you want it to be like that,
work on upgrading it to that standard. The entire plane built with a churn of metal alloys doesn't
make a modern aircraft, but still it can fire missiles and drop bombs, and thats the point
people should appreciate it till.



It doesn't work cuz I didn't meant to at all!

Neither do you.. your whole argument is based on a false understanding of the JF-17's role and are trying to compare it to the J-10.. You have no idea of the fighters evaluation by the joint team or anything.
Blind patriotism has nothing to do with spotting incorrect tirades... such as PLAAF officers evaluation..
When you make that statement , you better be able to back it up. Cowering behind accusations of "insecurity" " dont know anything" means jack here . You dont know jack about the PLAAF evaluation, why make up a statement for it?

 

[The A-5]

Neither do you.. your whole argument is based on a false understanding of the JF-17's role and are trying to compare it to the J-10.. You have no idea of the fighters evaluation by the joint team or anything.
Blind patriotism has nothing to do with spotting incorrect tirades... such as PLAAF officers evaluation..
When you make that statement , you better be able to back it up. Cowering behind accusations of "insecurity" " dont know anything" means jack here . You dont know jack about the PLAAF evaluation, why make up a statement for it?

Are you implying that PLAAF never evaulated JF-17/FC-1. Or that J-10 is not better than JF-17.

Look at the threats they face - MiG-29UPG, Su-30MKI, F-16 Blk-50/52, F-15C Eagle, to combat these
aircraft PLAAF needs whatever aircraft that performs better than the other. J-10 performs better thab
JF-17, hence they stuck to it. JF-17 is not the kind of iarcraft to combat these platforms, not in its
current form.

I said "insecurity" coz you jumped to saying that jf-17 is crap while i never said that word, neither meant
it. PLAAF inducts aircraft as per its doctrine and J-10 is best suited for that, you may ask any defence
expert what aircraft china would prefer, J-10 or JF-17, to build an air force as a counterbalance to
USAF superiority.

read all the blah, blah blah - the point is this - JFT is a PK specific platform with or without planned upgrades. it replaces the A-5,F-7 and the mirages in our inventory and is a upgrade when compared to those platforms. it makes the PAF better. china has not ruled out inducting the FC-1 (not JFT) in the PLAAF as it cannot make up the numbers lost (F-6, F-7) with the J-10 alone. its priority is the J-10 as it is a heavier multi-role platform as compared to the FC-1(JFT). both the FC-1 and J-10 will be sold to foreign airforces only when equipped with a chinese engine. hence the delay in any potential sales. must not be misconstrued as there is 'no interest' in the FC-1 or the JFT. i can understand the indian viewpoint which is and remains negative in its discourse.

As per 2007 DIA intelligence reports, china may end up building 1200 J-10 total, to replace ALL
J-7 (450), J-8 (200), A-5 (350), in service.

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...bUrGD9CGh4LtnhSYQ&sig2=hraTpb7HF-njuPhtlfAmuw

Still JF-17 is better than LCA as its in service which LCA isn't.

yeah and mig-21 is better than f-35 in that case, lollz

 

[SQ8]

Are you implying that PLAAF never evaulated JF-17/FC-1. Or that J-10 is not better than JF-17.

Simply prove your statement, that the PLAAF on this day and date evaluated the Jf-17 and said that it does not suit us or our needs. Or what the details of their evaluation to replace the J-7's was.

You made a statement, do not dither or divert from it.
I am well aware of what the PLAAF faces and what it should or should not get.
But you made a statement, PROVE IT.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

For those who have interviews, articles, and uncles in PLAAF who say JF-17 is better
than J-10 and that PLAAF should buy JF-17 over J-10: You dont know what you're speaking



Which of my above points were invalid? Dont let patriotism blind a clean view of things, as they are.



There is your feeling of insecurity, as I've read mod Taimikhan once said to some member
"before any trolls came over you did the act of trolling yourself". Oscar saab, I never said JF-17
as crap or useless, Ive said that it is designed as a stop-gap measure for cash-strapped air
forces but with room for nice upgrades later on as per the customer's wishes and convienence.

Denying this doesn't make JF-17 the apple of everyone's eye. If you want it to be like that,
work on upgrading it to that standard. The entire plane built with a churn of metal alloys doesn't
make a modern aircraft, but still it can fire missiles and drop bombs, and thats the point
people should appreciate it till.



It doesn't work cuz I didn't meant to at all!

buddy cool it
you lost the plot already.

China has a lot of money yes .. but its not a bottomless pit.
J-10 wont be replacing J-7s on 1 on 1 bases. its not feasible, wasteful and utterly stupid.

depending on roles, functions and need.. the air forces go for a perfect mix. this is why light and MBT tanks co-exist
this is why American forces fly the cobras and the Apache side by side just like they did F-16 and F-15 and now they would do the same with their Gen5 planes.

the capabilities of J-17 have nothing to do with patriotism. we Pakistanis are very critical and suspicious lot of our things. we wont sapre a moment to call it if there are any thing lacklustre about JF-17. it has far exceeded the exceptions of CAC and PAC and we are loving it. if China decides to convert all its current fleet to J-20 then so be it, but they are not that stupid to do that to please you
they are smart and they know where and how much to spend and when JF-17 will be more than fulfilling the roles of some of the J-7 squadrons then they wont go for a bigger plane. granted J-10 will be their most visible plane but just like a Chinese Monk, the Chinese Air force will have a lot of different weapons up its sleeve to keep the enemy at bay

 

[Luftwaffe]

Yeah bcoz they already had 400+ Flankers in service. One thing to keep in mind before posting, Su-30 (the original one) was nothing but an improved twin-seat variant of Su-27PG. Russia
doesn't need Su-30 here coz Su-27 is there to fulfill the same role.

Foreign countries bought large numbers of both single-seat Su-27 & twin-seat Su-30, as per their individual doctrine and requirement, customized variants like MKI came later.

If china were to induct the FC-1 (the original Super-7) into operational service and put the customized JF-17 for sale, this comment of yours would have made sense. But PLAAF is interested in neither FC-1 or JF-17, they only want more J-10s.

Wrong example, they still operate 1000s of other F-16 variants, blk-60 is not a whole new aircraft,not the case with JF-17. Would have been the case if china inducts JFT block-1 and puts block-2 and 3 for sale.

Same wrong example. F-15SE is only an improvement to a platform that was well-proven in USAF,JF-17 is a platform nowhere in PLAAF service.

You are wrong on all accounts...By you own logic you proved your ownself wrong...

Alot of information regarding all blocks of F-16 in on the Net google it.

SU-30 is in limited numbers in russian air force by your logic this is the reason PLAAF might not be inducting fc-1 because they have J-10A in good numbers...

PS Those 400+ su-27 variants are 25 years old most of them need replacement due to poor maintenance and bad economy russians are keeping them fly worthy for a decade before su-35 kicks in good numbers.

F-15SE has many modifications upgrades and design changes those changes would go through trails and tests Yet it is for the export, USAF has no interest in it even though it is much cheaper then F-35A/B.

Advice...go through JFT Thread, F-16 Thread, better research on PLAAF-PLANF doctrine and research on F-16BLK 60/F-15SE.

 

[Manticore]

Ive said that it is designed as a stop-gap measure for cash-strapped air
forces but with room for nice upgrades later on as per the customer's wishes and convienence.

Denying this doesn't make JF-17 the apple of everyone's eye. If you want it

What are the aerodynamic design deficiencies in jft ,
how can they be rectified ,
does paf docitrine dictate most of these rectifications ,
what other fighters planes of jft's class would you like paf to buy ,
compare jft with those fighters


please answer the above so we can have a discussion

 

[VCheng]

What are the aerodynamic design deficiencies in jft ,
how can they be rectified ,
does paf docitrine dictate most of these rectifications ,
what other fighters planes of jft's class would you like paf to buy ,
compare jft with those fighters


please answer the above so we can have a discussion

As a general-purpose cost-effective platform, the JF-17 is pretty good, but would be more competitive with a better engine. The present powerplant is simply not enough.

 

[Arsalan]

the JFT might well end up in PLAAF to support JF-10 but do this really matter to PAF? i don't think so..

PAF have shown complete confidence in JFT project and the bird is well on track. The upgrades were planned and will come through at regular intervals and JF-17 will surely be improved considerably in all aspects.

Moreover, for PAF, it is a perfect, value for money, highly competent aircraft that they are able to call there own with PAC involved in development and production.
as for the ages old comment of JF-17 being Cheap and thus not capable, you better have a look at comparison of wages and materials costs in west and PAC!!

The most credible source to tell you about the bird, if off-course its user, the PAF.... its a better judge then either an interview or an uncle, they are happy with it... they talk good about it and rank it among the best.
if they are confident flying this machine and ready to face enemy and put there life on line in JFT, i am confident that the plane do have something in it..

for technical details, you can have a look at http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/71435-jf-17-thunder-information-pool.html or fighter aircraft designs and this will give you an idea of how good the JFT, its design and performance characteristics are!!!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...aracteristics-canard-non-canard-fighters.html
@ A-5
i am sorry to say this A-5 but looking at your flag and few of your last posts, I seriously hope this WON,T help!!
regards!

 

[Storm Force]

Most of YOU including seniors are SO FAR OFF TRACK ITS astonishing

I cant believe there some people (seniors including) who think AIR FORCES replace a large fleet of F7 with a equally large fleet of J10

it DOES not work like that.

A single J10 CAN DO THE the job of 5 F7 or A5s

Likwise a sinle SU30MKI CAN DO THE job of 10 mig21 or A SINGLE F22 raptor the JOB of 5 x 15E eagles...

SO

When people harp on about THE PLAAF need JF17 to replace 2000 F7 & A5 they are talking nonsense.

THE PLAAF transformation from a predominte 2nd & 3rd generation fleet of 3000 obselete F6 F7 & J8 to a world class fleet of 1500 xx J10 J11 J15 SU30/27 and J20 WILL BE ACHIEVED with a much smaller fleet of fighters


In this fleet the J10 will play the single engined multi role fighter role
The FLANKERS the twin engined multi rolers
THE J20 the 5th generation roles

Thunder will not be needed as those 3 combat types will more far more lethel, efficent and effective on potential adveraries

Anybody who doubts PLAAF ability to induct 1500 LATE 4TH GEN fighters just lok at CHINA,s $150 BILLION annual defense budget

PS

JFT is stil useful for small budget air forces who need a 4 generation fighter in decent nos

 

[The A-5]

You are wrong on all accounts...By you own logic you proved your ownself wrong...

Alot of information regarding all blocks of F-16 in on the Net google it.

Ive read much about Fighting Falcon But USAF here has got 1000s of F-16 Blk-50 class and
earlier, they might not consider to upgrade them coz in about the next 4-5 years they'll induct the
F-35A Lightning-II.

Blk-60 "Desert Falcon", F-16IN , and F-16V and specifically designed to tailor the needs of export markets
(Blk-60 for UAE, F-16IN for IAF in MMRCA) and not meant for USAF, the new F-16V is to be offered as
an upgrade package for some F16-operators who might not be able to afford the uber-costly F-35 to replace
them in future.

SU-30 is in limited numbers in russian air force by your logic this is the reason PLAAF might not be inducting fc-1 because they have J-10A in good numbers...

My point exactly! They dont need FC-1/JFT coz they have the J-10 in better shape and sufficient numbers.
JF-17/FC-1 and J-10A can hardly be considered variants of the same design whatsover. Besides,
VVS doctrine does not revolve around twin-seat aircraft.

But lemme tell you that the Russian Navy, black sea fleet and some sqdns of AF are going to
induct the Su-30SM in good numbers. SM is derived directly from MKI, it has the same engines,
same canards, same radar, except non-availability of some Israeli avionics, its basically
the same MKI. Google about it.

F-15SE has many modifications upgrades and design changes those changes would go through trails and tests Yet it is for the export, USAF has no interest in it even though it is much cheaper then F-35A/B.

The F-15 is the American flanker. The point I implied above applies for this too.

What are the aerodynamic design deficiencies in jft ,
how can they be rectified ,
does paf docitrine dictate most of these rectifications ,
what other fighters planes of jft's class would you like paf to buy ,
compare jft with those fighters


please answer the above so we can have a discussion

Whats wrong with everyone? Why is it understood as if Im saying JF-17 is not a good aircraft.

I mean to say for PLAAF needs, J-10 is better than JF-17. Thats all!

Its it so simple.

the JFT might well end up in PLAAF to support JF-10 but do this really matter to PAF? i don't think so..

PAF have shown complete confidence in JFT project and the bird is well on track. The upgrades were planned and will come through at regular intervals and JF-17 will surely be improved considerably in all aspects.

Moreover, for PAF, it is a perfect, value for money, highly competent aircraft that they are able to call there own with PAC involved in development and production.
as for the ages old comment of JF-17 being Cheap and thus not capable, you better have a look at comparison of wages and materials costs in west and PAC!!

The most credible source to tell you about the bird, if off-course its user, the PAF.... its a better judge then either an interview or an uncle, they are happy with it... they talk good about it and rank it among the best.
if they are confident flying this machine and ready to face enemy and put there life on line in JFT, i am confident that the plane do have something in it..

for technical details, you can have a look at http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/71435-jf-17-thunder-information-pool.html or fighter aircraft designs and this will give you an idea of how good the JFT, its design and performance characteristics are!!!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...aracteristics-canard-non-canard-fighters.html
@ A-5
i am sorry to say this A-5 but looking at your flag and few of your last posts, I seriously hope this WON,T help!!
regards!

Oh boy, oh boy. For PAF, jf-17 is the best choice I agree 100% for that.
But im talking about PLAAF's needs here!

With sufficient money in hand and a choice given to decide, china will always
go for J-10 over JF-17, the JFT does not offer sufficient capabities for PLAAF to combat
IAF + USAF threshold in future.

 

[fatman17]

As per 2007 DIA intelligence reports, china may end up building 1200 J-10 total, to replace ALL
J-7 (450), J-8 (200), A-5 (350), in service.

the figure for J-7 runs in the 1000's. F-6 also the same.

Most of YOU including seniors are SO FAR OFF TRACK ITS astonishing

I cant believe there some people (seniors including) who think AIR FORCES replace a large fleet of F7 with a equally large fleet of J10

it DOES not work like that.

A single J10 CAN DO THE the job of 5 F7 or A5s

Likwise a sinle SU30MKI CAN DO THE job of 10 mig21 or A SINGLE F22 raptor the JOB of 5 x 15E eagles...

SO

When people harp on about THE PLAAF need JF17 to replace 2000 F7 & A5 they are talking nonsense.

THE PLAAF transformation from a predominte 2nd & 3rd generation fleet of 3000 obselete F6 F7 & J8 to a world class fleet of 1500 xx J10 J11 J15 SU30/27 and J20 WILL BE ACHIEVED with a much smaller fleet of fighters


In this fleet the J10 will play the single engined multi role fighter role
The FLANKERS the twin engined multi rolers
THE J20 the 5th generation roles

Thunder will not be needed as those 3 combat types will more far more lethel, efficent and effective on potential adveraries

Anybody who doubts PLAAF ability to induct 1500 LATE 4TH GEN fighters just lok at CHINA,s $150 BILLION annual defense budget

PS

JFT is stil useful for small budget air forces who need a 4 generation fighter in decent nos

your mail is 'astonishing' - your claims are 'astonishing' - you are 'astonishing'

Most of YOU including seniors are SO FAR OFF TRACK ITS astonishing

I cant believe there some people (seniors including) who think AIR FORCES replace a large fleet of F7 with a equally large fleet of J10

it DOES not work like that.

A single J10 CAN DO THE the job of 5 F7 or A5s

Likwise a sinle SU30MKI CAN DO THE job of 10 mig21 or A SINGLE F22 raptor the JOB of 5 x 15E eagles...

SO

When people harp on about THE PLAAF need JF17 to replace 2000 F7 & A5 they are talking nonsense.

THE PLAAF transformation from a predominte 2nd & 3rd generation fleet of 3000 obselete F6 F7 & J8 to a world class fleet of 1500 xx J10 J11 J15 SU30/27 and J20 WILL BE ACHIEVED with a much smaller fleet of fighters


In this fleet the J10 will play the single engined multi role fighter role
The FLANKERS the twin engined multi rolers
THE J20 the 5th generation roles

Thunder will not be needed as those 3 combat types will more far more lethel, efficent and effective on potential adveraries

Anybody who doubts PLAAF ability to induct 1500 LATE 4TH GEN fighters just lok at CHINA,s $150 BILLION annual defense budget

PS

JFT is stil useful for small budget air forces who need a 4 generation fighter in decent nos

going by your utterly illogical logic why does india need the LCA when it has the SU-30MKK or the Rafale