Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[phrozenflame]

Im not in favor of offering JF-17 to Africans or any unstable country, this is a lethal machine at par with F-16 block 52 , offering them to any rough state is like devaluing our product. We should not be in hurry to offer our blk3s for sales

How does it devalue anything? Everyone sells and everyone who buys, buys. Dog eat dog world. Nobody 'cares', this is how it works. We do what is in interest of our citizens. If this brings $s, it brings $s. International relations are about self-interest, only.

 

[SABRE]

Argentina: Fuerza Aérea Argentina (Air force) has had a tough time trying to re-arm it’s combat forces due to budgetary constraints and export restrictions by UK. This leaves Argentina with very limited options of trying to procure a capable fighter aircraft. All these factors play to the strengths of JF-17. Pakistan faced similar scenarios of import restrictions and budgetary constraints and JF-17 project was designed from get-go to counter these factors. Argentina has allocated USD 664 million for purchase of 12 JF-17 Block IIIs. USD 20 million is for supporting infrastructure. This allocation has been made but the final decision is yet to occur. Argentina would find it difficult to procure any other aircraft that matches the capabilities of JF-17 Block IIIs at such prices. However, political spoilers are still possible. US would likely make an aggressive proposal to counter expansion of Chinese defense exports in South America.

Exports sales prospects of JF-17 | JF-17 Thunder

The export prospects of JF-17 Thunder continue to grow. Successful sales of 16 aircrafts to Myanmar and 3 to Nigeria (with option for more) have been concluded. Currently, publicly we know that the talks are going on with Argentina, Azerbaijan and Iraq. JF-17 was also the leading contender for...

jf-17.com

Upside: The US has a better platform to offer (i.e., F-16 or even F-18)/
Downside: The US would offer these platforms virtually toothless. Probably with no AMRAAM missiles.

 

[MastanKhan]

Im not in favor of offering JF-17 to Africans or any unstable country, this is a lethal machine at par with F-16 block 52 , offering them to any rough state is like devaluing our product. We should not be in hurry to offer our blk3s for sales

Hi,

You are correct---. It only needs to be sold to selective nations---who are able and capable.

The product should not be cheapened.

 

[Ghessan]

Im not in favor of offering JF-17 to Africans or any unstable country, this is a lethal machine at par with F-16 block 52 , offering them to any rough state is like devaluing our product. We should not be in hurry to offer our blk3s for sales

i agree, a potential is to perform when time comes and it comes with a responsible and capable air force.

also when i see these news/inquiries pop out from various countries, it give me an answer to this question which often arise, why Pakistan make 58% or whatever it is of the whole aircraft. it is kind of an assurance to the procuring country of no sanctions also avoids pressure on manufacturing country to halt the sales.

Argentina is an example where Britain can put pressure on Pakistan and break the deal if it goes through but the sale through China would let it go.

 

[Danish Moazzam]

Hi,

You are correct---. It only needs to be sold to selective nations---who are able and capable.

The product should not be cheapened.

The statement does not carry weight as the big ones in PAF have already decided to market it as cheap.

They should have marketed it as cost effective but no. Cheap was the magic word.

 

[Skywalker]

When you are start selling your product just by calling it cheap rather than effective you loose almost half of the value and in some cases respect as well. This is why product placement is so important.

 

[Beast]

Exports sales prospects of JF-17

The export prospects of JF-17 Thunder continue to grow. Successful sales of 16 aircrafts to Myanmar and 3 to Nigeria (with option for more) have been concluded.
Currently, publicly we know that the talks are going on with Argentina, Azerbaijan and Iraq. JF-17 was also the leading contender for Malaysia’s procurement program but the deal could not materialize due the the South China sea dispute and ultimately JF-17 tender was not submitted by Pakistan or China.

Argentina: Fuerza Aérea Argentina (Air force) has had a tough time trying to re-arm it’s combat forces due to budgetary constraints and export restrictions by UK. This leaves Argentina with very limited options of trying to procure a capable fighter aircraft. All these factors play to the strengths of JF-17. Pakistan faced similar scenarios of import restrictions and budgetary constraints and JF-17 project was designed from get-go to counter these factors. Argentina has allocated USD 664 million for purchase of 12 JF-17 Block IIIs. USD 20 million is for supporting infrastructure. This allocation has been made but the final decision is yet to occur. Argentina would find it difficult to procure any other aircraft that matches the capabilities of JF-17 Block IIIs at such prices. However, political spoilers are still possible. US would likely make an aggressive proposal to counter expansion of Chinese defense exports in South America.

Azerbaijan: The defense attaché of Azerbaijan recently reiterated the interest in buying JF-17. Politically, the relations between Pakistan and Azerbaijan have improved greatly over the last few years especially after Nogorno-Karabakh conflict, where, Pakistan, along with Turkey & Israel provided significant support politically and in military’s equipment and training to Azerbaijan leading to a complete Azerbaijanian victory over Armenia and restoring Azerbaijan’s sovereignty in the region. There was little political cost for this support for Pakistan, given that internationally, the region was recognized as Azerbaijan’s territory and Pakistan does not have significant economic links with Armenia. This upsurge in relations could possibly help close the deal. Currently, Azeri air force is equipped with obsolete 5 Mig-21s, 10 Mig-29s and 12 Su-25s. Jf-17 Block IIIs would provide significance upgrade in combat capability of Azeri air force.

Credits: Aqil Huseynov​

Iraq: There have been reports of significant talks between Pakistani and Iraqi defense officials to conclude a deal to purchase 12 JF-17s Block IIIs. Officials on both sides remained tight-lipped publicly as is often the case with defense related purchases. Iraqi airforce has been one of the largest in the Arab world if not the most modern when compared with the rich Gulf states. Post-war, IQAF’s most significant purchase has been of around 36 F-16IQ Block 52s. The lack of Lockheed-Martin contractors support due to budgetary and security issues has led to significance downgrade operational readiness of the F-16s. Less than half of the F-16 fleet has some semblance of combat readiness operationally currently. JF-17 Block IIIs compared to Block 52s are not only cheaper to procure (~$50m vs ~$85m) and operate, but also provide significant avionics advantage. Block IIIs are equipped with AESA radar compared to F-16’s pulse dopplers, providing a generational gap in radar technology. JF-17 Block IIIs will also come equipped potent arsenal. F-16s delivered to Iraq are without AIM-120s, lacking capability to engage in beyond-visual range combat, while JF-17s could come armed with PL-15 Long range air-to-air missiles. In modern air combat, that’s as good as being un-armed, as if entering a combat with a sword while your opponents are carrying rifles. JF-17s would come with no political strings attached.
So overall, there are talks ongoing, but as is the case with defense procurements, there are often strong elements of geo-politics overshadowing the capabilities of the platform. Until a deal is inked and planes have landed at customer locations, things remain fluid, nothing is done until everything is done.

Exports sales prospects of JF-17 | JF-17 Thunder

The export prospects of JF-17 Thunder continue to grow. Successful sales of 16 aircrafts to Myanmar and 3 to Nigeria (with option for more) have been concluded. Currently, publicly we know that the talks are going on with Argentina, Azerbaijan and Iraq. JF-17 was also the leading contender for...

jf-17.com

Untrue, JF-17 not tender for RMAF not due to SCS dispute. China submit L-15 LIFT for RMAF tender. Malaysian navy also bought Chinese patrol ships.

Obviously , PAF decide to concentrate on Iraq, Azerbaijan and Argentina effort

 

[Ghessan]

The statement does not carry weight as the big ones in PAF have already decided to market it as cheap.

They should have marketed it as cost effective but no. Cheap was the magic word.

They need a marketing team particularly when they exhibit at air shows. What a professional marketing team can do, they cant. This mantra of cheap won't work since people come to the booth to inquire are not general public.
I don't think we have such people available, they have to seek abroad those professionals who also carry expertise in defence sector.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

When you are start selling your product just by calling it cheap rather than effective you loose almost half of the value and in some cases respect as well. This is why product placement is so important.

I don't think the uncles earlier on realized. That the word "cheap" does not have the same implications abroad as compared to in Pakistani culture or in Pakistani English.

Now the keyword has changed to cost effective. Which is a huge improvement.

It took them decades to evolve from saying JF17 is "proud" of Pakistan to "pride" of Pakistan in parades and displays. Maybe in a few years they'll finally be able to say equipment instead of eeeekipment. Fingers crossed .

 

[capricorn5192]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1461557433671864320

 

[Chak Bamu]

I wonder if AAF's KC-130H refueler is operational or if it can refuel JF-17 in mid-flight? Falklands/Malvinas Isles are > 1500 KM from Argentine coast. What threat can JF-17 pose to Royal Navy, if much at all?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Probably a lot more serious threat than what their Mirages and Daggers posed with just 6 Exocet missiles at their disposal. thunders offer a BVR air to air capability as well as long-range anti-shipping capability with C802 and probably CM400

I wonder if AAF's KC-130H refueler is operational or if it can refuel JF-17 in mid-flight? Falklands/Malvinas Isles are > 1500 KM from Argentine coast. What threat can JF-17 pose to Royal Navy, if much at all?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Probably a lot more serious threat than what their Mirages and Daggers posed with just 6 Exocet missiles at their disposal. thunders offer a BVR air to air capability as well as long-range anti-shipping capability with C802 and probably CM400

Sure. But do note that Argentinian Air Force is desperate to induct something that keeps them from losing their long-standing HR capabilities. Without any functional fighter aircraft, they would lose the knowledge-base. JF-17 would give them a credible maritime defensive capability, but not much in an offensive capacity. Do the numbers (given in my post) & see for yourself.

Edit: I've been corrected by @adelphi. The distance from Sourthern coast is around 500 km.

 

[Avicenna]

What's interesting is DCS/RAZBAM is planning to field a South Atlantic theater.

Which you could potentially plan/fly/fight with JF-17 to Malvinas.

If things are accurately modeled, perhaps it may show to some degree how useful or what limitations JF-17 has in regards to Malvinas.

New DCS: South Atlantic map image shows scale, scope

A new image has been released by the RAZBAM team showing off the latest scale and scope of the planned DCS: South Atlantic map. Going far beyond just the Falkland Islands, the size of the map has i…

stormbirds.blog

Also, if that wasn't enough, I forget about this:

Hopefully, Argentina really does buy JF-17 so we can set up different realistic scenarios with the above.

 

[adelphi]

I wonder if AAF's KC-130H refueler is operational or if it can refuel JF-17 in mid-flight? Falklands/Malvinas Isles are > 1500 KM from Argentine coast. What threat can JF-17 pose to Royal Navy, if much at all?

Just a minor correction, the distance from southern coast is not more than 500 Kms.