Exploring Saudi Arabia's marine wonderland

[bangstick]

As a diver, I'd love to dive the area if it weren't for all those Saudis, Egyptians and Sudanese around. Clear them out and I'd be right over.

 

[al-Hasani]

As a diver, I'd love to dive the area if it weren't for all those Saudis, Egyptians and Sudanese around. Clear them out and I'd be right over.

What a useless comment. You are neither welcome with that attidude. Besides I struggle to see what Egyptians and Sudanese people have to do with KSA or the SAUDI ARABIAN Red Sea coastline and all the hundreds of islands.

Something tells me that you are a false flagger anyway.

@al-Hasani Nice pictures and video's. I had no idea there is high mountains with snow fall in KSA:
Saudi Aramco World : In the Alps of Arabia

You are very welcome 7abibi. KSA is a very beautiful country indeed with all types of landscapes and amazing unspoiled nature.

 

[al-Hasani]

@BLACKEAGLE

اخي انا سعيد جدا ان اراك مرة اخري

نا أمل بصدق ان يكون كل شئ علي ما يرام معك ومع عائلتك

The "Blackeagle thread" was closed so could not write it there

 

[-SINAN-]

@ al-Hasani

Wonderful pics bro. Are there any Turkish buildings left in Saudi Arabia from the Ottoman Era ?

 

[al-Hasani]

@ al-Hasani

Wonderful pics bro. Are there any Turkish buildings left in Saudi Arabia from the Ottoman Era ?

Yes, quite a few fortifications and a few castles. Some architecture here and there as well. Mostly mixed with local traditions since it already pre-dated the Ottomans by many hundreds of years. You also need to remember that most parts of KSA were not part of the Ottoman Empire but self-ruled (kingdoms, emirates etc.) and those that were (parts of Hijaz and parts of the Eastern Province) were ruled by local rulers such as the Sharifs of Makkah. There were also some Emirates in what is now Northern Najd in the Al-Rashid's that ruled the Emirate of Jabal Shammar who were not formally part of the Ottoman Empire but allies. In general those were pro-Ottoman rulers that gave their allegiance to the Sultan/Caliph. In the case of parts of modern day KSA that were officially a part of the Ottoman Empire.

There are also Turks or descendants of Turks living in KSA (mostly mixed now) just like there are Arab communities in Turkey. People by far have mostly a positive view of Turkey and Turks especially in these days were Arab-Turkish relations have improved.

Anyway you are welcome, bro.

You can explore more here below. Some of your countrymen already visited.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/222471-saudi-arabia-pictures-44.html

 

[-SINAN-]

Yes, quite a few fortifications and a few castles. Some architecture here and there as well. Mostly mixed with local traditions since it already pre-dated the Ottomans by many hundreds of years. You also need to remember that most parts of KSA were not part of the Ottoman Empire but self-ruled (kingdoms, emirates etc.) and those that were (parts of Hijaz and parts of the Eastern Province) were ruled by local rulers such as the Sharifs of Makkah. There were also some Emirates in what is now Northern Najd in the Al-Rashid's that ruled the Emirate of Jabal Shammar who were not formally part of the Ottoman Empire but allies. In general those were pro-Ottoman rulers that gave their allegiance to the Sultan/Caliph. In the case of parts of modern day KSA that were officially a part of the Ottoman Empire.

Thanks for the info, appreciated very much.

There are also Turks or descendants of Turks living in KSA (mostly mixed now) just like there are Arab communities in Turkey. People by far have mostly a positive view of Turkey and Turks especially in these days were Arab-Turkish relations have improved.

I really learned much in PDF about Turkish-Arab relations both for Turkey Era and Ottoman Era.

I used to think that "Arabs stabbed us in the back while we were in need of a help." But later on i discovered different perspectives of the situation. ( Thanks goes to @BLACKEAGLE for his explanatory posts ).

I hope Arab-Turkish relations continues to flourish.

I'm going to place a good luck talisman here.

^^ This one is for the Arab and/or Turkish haters.

 

[al-Hasani]

Thanks for the info, appreciated very much.



I really learned much in PDF about Turkish-Arab relations both for Turkey Era and Ottoman Era.

I used to think that "Arabs stabbed us in the back while we were in need of a help." But later on i discovered different perspectives of the situation. ( Thanks goes to @BLACKEAGLE for his explanatory posts ).

I hope Arab-Turkish relations continues to flourish.

I'm going to place a good luck talisman here.

^^ This one is for the Arab and/or Turkish haters.

You are very welcome, bro.

Regarding the Caliphate talk then you need to remember that we Arabs ruled the Caliphate for nearly 1000 years. From the very beginning and throughout the most vital and important parts of Islamic history - Rashidun (4 rightly guided Caliphs), Umayyads, Al-Andalus, Abbasids, Golden Age of Islam, nearly all the Islamic conquests etc.

The Ottomans or rather the House of Osman (originally Turks from modern-day Turkmenistan) proclaimed themselves as Caliphs and replaced the Abbasids who ruled as nominal "Caliphs" from Cairo after the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258. It was Selim I the grandson of Mehmed the Conqueror (who conquered modern-day Istanbul) that crowned himself as Caliph in 1512 after he gained control of Hijaz. This is all history and no Arabs are angry about that today or is blaming the Ottomans/Turks for "stealing" their Caliphate. I believe that the Turks should do the same the other way around. Because we all know that many of the Caliphs were more rulers/sultans than Caliphs. This is why we Sunni Muslims at least distinguish between the 4 Rightly guided Caliphs (Rashidun) and all the others including all the Arab Caliphs that ruled for 800 years after and the Ottoman/Turkish ones.

Besides many Arabs were also pro-Ottoman and even fought for the Ottoman Empire despite their opponents fighting for their own countries. Anyway all history today as I told.

Let us hope for a continued brotherly Arab-Turkish relations in the future at least.

 

[Serpentine]

Great pics.

 

[al-Hasani]

Lastly regarding Saudi Arabian families of Turkish descent then there is the rather famous Khashoogi family who were originally a Turkish family but now have mixed with Arabs - local Saudi Arabians (Hijazis) and Syrians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Khashoggi

Adnan Khashoggi is and was among the richest persons in the entire Middle East.

In general you can find families or people of mixed origins from every single Islamic country be they Arab or non-Arab in Hijaz. Makkah and Madinah has attracted Muslims for 1400 years from every corner of the world. Back in the old days were pilgrimages were made on foot, sea, by animal (horse, camel etc.) many people stayed and settled. Many others emigrated. In fact just like the entire Middle East we are mixed and have come under influence of various people. You can see that by just walking in Jeddah for example. Besides I have not even included the recent migration to KSA from all kind of countries Arab, non-Arab, Muslim and non-Muslim. This forum alone is a good example of it.

Likewise there are other Saudi Arabian/Turkish families just lesser known than the Khashoggis who are based in Hijaz.

I also learnt a few minutes ago when I was looking at this topic that Dodi Fayed (not his real name) the "lover" of Princess Diana mother was a Saudi Arabian Khashoggi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodi_Fayed

His father Muhammad al-Fayed was the owner of Harrods and the current owner of Fulham FC. He is a billionaire. Anyway his mother was this lady.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samira_Kashoggi

Both are now deceased though.

Totally off-topic I know but just wanted to tell this since you were around.

You can read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Saudi_Arabia

The Turks in that Wikipedia article are only new arrivals and do not include the Ottomans who settled before the 1970's. We know for a fact that thousands settled not only in parts of KSA that were formally under Ottoman rule (although ruled by local rulers that had pledged their allegiance to the Sultan/Caliph in Istanbul) but other former Ottoman territories in the Arab and non-Arab world. Be it Yemen, Iraq, Syria etc. So the number is probably bigger than 200.000. At least partially. But again the Ottomans themselves came from a mixed background. Some were Turks some were Caucasians, Albanians etc.

You probably know all this already.

 

[-SINAN-]

You are very welcome, bro.

Regarding the Caliphate talk then you need to remember that we Arabs ruled the Caliphate for nearly 1000 years. From the very beginning and throughout the most vital and important parts of Islamic history - Rashidun (4 rightly guided Caliphs), Umayyads, Al-Andalus, Abbasids, Golden Age of Islam, nearly all the Islamic conquests etc.

The Ottomans or rather the House of Osman (originally Turks from modern-day Turkmenistan) proclaimed themselves as Caliphs and replaced the Abbasids who ruled as nominal "Caliphs" from Cairo after the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258. It was Selim I the grandson of Mehmed the Conqueror (who conquered modern-day Istanbul) that crowned himself as Caliph in 1512 after he gained control of Hijaz. This is all history and no Arab are angry about that today or is blaming the Ottomans/Turks for "stealing" their Caliphate. I believe that the Turks should do the same the other way around. Because we all know that many of the Caliphs were more rulers/sultans than Caliphs. This is why we Sunni Muslims at least distinguish between the 4 Rightly guided Caliphs (Rashidun) and all the others including all the Arab Caliphs that ruled for 800 years after and the Ottoman/Turkish ones.

Besides many Arabs were also pro-Ottoman and even fought for the Ottoman Empire despite their opponents fighting for their own countries. Anyway all history today as I told.

Let us hope for a continued brotherly Arab-Turkish relations in the future at least.

We are thought Arab Caliphate Eras in school. I think this is the only historical teaching that doesn't belong to Turkic history.

I understand that there is no bad-blood for caliphate "exchange"

What about the abolish of caliphate ? I mean we ended caliphate, a very important figure in Islam which has been founded by Arabs...

 

[al-Hasani]

We are thought Arab Caliphate Eras in school. I think this is the only historical teaching that doesn't belong to Turkic history.

I understand that there is no bad-blood for caliphate "exchange"

What about the abolish of caliphate ? I mean we ended caliphate, a very important figure in Islam which has been founded by Arabs...

Well, that is great. It is part of fundamental Islamic history that every Muslim know or at least have heard about. Yes, among some. I look at it as history and a struggle of power that I had no role in.

Well, correct me if I am wrong bro, but did the Turks themselves not abolish the Caliphate? At least they ousted the last nominal Caliph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdülmecid_II

Or Abdul-Majid as he was also known as. He is buried in Madinah btw.

Later came Ataturk and the rest is history I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_National_Movement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk's_Reforms

Most Turks I know are happy about that transformation but at the same time are Muslims and proud of their Ottoman past. Times changes and history too. Maybe in 200 years the Turks will look at that period differently? Who knows? Rulers come and go but the people, land they inhabit, history, culture etc. often remain although they can change too. That's my philosophy.

 

[-SINAN-]

Well, that is great. It is part of fundamental Islamic history that every Muslim know or at least have heard about. Yes, among some. I look at it as history and a struggle of power that I had no role in.

Well, correct me if I am wrong bro, but did the Turks themselves not abolish the Caliphate? At least they ousted the last nominal Caliph.

Yes yes, I'm not saying otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdülmecid_II

Or Abdul-Majid as he was also known as. He is buried in Makkah btw.

Later came Ataturk and the rest is history I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_National_Movement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk's_Reforms

Most Turks I know are happy about that transformation but at the same time are Muslims and proud of their Ottoman past.

Most true bro. Me and most of the Turks believe that whatever Atatürk done at that time was necessary. Great Ottoman Empire reduced to nothing, Sultan sold his people and our land. Allied forces invaded our country. The whole nation was war weary ( There were 300.000 Ottoman army deserters living in mountains across Anatolia as bandits.... some of them had been recruited as a boy and fought in many fronts for 10-15 years.) All of our armies disbanded, most of the weapons captured by allies. Even on these terms he managed to unite the Turkish people. And gained a deceive victory against invaders. We are most glad for him...

Times changes and history too. Maybe in 200 years the Turks will look at that period differently? Who knows? Rulers come and come but the people, land they inhabit, history, culture etc. often remain although they can change to. That's my philosophy.

So true my brother, so true.....

 

[al-Hasani]

Yes yes, I'm not saying otherwise.



Most true bro. Me and most of the Turks believe that whatever Atatürk done at that time was necessary. Great Ottoman Empire reduced to nothing, Sultan sold his people and our land. Allied forces invaded our country. The whole nation was war weary ( There were 300.000 Ottoman army deserters living in mountains across Anatolia as bandits.... some of them had been recruited as a boy and fought in many fronts for 10-15 years.) All of our armies disbanded, most of the weapons captured by allies. Even on these terms he managed to unite the Turkish people. And gained a deceive victory against invaders. We are most glad for him...



So true my brother, so true.....

Yes, read about the situation of Turkey and the decline of the Ottoman Empire. What is intersting is that if you study history, the ancient Middle Eastern/Near Eastern history - largely Semitic be it Arab, Jewish, Akkadian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Phoenician, ancient Yemeni ones ( Saba', Ma'īn, Qatabān, Haḑramawt, Awsān, and Himyar), ancient Ethiopian ones, Egyptians etc. or non-Semitic in the region or just European you will see similar situations showing themselves again and again under different time periods, situations etc. Also Islamic and non-Islamic. The key word here is the struggle for power, greed etc. All we see every day across the whole world manifested in different ways. Same with the Turkic dynasties I imagine and every other.

It has been said that the wisest rulers are those who rule the longest but no matter how long they rule or how good they rule their time will also come. This is certain. At least history has taught us this time and time again. So with or without Atatürk the Ottoman Empire would have ended. Already from the second Selim I crowned himself as Caliph in 1512 the Ottomans had created enemies and later most areas although formally part of the Ottoman Empire were ruled by local rulers that had their own agendas often conflicting with the Sultan/Caliph in Istanbul. Same happened when the Rashidun, Umayyad (in Damascus or Al-Andalus (Spain/Portugal), Abbasid, Fatimid etc. ruled. Just different scenarios, territories etc.

When I say that the time of every ruling family will come then I am not referring to the constitutional monarchies in Europe who have no political rule or influence but are purely ceremonial figures. They as institutions have the support of most of their population (70-80% +) but even they can be removed from that ceremonial position in 100 years time if not sooner.

 

[-SINAN-]

Thanks man, great info.

We know for a fact that thousands settled not only in parts of KSA that were formally under Ottoman rule (although ruled by local rulers that had pledged their allegiance to the Sultan/Caliph in Istanbul) but other former Ottoman territories in the Arab and non-Arab world. Be it Yemen, Iraq, Syria etc. So the number is probably bigger than 200.000. At least partially. But again the Ottomans themselves came from a mixed background. Some were Turks some were Caucasians, Albanians etc.

You probably know all this already.

It's true we have mixed background. My father side is pure-turcomans. But mothers ancestors lived in Egypt as Ottoman officers, than later moved to Crete island. My grandfather has a slightly dark skin and sharp outlines (probably from Egytian heritage) and Dark Green eyes ( probably from Crete/Greek heritage).

 

[al-Hasani]

Thanks man, great info.



It's true we have mixed background. My father side is pure-turcomans. But mothers ancestors lived in Egypt as Ottoman officers, than later moved to Crete island. My grandfather has a slightly dark skin and sharp outlines (probably from Egytian heritage) and Dark Green eyes ( probably from Crete/Greek heritage).

Yeah. Can give you many examples from my own siblings or just family members LOL. Difference in eye color, hair color, natural skin color and when exposed to the sun etc. What we forget is that we are not only a reflection of our parents, grandparents but thousands of other ancestors. Mutations etc. I once read about a pure white couple that became parents of a black child and the child was theirs. The other way around too. Proven by genetics. Don't remember what caused it but something about genetics and all of us supposedly carrying black genetics. But I am not an anthropologist.

Anyway we are completely off-topic. This is also a certainty the longer any discussion on the internet or outside of it continues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPh09zA0nY



Why is the program called "Young Turks"? You know why, bro?

WTF are those two clowns talking about in that studio? The Boston bombers were Chechens for God's sake. Not Arab let alone Saudi Arabian. The stupidity.....