Expensive Pakistani Habbits , for a Economically Poor nation

[Crusher]

All I understand is that Pakistan has Classism issues and it's more severe from poor to richer side than the vice versa. You guys just simply think every rich guy is haramkhor and a traitor or got richer because of short cuts and as if they owe you something. News flash, they don't.
Bye

At least I didn't say it at all, I just said that paksitani rich classes feel entitled that they have a god-gifted right to luxurous imports in the form of luxury imported cars, furniture, clothes etc all of which have been depleting paksitan's dollar reserves since last 30 years and being financed by never ending international loans. Whereas poor and lower middle class paksitanis are taking the brunt of foreign reserve depletion in the form of rising inflation.

 

[Valar.]

At least I didn't say it at all, I just said that paksitani rich classes feel entitled that they have a god-gifted right to luxurous imports in the form of luxury imported cars, furniture, clothes etc. Whereas poor and lower middle class paksitanis are taking the brunt of foreign reserve depletion in the form of rising inflation.

It's their hard earned money and they can buy whatever the hell they want.

 

[Crusher]

It's their hard earned money and they can buy whatever the hell they want.

I extremely doubt it in the unfair neo-liberal economic system thriving in pakistan since last 20 years or so.

 

[Valar.]

I extremely doubt it in the unfair neo-liberal economic system thriving in pakistan since last 20 years or so.

You see, that's your problem.
Always blaming others for your own failures in life.
Last comment. Bye

 

[Humble Analyst]

Please see

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/tea-plantation-in-pakistan.562051/

Thanks hope it is viable and then why not

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

People are talking about growing plants on Moon and Mars , I am sure we can grow Tea in Pakistan if we used our PHD researches who are sitting at home with no Jobs

That is why you have smart people , PHDs and researchers to come up with out of box solutions

Any Plantation Environment can be created

If Pakistan's Government knows , Pakistanis drink 800 million dollar worth of tea
Might as well invest Government funds into a Strategic Tea Corporation , guaranteed 800 million dollar annually

Chinese humid environment demonstrator

 

[zn426]

you are asking the masses to live a life of austerity or live within their means
GOP tried that in USA. it did not work out

It didn't work because Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security/military are the vast majority of the budget and no one in Congress will touch cuts to those with a ten foot pole, even when those are where cuts need to be made.

I said in another thread there should be a social media campaign in Pakistan- check the ‘made in ...’ labels and ditch imported from Bangladesh, China & Europe stuff and prioritise your domestic manufacturers.

This is a very simple and easy thing to catch on and encourage your family members or neighbours to do so and slowly it will boost domestic manufacturers and make imported breakfast cereal, chocolate & baby milk powder a thing of the past.

Good idea. There's zero reason to buy anything not made in Pakistan unless absolutely necessary.

It's their hard earned money and they can buy whatever the hell they want.

I'm sure there are many who fall into this group. You also have the idiots sitting on land who haven't done squat in the 70 years since partition and hold up progress for the sake of their shortsightedness and lack of effort.

Austerity is going to hurt but it's necessary. Iran was forced to do it because of US/EU sanctions for years and they've come out of it one of the strongest economies in the region. The good news is that I'm sure China and the GCC will be willing to buy products so long as we are actually exporting them.

Azad, one point-I didn't see any adjustment for the fuel required for busses vs. personal motor vehicles. Unless they've made LNG engines for busses, I don't see where it's possible to import zero fuel.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-imports/
* Note these figures were from 2016 when dollar was around $80 for 1 rupee

TEA
Pakistanis Drink Too Much Tea—Imports Increased By 3.19 Percent. According to statistics Pakistan has imported Tea worth $491 million in the last 11 months form July, 2016 to May, 2017 to meet the current rising demand of Tea in the country

More rupees now are needed to import same amount


Mineral Fuel:
Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
Was expecting it to be just 5 billion , isn't 17 Billion a bit high ????
When we live next to Iran cheap oil source !!! Come on people come on!!!

Computers:
Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)

Electric Machinery:
Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)

Raw Items:
Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)

Organic Chemicals
Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)

Vehicles & Automobile
Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%) [Killing our state bank foreign reserves]

Plastics
Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%) [Ban Plastic Bottles and Bags !!!]

Animals / Vegetable Oil
Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%) what??????


Oil Seeds:
Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)

Cotton:
Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)
Come on man we are agricultural country we are importing cotton for 1.3 Billion wtf


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Immediate Avoidable Items

** Ban Cotton Import -----------------------------------: Save 1.3 Billion Dollars
** Ban Vegetable/Animal Fat , use local animal fat----: Save 2.1 Billion Dollars
** Ban Automobile Import------------------------------: Save 2.6 Billion Dollars
** Ban Plastic Imports ----------------------------------:Save 2.5 Billion Dollars
** Reduce Oil Imports by 50% -------------------------:Save 8.0 Billion Dollars


We can save almost 15 Billion dollar from our Books by just , banning stuff we don't need!!!

Qoam ko lal bati per lagaya hova hai choron ko pakro pehlay insaf karo hamaray bachon ko taleem do or health care phir ghas khanay ko bhi kahaingay to kha laingay..

 

[nahtanbob]

It didn't work because Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security/military are the vast majority of the budget and no one in Congress will touch cuts to those with a ten foot pole, even when those are where cuts need to be made.

the same dynamics will be in play in pakistan. why would pakistani establishment allow a situation where the masses are without food & energy ?

 

[Valar.]

I'm sure there are many who fall into this group.

Remember 2000 when Pakistan had only one Tv channel which used to broadcast from evening to midnight only? Remember how Pakistanis used to watch Indian dramas? Remember then all of a sudden different Pakistani channels started showing up? Now, do you see any Pakistani even knowing the name of a single Indian drama? I guess not. Though the similar thing didn't happen when it comes to movies and many Pakistanis are still watching them till a lot of good Pakistani movies start popping out. Same thing is with the Pakistani products. They are not enough and lack quality. So for now your be Pakistani buy Pakistani slogan don't really work.

You also have the idiots sitting on land who haven't done squat in the 70 years since partition and hold up progress for the sake of their shortsightedness and lack of effort.

It's ironically cute that this comment is coming from someone living abroad. Very cute.

Austerity is going to hurt but it's necessary.

I as a minimalist support austerity but I also know that you cannot force it on others.

Iran was forced to do it because of US/EU sanctions for years and they've come out of it one of the strongest economies in the region.

Whoa.... slow down there buddy..... are you actually trying to give example of our failed, isolated, terrorist neighbour as a role model??

You know what? Don't quote me again.

 

[nahtanbob]

I extremely doubt it in the unfair neo-liberal economic system thriving in pakistan since last 20 years or so.

in an ideal world who is the best person to decide how your earned money is spent ? you or some bureaucrat

 

[Enigma SIG]

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-imports/
* Note these figures were from 2016 when dollar was around $80 for 1 rupee

TEA
Pakistanis Drink Too Much Tea—Imports Increased By 3.19 Percent. According to statistics Pakistan has imported Tea worth $491 million in the last 11 months form July, 2016 to May, 2017 to meet the current rising demand of Tea in the country

More rupees now are needed to import same amount


Mineral Fuel:
Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
Was expecting it to be just 5 billion , isn't 17 Billion a bit high ????
When we live next to Iran cheap oil source !!! Come on people come on!!!

Computers:
Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)

Electric Machinery:
Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)

Raw Items:
Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)

Organic Chemicals
Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)

Vehicles & Automobile
Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%) [Killing our state bank foreign reserves]

Plastics
Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%) [Ban Plastic Bottles and Bags !!!]

Animals / Vegetable Oil
Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%) what??????


Oil Seeds:
Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)

Cotton:
Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)
Come on man we are agricultural country we are importing cotton for 1.3 Billion wtf


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Immediate Avoidable Items

** Ban Cotton Import -----------------------------------: Save 1.3 Billion Dollars
** Ban Vegetable/Animal Fat , use local animal fat----: Save 2.1 Billion Dollars
** Ban Automobile Import------------------------------: Save 2.6 Billion Dollars
** Ban Plastic Imports ----------------------------------:Save 2.5 Billion Dollars
** Reduce Oil Imports by 50% -------------------------:Save 8.0 Billion Dollars


We can save almost 15 Billion dollar from our Books by just , banning stuff we don't need!!!

Pakistan loses money because everybody wants to be a trader; not a manufacturer. Just a casual visit to any superstore and you'll see >50% of products are imported. Majorly from India (cereals etc). Hell even ads from major multinational brands are made in India and run in Pakistan.

 

[Crusher]

in an ideal world who is the best person to decide how your earned money is spent ? you or some bureaucrat

I totally reject American free for all crony capitalism, pakistan should never ever imitate that sh1tty system. Actually before the collapse of soviet union we had strong mix of capitalism and socialism in Bhutto's time which continued until Zia' regime. But then policy makers started aping American crony capitalism and the result is the modern economic crisis since more than 2 decades now. Money means nothing, it is just papers printed in a state printing press, the real things are tangible assets and money notes are ticket to grab those assets, we must not allow accumulation of most of the assets in the hands of the few.

 

[Comet]

Tea requires rain and sloped land. I doubt it can handle the cold weather in some of your northern areas.
it is hard work harvesting tea.

By northern areas, I meant areas around Hazara. Like Mansehra in KPK etc

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Immediate Avoidable Items

** Ban Cotton Import -----------------------------------: Save 1.3 Billion Dollars
** Ban Vegetable/Animal Fat , use local animal fat----: Save 2.1 Billion Dollars
** Ban Automobile Import------------------------------: Save 2.6 Billion Dollars
** Ban Plastic Imports ----------------------------------:Save 2.5 Billion Dollars
** Reduce Oil Imports by 50% -------------------------:Save 8.0 Billion Dollars

The first this I'd ban (or at-least put a restriction on) would be SmartPhones. Modern smart phones are in range of 6 figures.

 

[ps3linux]

I have read this thread with interest as it highlights some of the factors due to which we are having huge CAD (current account deficit) and I’ll try to put some of my thoughts here I am inclined to request the mods to merge it with:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-ugly-truth-about-pak-economy-a-brief-history.611844/

or maybe create another thread which outlines problems with the economy and suggestions to fix.


Now I’ll try and discuss my thoughts on the points raised by OP which I admire do reflect a concerned Pakistani:

Tea, experimental plantation was started back in Musharraf’s era in Shinkiari from what I know the experimental production/plantation results were beyond the expectations of the MNC which participated in the experiment exactly what is happening with KIWI Fruit plantation in the same area. Question is why the idea didn’t take off, (deep breath) because no one is interested in investment first identifying/acquiring/preparing the land for tea plantation, training the workforce how to pick tea leaves, setting up a processing facility. These are all huge undertaking and would require at least a decade of hard work and investment without returns, payback period will definitely go beyond 15 years. Who would join to start such a project, only governments have such resources and outlook but the way I find lack of competence, resolve and integrity in our bureaucracy I have doubt such an initiative will ever be taken (sorry for being negative)

The alternate well MNCs have their own tea production/processing facilities in Kenya/Sri Lanka they would over-invoice the import thus their parent unit (in Kenya/Sri-Lanka) makes more profit in dollar terms, once imported good lands in Pakistan it is repackaged (only) and sold at hefty prices, 100% of the profit by MNC is repatriated, Pakistan is screwed twice once through import, secondly through repatriation of profit. Trust me the control methods for repatriation of profit are the real “article 6 cases” against bureaucracy.

The other tea brands (local ones) they don’t care what happens to Pakistan they are here to make profit only.


If only the govt would levy additional tax on the income of these tea brands to create a fund which will be spend for development of local industry means “identifying/acquiring/preparing the land for tea plantation, training the workforce how to pick tea leaves, setting up a processing facility.”

Fuel:

From what I remember the fuel import bill was around 13.5 Billion dollars last year, we are in a catch 22 situation a major portion of imported oil is used for energy production I am not talking about furnace oil, it is diesel and petrol for generators used by business and production facilities because our electricity supply is unreliable. I visit Faisalabad very often the load shedding there is horrible, another case is software house for how long they could operate on UPS.

Maybe we should consider taxing all generators not used by production facilities to curtail their usage, additionally another large drain is the Afghans whom we have been harboring for decades they don’t pay any tax, and yet are major transport operators wasting our forex for their transport and recovering the money from Pakistanis.

We gifted oil rich Baluchistan areas to Iran way back in 60’s and due to lot of “brotherly countries sponsored terrorist” in the adjoining areas no company is willing to start drilling there. In India at least in Punjab they have planted trees along the railway tracks whose oil is used as bio-fuel for the railway engines we have never taken any such initiative.

Ethanol produced by sugar mills is mostly exported, and due to incumbent govt apathic and liberal policies in the area exporters are now allowed to keep dollars abroad for six months, my yesterday’s inquiries on the subject has revealed that the exporters anticipating further devaluation have purchased properties abroad, they might bring in some dollars 6 months down the road @Rs150 to a dollar. This is the case for all exports not just ethanol. Even if there is a show cause notice by SBP/FBR to bring the forex back there are always courts/judges available to provide looooooooooooooong term stay orders.

I will continue further on the subject as soon as I find some time.

By northern areas, I meant areas around Hazara. Like Mansehra in KPK etc



The first this I'd ban (or at-least put a restriction on) would be SmartPhones. Modern smart phones are in range of 6 figures.

A fund was created by the name of National ICT-R&D fund which is funded by a portion of Tellular companies income the objective would have been creating the necessary R&D for cellular things which would have included manufacturing smartphones in Pakistan, now there is huge array of bureaucracy in the same organization and doing nothing except putting the fund (they call it investing) in bank (which offers them favors) to generate income, my feedback on National ICT R&D fund is not based upon rumors, it is purely based upon one on one engagements with the management of the said company.