Exclusive: PAF Airchief Visits Rafale & M2k Units

[Basel]

Buying M2Ks don't make sense, because France is too close with India and huge $$$ are at stake for France, also even if France allow sale of 100 birds then with out M2K complete rebuild and manufacturing of critical parts factory it will become bigger burden then M-3/5s due to low availability of used airframes, also how much cost is incurred is also important.

If J-10C or above version is on par or better then upgraded M2Ks used by India, UAE and Qatar then its better to buy those.

 

[Marker]

Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 Orders and Delivery/Transfer Datasheet

Assuming that Qatar wants to replace its 6 Alpha Jets (about 20 years old) with 12 JF-17B Block IIIs, than 12 Mirage 2ks can be bartered at affordable price for Pakistan.

(12 x $32 million = 384 million for JF-17 sale; 12 x $10? = 120 million for Mirage 2k deal).

PS: These Mirages are -5.

However, procuring 12 Mirage 2k from Qatar to strengthen the PAF fleet is more viable only if additional surplus aircraft can be procured from UAE, France and Egypt in future. Otherwise, maintaining and logistically supporting only 12 aircraft will be very costly.

Nevertheless availability of these aircraft in PAF fleet will enhance maritime strike capabilities, help pilots flying other fighters to train against Mk2 and JF-17 electronics to evolve.

Also do not forget that India will always try to block such deals by offering lucrative counter bids to these countries. May be this is another way to drain their military spending.

 

[araz]

Very very small numbers. Not even a full squadron.

Bhai.
We are not taking any interest because setting up infrastructure for a plane that stopped production in 2002, and which your adversary has had for 30yrs is a folly that only arm chair generals will think of making. This boat set sails many a moons ago. Now please let it rest. Even if you want a new plane think along the lines of J10s.
Incidentally the last time PAF enquired for 59 armie de air M2K5s we were quoted 60 million a pop.so good luck getting a cheap deal out of the French.
A

 

[FuturePAF]

Would the PLAAF be willing to sell it’s early J-10A at a bargain price? When Pakistan has more money it can upgrade them later, but it’s the platform Pakistan wanted except for the Price. Also, the J-10A will be considered some of the oldest PLAAF fighters of those likely to actually to be used in combat. Any remaining J-7, J-8 will probably not be used in any meaningful direct a2a combat, perhaps only as a2g platforms.

Perhaps if it can be acquired at half of the original $60 million, they maybe worth it; considering the flight characteristics, range as well as the amount of weapons the J-10 can carry.

 

[Marker]

"In this programme, two specifications are particularly worth mentioning in view of their unusual nature-modular avionics and countermeasures. Apart from the Mirage 2000-9, only the Rafale, F-22 and F-35/JSF are to be equipped with this type of pioneering “core system” IT architecture. When it comes to countermeasures, they break new ground by adopting interferometry technology."

An extract from
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/w...iles/2012/08/Mirage_2000-9_special_issue1.pdf

PAF is gradually moving towards designing and producing indigenous 5th Generation fighter aircraft. Access to cutting edge technologies is utmost important. Buying Qatari Mirage 2000-5, maybe an expensive deal, will provide PAC and their Chinese friends an opportunity to peek into the modular avionics and countermeasure technologies.

 

[MastanKhan]

Would the PLAAF be willing to sell it’s early J-10A at a bargain price? When Pakistan has more money it can upgrade them later, but it’s the platform Pakistan wanted except for the Price. Also, the J-10A will be considered some of the oldest PLAAF fighters of those likely to actually to be used in combat. Any remaining J-7, J-8 will probably not be used in any meaningful direct a2a combat, perhaps only as a2g platforms.

Perhaps if it can be acquired at half of the original $60 million, they maybe worth it; considering the flight characteristics, range as well as the amount of weapons the J-10 can carry.

Hi,

I hope you did not miss Mr. Xi Jin Ping statement to Imran Khan after 27th---" what ever you need --- it is available "---.

There is no issue of funds with the chinese---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

I hope you did not miss Mr. Xi Jin Ping statement to Imran Khan after 27th---" what ever you need --- it is available "---.

There is no issue of funds with the chinese---.

I must have missed that. I was under the impression they offered “soft loans”, we have to pay them back, eventually, or somehow.

Either way, The PAF decided not to go for the J-10 (which I think they ought to have done, if only to signal internally and to the US, that we are not depend at on the F-16) ostensively due to the $60 Million sticker price and the relative immaturity of the subsystems.

While the J-10 has matured, our finances are still stuck in the mud going back in forth, so we have to plan accordingly.

Wouldn’t it be more prudent to approach the Chinese and ask to purchase their older model J-10s at a more affordable price. They on the cusp of mass producing 5th Generation fighters in large numbers, losing a squadron or two or more J-10s won’t really affect them much, but will help solve our Mirage problem, and break the psychological hold of the F-16, on us and our relations with the US.

Down the line, once/if the economy improves, then the J-10 can get all the bells and whistles. For now we should lay down the ground work for inducting a mature platform (rather than waiting a decade or more for project AZM). We owe it to our pilots in those 50 year old mirages. We also have an enemy building up across the border. We need to induct soon so that we can train on these planes over the next 3-5 years to be adequately proficient in using them optimally.

60-100 J-10 could easily be replaced by the PLAAF/PLANAF IN 2-3 years, and if we acquired them now, it would make a world of difference. The issue is would the Chinese be willing to part with them, that too for a song?

On the issue of the 12 Qatari Mirages. It can’t hurt to acquire them along with all the support equipment and peripherals (weapons, spares, etc.) from them as well, If the Qataris “sell” them for a good price. Worst case they can be used in DACT with the PLAAF at the next Shaheen Exercises to simulate Taiwanese Mirages, or the next Anatolian Eagle exercises to simulate Greek Mirages, and so would be worth the expense for our allies (who would pay us back somehow). They can also be used by our pilots to simulate Indian Mirages. I’m sure PAF pilots know these jets well, so it could just be a matter of a Hot Transfer after some back room deal with the Qataris and the French. Maybe after having bought some French “extended warranty”.

 

[MastanKhan]

I must have missed that. I was under the impression they offered “soft loans”, we have to pay them back, eventually, or somehow.

Either way, The PAF decided not to go for the J-10 (which I think they ought to have done, if only to signal internally and to the US, that we are not depend at on the F-16) ostensively due to the $60 Million sticker price and the relative immaturity of the subsystems.

While the J-10 has matured, our finances are still stuck in the mud going back in forth, so we have to plan accordingly.

Wouldn’t it be more prudent to approach the Chinese and ask to purchase their older model J-10s at a more affordable price. They on the cusp of mass producing 5th Generation fighters in large numbers, losing a squadron or two or more J-10s won’t really affect them much, but will help solve our Mirage problem, and break the psychological hold of the F-16, on us and our relations with the US.

Down the line, once/if the economy improves, then the J-10 can get all the bells and whistles. For now we should lay down the ground work for inducting a mature platform (rather than waiting a decade or more for project AZM). We owe it to our pilots in those 50 year old mirages. We also have an enemy building up across the border. We need to induct soon so that we can train on these planes over the next 3-5 years to be adequately proficient in using them optimally.

60-100 J-10 could easily be replaced by the PLAAF/PLANAF IN 2-3 years, and if we acquired them now, it would make a world of difference. The issue is would the Chinese be willing to part with them, that too for a song?

On the issue of the 12 Qatari Mirages. It can’t hurt to acquire them along with all the support equipment and peripherals (weapons, spares, etc.) from them as well, If the Qataris “sell” them for a good price. Worst case they can be used in DACT with the PLAAF at the next Shaheen Exercises to simulate Taiwanese Mirages, or the next Anatolian Eagle exercises to simulate Greek Mirages, and so would be worth the expense for our allies (who would pay us back somehow). They can also be used by our pilots to simulate Indian Mirages. I’m sure PAF pilots know these jets well, so it could just be a matter of a Hot Transfer after some back room deal with the Qataris and the French. Maybe after having bought some French “extended warranty”.

Hi,

No---we don't need their older model J10's---. We would need their latetst model J10 C's and and it may pi-ss off many pakistan china haters---we want them for free---or soft soft loans---or on a lease---.

Air superiority you want that latest that you can operate---. Strike aircraft is a different story---.

China would love for pakistan to get the J10 C's---. It is just the same as French wanted at first pakistan to get the Mirage 2K's and then tried real hard to get the Rafale---.

I would still want the Qatari M2K's and the M2K's from Emirates as well.

Time is running out for pakistan---.

Time is getting closer for Modi to be losing his patience with what he is going thru---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

No---we don't need their older model J10's---. We would need their latetst model J10 C's and and it may pi-ss off many pakistan china haters---we want them for free---or soft soft loans---or on a lease---.

Air superiority you want that latest that you can operate---. Strike aircraft is a different story---.

China would love for pakistan to get the J10 C's---. It is just the same as French wanted at first pakistan to get the Mirage 2K's and then tried real hard to get the Rafale---.

I would still want the Qatari M2K's and the M2K's from Emirates as well.

Time is running out for pakistan---.

Time is getting closer for Modi to be losing his patience with what he is going thru---.

Your Right, we do need them to be the best they can be and need them soon. Tops 4 years to the next election, but with Modi ratcheting up the oppression and his economy slowing down, he will probably act sooner rather than later.

Do you think the Chinese would give Soft soft loans, or even free, considering the threat.

Also a hot transfer of a squadron would be needed ASAP to lay the ground work for building up the logistics network and ground crew training at a PAF base.

What kind of time frame do you think it would take to train up pilots and ground crew to be adequately capable to proper use the J-10 in the A2A domain?

 

[MastanKhan]

Your Right, we do need them to be the best they can be and need them soon. Tops 4 years to the next election, but with Modi ratcheting up the oppression and his economy slowing down, he will probably act sooner rather than later.

Do you think the Chinese would give Soft soft loans, or even free, considering the threat.

Also a hot transfer of a squadron would be needed ASAP to lay the ground work for building up the logistics network and ground crew training at a PAF base.

What kind of time frame do you think it would take to train up pilots and ground crew to be adequately capable to proper use the J-10 in the A2A domain?

Hi,

They already said so---Imran Khan and Paf have fckd up so far---unless they are keeping things quiet---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

They already said so---Imran Khan and Paf have fckd up so far---unless they are keeping things quiet---.

How many J-10s do you think the PAF should try to Procure?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The realization hit the chinese real hard when their navy ships were visiting Gwadar and the indian submarine surfaced---at that time pakistan military realized that they had fckd up real bad and so did the chinese---.

Tactically and strategically---pakistani military has decimated pakistan's strength by failing to avail upon the opportunities in a timely manner---.

This stupid belief of using nuc weapons as a threat to stop the enemy from invading pakistan is absolutely the dumbest of the strategies in modern day conflict---.

Its time to stop the enemy from attacking us by threatening to nuc them is coming very close to an end---.

Only the dumb pakistani generals still believe that they can---otherwise as I stated longtime ago---the american sniffer dogs have sniffed out their location a long time ago---.

The large contingents of US troops in the US embassy in pakistan and then a special task force in AFG and the Gulf is ready to pounce on those locations---.

The thing is very simple---when you can destroy the major enemy assets by conventional means---why would you want to go nuclear---.

Conventional means is to get heavy strike aircraft---. Paf Generals should grow the ballz of israeli air force generals---or maybe Golda Meir's ballz---.

Pursuance of more F16's should be graded as treason in the pakistani constitution---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

The realization hit the chinese real hard when their navy ships were visiting Gwadar and the indian submarine surfaced---at that time pakistan military realized that they had fckd up real bad and so did the chinese---.

Tactically and strategically---pakistani military has decimated pakistan's strength by failing to avail upon the opportunities in a timely manner---.

This stupid belief of using nuc weapons as a threat to stop the enemy from invading pakistan is absolutely the dumbest of the strategies in modern day conflict---.

Its time to stop the enemy from attacking us by threatening to nuc them is coming very close to an end---.

Only the dumb pakistani generals still believe that they can---otherwise as I stated longtime ago---the american sniffer dogs have sniffed out their location a long time ago---.

The large contingents of US troops in the US embassy in pakistan and then a special task force in AFG and the Gulf is ready to pounce on those locations---.

The thing is very simple---when you can destroy the major enemy assets by conventional means---why would you want to go nuclear---.

Conventional means is to get heavy strike aircraft---. Paf Generals should grow the ballz of israeli air force generals---or maybe Golda Meir's ballz---.

Pursuance of more F16's should be graded as treason in the pakistani constitution---.

The F-16s are and will increasing become more of a liability for the PAF (for those very political/strategic reasons)

Do you think the PAF should maintain its 26 fighter squadron model of 17 planes each, and fill gap between full strength and our current number of F-16s/JF-17s (Approx. 250 4th gen fighters needed to reach full strength at 442 fighters) with a mix of J-10 and JF-17, or do you propose doing it a different way?

 

[nomi007]

May be Qatar will gifted its Mirages to PAF

 

[Haris Ali2140]

May be Qatar will gifted its Mirages to PAF

Maybe Qatar will trade some Thunders for Mirages.

Just a guess. Don't take it seriously.