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EXCLUSIVE: India’s 5th Gen AMCA Jet To Be Public-Private Program

Zarvan

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India’s fifth generation fighter program, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will be a corporate public-private program, a massive break from the traditional ‘goverment-only’ complexion of all military aviation projects thus far. Livefist can confirm that India’s HAL and the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) are in the process of laying the contours for a joint venture company to execute the AMCA program. The joint venture company will be a three-way partnership between HAL, DRDO (via ADA) and an Indian private sector firm.

Speaking to Livefist’s Shiv Aroor as part of an exclusive interview, HAL chairman and managing director R. Madhavan said, “HAL and ADA are together in the design of AMCA. We are also looking at productionisation already — we want to create a special vehicle, a joint venture company between HAL, DRDO and a private partner.”

It is not yet clear how the private partner in the AMCA project will be chosen, though it is clear that HAL and DRDO are keen to progress the proposed structure and create a special corporate vehicle as quickly as possible. The decision to include a private partner as an equal stakeholder in a joint venture is groundbreaking in Indian aerospace projects, with private firms so far confined to being tier-level suppliers of systems and subsystems.

Adding detail to timelines on the fifth generation fighter project, Madhavan said, “It’s on the drawing board. Preliminary design is completed. First prototype will be out (flying) by 2026-27. Secondly, as far as 4th Generation and 5th generation fighters, the latter loses out in terms of aerodynamics owing to stealth requirements, so not a good idea to put everything in one aircraft. With LCA Mk.2 and AMCA, we will be having both varieties — 4+ generation and 5th generation. One doesn’t replace the other. If you look at the US, they too are buying fourth generation jets in addition to the F-35.”

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In related remarks, in what is easily the most ambitious promise in Indian military aviation, Madhavan also said that the first prototypes of three separate new Indian fighter concepts, including the AMCA, will be rolled out in four years. He said that HAL and its partner, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) are working to unveil prototypes of the Light Combat Aircraft Mk.2, a new twin-engine LCA derived deck based fighter and the AMCA, in the next 3-4 years.

Answering a question on the twin-engine deck based fighter that HAL & DRDO have embarked on with government clearance earlier this month, Madhavan said, “So first the LCA Mk.2 will come out, and then the TEDBF and then AMCA. Prototypes of all three within 3-4 years. So 7-8 years is what we’re looking at for each of these aircraft getting airborne, which is a very short time in terms of aeronautical design.”

Part II of Livefist’s interview with the HAL chairman is now up on our YouTube channel:


Speaking specifically about the LCA-derived twin engine fighter concept, which Livefist has previously detailed here, Madhavan said, “The single engine LCA is not the aircraft for the navy, it cannot meet the requirements. The prototypes were actually technology demonstrators for carrier landings. What the navy needs is a twin-engine aircraft, because then only it can carry armaments, because the landing gear itself is quite heavy. So a Twin Engined Deck Based Fighter is what we’re looking at for the navy. ADA has started the project, and this month they have got the clearance, and they are expecting it to be in service 6-7 years from now. There won’t be time and cost overruns, because the first steps in aircraft design is always the longest period. That’s why the LCA took a long time, nearly 30 years. Second iteration, you’ve learnt all the nitty-gritties of the design process. For instance the first ALH also took a long time to put together, we were new to it. After that, all iterations like LCH, LUH have come out in very short periods of time.

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PHOTO / DEB RANA


On the LCA Mk.1 & Mk.1A, Madhavan sought to clarify on issues of production rate, telling Livefist, “Production rate was an issue two years back. FOC clearance came last year. We have delivered the first aircraft within 12 months. As far as numbers are concerned, we’ve completed deliveries of the IOC aircraft. We have to deliver the 16 FOC aircraft and awaiting clearance for the 8 trainers. For current order we are going at 8-10 aircraft per year. Our target rate is 16 per year, for which a second line has already been set up now. We can easily ramp up to 16-20 per year as and when we receive the 83 LCA order. We were expecting it around August when the Covid19 pandemic landed. Expecting a 2-3 month delay. Hopefully by December we should have the order.”

Watch the full interview with the HAL chief here.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...ndian-fighters-in-4-years-says-hal-chief.html
 
If GOI really intent, India can really have a progressive private defence sector (even exporting to other countries) in a decade or two.
 
Once Again Race is ON.

I was in college when I got my first Pentium computer and internet at that time LCA was the thing for Indians and FC-1 was just a myth. Now more than 130 units produced of FC-1 in the shape of JF17 and battle-proven. Where is LCA at this moment?

So once again it is Indian AMCA and Pakistani Project AZM starting almost at the same time. India already has a leg up in this race as AMCA is an improvement over LCA design but AZM is a brand new design (as reported). InshAllah Pakistan will prove once again that it is better than India in this as well.
 
If GOI really intent, India can really have a progressive private defence sector (even exporting to other countries) in a decade or two.

From what I have observed, the thorn is the state-owned military-industrial bureaucracy in India. They have become too powerful for their own good and for India. If they manage to have their way they'll probably get to undertake the entire project themselves. If the GoI insists on Public-Pvt-Partnership they'll try to get the chunk of the project. In the other instance, they'll create major hurdles.
 
If GOI really intent, India can really have a progressive private defence sector (even exporting to other countries) in a decade or two.
Very Optimistic. First it was Government and Now Private sector will waste decade and enjoy the Funds.

I believe that Indians have the ability to complete after 30 years, just like LCA
Make it 50. They couldn't make 4 generation in 30 years , this is a very complex concept give them some time. After all they are going to use component of different 5 Gen Fighter from all around the world and call it Made In India, Its not as simple it's very complicated process for Indians

Once Again Race is ON.

I was in college when I got my first Pentium computer and internet at that time LCA was the thing for Indians and FC-1 was just a myth. Now more than 130 units produced of FC-1 in the shape of JF17 and battle-proven. Where is LCA at this moment?

So once again it is Indian AMCA and Pakistani Project AZM starting almost at the same time. India already has a leg up in this race as AMCA is an improvement over LCA design but AZM is a brand new design (as reported). InshAllah Pakistan will prove once again that it is better than India in this as well.

Sir i dont know why i have the feeling that they are gonna claim LCA Tejas 2 as 5 gen. Lol Just to make themselves feel good.
 
So 7-8 years is what we’re looking at for each of these aircraft getting airborne, which is a very short time in terms of aeronautical design.”
In my life time Spanning more than half a century i have yet to see any DRDO or HAL project complete within few decades. I must say our neighbours are pretty over optimistic about their achievements. By the time this new SHOWSHA gets airworthy other nations will be exploring exoplanets!
 
*sigh* ... it's literally what we both thought 'JF-17 NG' (Tejas Mk2) and AZM (AMCA) ought to be...

In my life time Spanning more than half a century i have yet to see any DRDO or HAL project complete within few decades. I must say our neighbours are pretty over optimistic about their achievements. By the time this new SHOWSHA gets airworthy other nations will be exploring exoplanets!
To India's credit, 90% of their problem is organizational, not technical or policy. For Pakistan, the problem is organizational, policy, and technical...and we're too busy pointing at India's faults (which aren't as many as we think) instead of listening to our policy experts and engineers in how to solve our problems.

The greatest threat to Pakistan lies within every Pakistani. It's our lack of vision, seriousness, and willingness to actually show results (instead of talking about others). India's got us with their cricket team, economy, soft power influence, etc, etc. I desperately want to compete, but my own countrymen are clearly not ready or willing to start.
 
*sigh* ... it's literally what we both thought 'JF-17 NG' (Tejas Mk2) and AZM (AMCA) ought to be...


To India's credit, 90% of their problem is organizational, not technical or policy. For Pakistan, the problem is organizational, policy, and technical...and we're too busy pointing at India's faults (which aren't as many as we think) instead of listening to our policy experts and engineers in how to solve our problems.

The greatest threat to Pakistan lies within every Pakistani. It's our lack of vision, seriousness, and willingness to actually show results (instead of talking about others). India's got us with their cricket team, economy, soft power influence, etc, etc. I desperately want to compete, but my own countrymen are clearly not ready or willing to start.

We are trying to compete, without legs to stand on - while the other side is trying or learning to run hence the fact that they have not gone far ahead of us, already.

And once they will get far ahead of us, we'd play the game of blaming the 'yahood-o-nasara' helping them out, but not at our lack of effort, organization and sheer lack of will.

It's exactly how they got ahead of us in economy, science and tech knowledge.
 
We are trying to compete, without legs to stand on - while the other side is trying or learning to run hence the fact that they have not gone far ahead of us, already.

And once they will get far ahead of us, we'd play the game of blaming the 'yahood-o-nasara' helping them out, but not at our lack of effort, organization and sheer lack of will.

It's exactly how they got ahead of us in economy, science and tech knowledge.
Lol man even the cricket team. Like, the cricket team was supposed to be the distraction to all this stuff, and we can't even get that right. We just aren't taking this stuff seriously. We talk about dealing with India, and we do it at the highest level, but I don't see us walking the talk.
 
Lol man even the cricket team. Like, the cricket team was supposed to be the distraction to all this stuff, and we can't even get that right. We just aren't taking this stuff seriously. We talk about dealing with India, and we do it at the highest level, but I don't see us walking the talk.
We have never been good with strategic side of things, always stuck at the tactical level. What you just talked about in the ATAK program, is the same attitude you'd see in the Chinese too. They are all very open about their failings - do read Chinese newspapers for more on this. This allows all of these countries to course-correct at a strategic level. We are stuck at playing the local game and it will always be so. We don't have the the culture or attitude for the big game in this way.
 
*sigh* ... it's literally what we both thought 'JF-17 NG' (Tejas Mk2) and AZM (AMCA) ought to be...


To India's credit, 90% of their problem is organizational, not technical or policy. For Pakistan, the problem is organizational, policy, and technical...and we're too busy pointing at India's faults (which aren't as many as we think) instead of listening to our policy experts and engineers in how to solve our problems.

The greatest threat to Pakistan lies within every Pakistani. It's our lack of vision, seriousness, and willingness to actually show results (instead of talking about others). India's got us with their cricket team, economy, soft power influence, etc, etc. I desperately want to compete, but my own countrymen are clearly not ready or willing to start.
Thanks for sensible post.....

To India's credit, 90% of their problem is organizational

Modi is going to make HAL, DRDO & other sons-in-law of govt. accountable........Courtesy Nehru - the govt of India have soooo mannnnnnnyyyyy sons-in-law that it needs to pamper......

Despite being very inefficient, BSNL received a 70k crore bail out.....Air India needs a similar bail-out.....Jet Airways / kingfisher went bankrupt for a fraction of that debt....

India's got us with their cricket team, economy, soft power influence, etc, etc. I desperately want to compete, but my own countrymen are clearly not ready or willing to start.

The credit for much of superlative performance of pak cricket team (in the past) must go to Imran Khan......
 

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