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EXCLUSIVE: India’s 5th Gen AMCA Jet To Be Public-Private Program

HAL & DRDO are the best friends of Pakistan and China.

:pakistan::china:

Once Again Race is ON.

I was in college when I got my first Pentium computer and internet at that time LCA was the thing for Indians and FC-1 was just a myth. Now more than 130 units produced of FC-1 in the shape of JF17 and battle-proven. Where is LCA at this moment?

So once again it is Indian AMCA and Pakistani Project AZM starting almost at the same time. India already has a leg up in this race as AMCA is an improvement over LCA design but AZM is a brand new design (as reported). InshAllah Pakistan will prove once again that it is better than India in this as well.


These pompous loud mouth Indians will fail again.

They are all hot air with zero action.

:pakistan::china:
 
If GOI really intent, India can really have a progressive private defence sector (even exporting to other countries) in a decade or two.

That small fighter jet with compound delta .
The knowledge and hardships that we earn from that child will be the way of our future .
Without a single support from foreign nation we developed this jet.
Created an atmosphere for aerospace .
This time we trusts HAL,ADA .
Their schedule is perfect .Mk2 just an upgraded version of MK1 .TEDBF , everything is in there except stealth .
Then AMCA .
AMCA will take 2032 at least.
But all others it will be complete within 2030
 
1-2-1-1.jpg


India’s fifth generation fighter program, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will be a corporate public-private program, a massive break from the traditional ‘goverment-only’ complexion of all military aviation projects thus far. Livefist can confirm that India’s HAL and the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) are in the process of laying the contours for a joint venture company to execute the AMCA program. The joint venture company will be a three-way partnership between HAL, DRDO (via ADA) and an Indian private sector firm.

Speaking to Livefist’s Shiv Aroor as part of an exclusive interview, HAL chairman and managing director R. Madhavan said, “HAL and ADA are together in the design of AMCA. We are also looking at productionisation already — we want to create a special vehicle, a joint venture company between HAL, DRDO and a private partner.”

It is not yet clear how the private partner in the AMCA project will be chosen, though it is clear that HAL and DRDO are keen to progress the proposed structure and create a special corporate vehicle as quickly as possible. The decision to include a private partner as an equal stakeholder in a joint venture is groundbreaking in Indian aerospace projects, with private firms so far confined to being tier-level suppliers of systems and subsystems.

Adding detail to timelines on the fifth generation fighter project, Madhavan said, “It’s on the drawing board. Preliminary design is completed. First prototype will be out (flying) by 2026-27. Secondly, as far as 4th Generation and 5th generation fighters, the latter loses out in terms of aerodynamics owing to stealth requirements, so not a good idea to put everything in one aircraft. With LCA Mk.2 and AMCA, we will be having both varieties — 4+ generation and 5th generation. One doesn’t replace the other. If you look at the US, they too are buying fourth generation jets in addition to the F-35.”

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In related remarks, in what is easily the most ambitious promise in Indian military aviation, Madhavan also said that the first prototypes of three separate new Indian fighter concepts, including the AMCA, will be rolled out in four years. He said that HAL and its partner, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) are working to unveil prototypes of the Light Combat Aircraft Mk.2, a new twin-engine LCA derived deck based fighter and the AMCA, in the next 3-4 years.

Answering a question on the twin-engine deck based fighter that HAL & DRDO have embarked on with government clearance earlier this month, Madhavan said, “So first the LCA Mk.2 will come out, and then the TEDBF and then AMCA. Prototypes of all three within 3-4 years. So 7-8 years is what we’re looking at for each of these aircraft getting airborne, which is a very short time in terms of aeronautical design.”

Part II of Livefist’s interview with the HAL chairman is now up on our YouTube channel:


Speaking specifically about the LCA-derived twin engine fighter concept, which Livefist has previously detailed here, Madhavan said, “The single engine LCA is not the aircraft for the navy, it cannot meet the requirements. The prototypes were actually technology demonstrators for carrier landings. What the navy needs is a twin-engine aircraft, because then only it can carry armaments, because the landing gear itself is quite heavy. So a Twin Engined Deck Based Fighter is what we’re looking at for the navy. ADA has started the project, and this month they have got the clearance, and they are expecting it to be in service 6-7 years from now. There won’t be time and cost overruns, because the first steps in aircraft design is always the longest period. That’s why the LCA took a long time, nearly 30 years. Second iteration, you’ve learnt all the nitty-gritties of the design process. For instance the first ALH also took a long time to put together, we were new to it. After that, all iterations like LCH, LUH have come out in very short periods of time.

ETUonAmUcAEP3GA.jpg

PHOTO / DEB RANA


On the LCA Mk.1 & Mk.1A, Madhavan sought to clarify on issues of production rate, telling Livefist, “Production rate was an issue two years back. FOC clearance came last year. We have delivered the first aircraft within 12 months. As far as numbers are concerned, we’ve completed deliveries of the IOC aircraft. We have to deliver the 16 FOC aircraft and awaiting clearance for the 8 trainers. For current order we are going at 8-10 aircraft per year. Our target rate is 16 per year, for which a second line has already been set up now. We can easily ramp up to 16-20 per year as and when we receive the 83 LCA order. We were expecting it around August when the Covid19 pandemic landed. Expecting a 2-3 month delay. Hopefully by December we should have the order.”

Watch the full interview with the HAL chief here.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...ndian-fighters-in-4-years-says-hal-chief.html
Hopefully this jet will be available by 2050 ... if not, 2060 should be good.

That small fighter jet with compound delta .
The knowledge and hardships that we earn from that child will be the way of our future .
Without a single support from foreign nation we developed this jet.
Created an atmosphere for aerospace .
This time we trusts HAL,ADA .
Their schedule is perfect .Mk2 just an upgraded version of MK1 .TEDBF , everything is in there except stealth .
Then AMCA .
AMCA will take 2032 at least.
But all others it will be complete within 2030
Looking at the developmental timeline of the LCA (a 3rd generation aircraft), I am not very optimistic as to how India can put out a 5th generation fighter in a shorter timeframe
 
Hopefully this jet will be available by 2050 ... if not, 2060 should be good.


Looking at the developmental timeline of the LCA (a 3rd generation aircraft), I am not very optimistic as to how India can put out a 5th generation fighter in a shorter timeframe
LCA was started in 80's when we have isolated ourselves in terms of tech and economy. This time it'll be different. We just have to wait and see for ourselves. Timelines could stretch after all this is India but they are not going to be as long as you perceive them to be.
 
LCA was started in 80's when we have isolated ourselves in terms of tech and economy. This time it'll be different. We just have to wait and see for ourselves. Timelines could stretch after all this is India but they are not going to be as long as you perceive them to be.
I don't see how it will be different ... Indian military hardware aside from foreign purchases has hardly improved since 1980. How do you think India can make a fifth generation fighter (even with foreign help) in a shorter time frame if it took them 40 years to make the LCA (which still is not successful)? I doubt Russia would lend much help either considering India really spurned it by leaving the FGFA program.
 
I don't see how it will be different ... Indian military hardware aside from foreign purchases has hardly improved since 1980. How do you think India can make a fifth generation fighter (even with foreign help) in a shorter time frame if it took them 40 years to make the LCA (which still is not successful)?
30 years of 40 years in LCA development was nothing but fiddling happened at HAL. It's only now they started taking seriously their role. Young who get appointed are different to 80's manpower who all retired. Just wait a decade to see for yourself.
 
Feel good article. Will we even have funds available after COVID and the current situation with China? Our economy may be stretching thin for a while. I just don't understand why we have to throw out dates every time. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. MK1-A order has now been further delayed by 6 months.
 
From what I have observed, the thorn is the state-owned military-industrial bureaucracy in India. They have become too powerful for their own good and for India. If they manage to have their way they'll probably get to undertake the entire project themselves. If the GoI insists on Public-Pvt-Partnership they'll try to get the chunk of the project. In the other instance, they'll create major hurdles.
I totally agree with you. No wonder the DPSU's are protesting against their privatization since they can't laze off and continue their chai-biscuit culture anymore

To India's credit, 90% of their problem is organizational, not technical or policy.
While this is true to a great extent, things have changed a lot lately. There is push for indigenous projects and reduce defence imports both on a military front and from the govt.

CDS has recently stated that we'd scrap the MMRCA 2.0 and placed an order for 83 LCA Mk-1A and all the outgoing Migs will be replaced by MWF.

The development cycle for MWF should be relatively short given it's design was frozen within 2 years of initiation and metal cutting was scheduled for later this year but might be delayed due to covid

The invaluable experience we gained through the LCA project despite it's timeline, all the research & test facilities setup during this phase along with the development of aeronautical infrastructure will help us fastrack any future projects we take up. We've already completely indegenized our naval fleet over the past two decades with the exception of submarines. Companies like Tata have been building fuselages and several other assemblies for Boeing, LM, Sikorsky etc. The hardest part in developing a 5th gen fighter is not the design but stealth coatings, advanced avionics and sensor fusion tech

Roping in firms like Tata, L&T, Adani Defence, Kalyani, Reliance would definitely help us fastrack this process provided MoD ensures there's less red-tape
 
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*sigh* ... it's literally what we both thought 'JF-17 NG' (Tejas Mk2) and AZM (AMCA) ought to be...


To India's credit, 90% of their problem is organizational, not technical or policy. For Pakistan, the problem is organizational, policy, and technical...and we're too busy pointing at India's faults (which aren't as many as we think) instead of listening to our policy experts and engineers in how to solve our problems.

The greatest threat to Pakistan lies within every Pakistani. It's our lack of vision, seriousness, and willingness to actually show results (instead of talking about others). India's got us with their cricket team, economy, soft power influence, etc, etc. I desperately want to compete, but my own countrymen are clearly not ready or willing to start.

Sir, your post deserve multiple +ive ratings. This is what I have been saying too. Our politicians have injected one nonsense thought in our brains that we are 7 times smaaaal and we cannot compete with a giant hawwa known as India. This thought is one of the reason that pulled us back.
 
Lockheed Martin over all Lead integrator
Boeing - Fuselage
Northrop Grumman - Avionics
GE - Propulsion
Raytheon - Weapons
 
When LCA program started, India and China were friendly and forgetting border issues on the way towards settling peacefully. Now LCA beginning to get into IAF service and situation is so. When AMCA begins to reach IAF service, perhaps there will be some chance that India and China will have returned to friendly postures and on the way towards settling peacefully. Such is the length of the cycle. But all journeys begin with a single step so we will maybe see the AMCA on the battlefield... perhaps even fighting on the PLAAF's side?
 
I totally agree with you. No wonder the DPSU's are protesting against their privatization since they can't laze off and continue their chai-biscuit culture anymore


While this is true to a great extent, things have changed a lot lately. There is push for indigenous projects and reduce defence imports both on a military front and from the govt.

CDS has recently stated that we'd scrap the MMRCA 2.0 and placed an order for 83 LCA Mk-1A and all the outgoing Migs will be replaced by MWF.

The development cycle for MWF should be relatively short given it's design was frozen within 2 years of initiation and metal cutting was scheduled for later this year but might be delayed due to covid

The invaluable experience we gained through the LCA project despite it's timeline, all the research & test facilities setup during this phase along with the development of aeronautical infrastructure will help us fastrack any future projects we take up. We've already completely indegenized our naval fleet over the past two decades with the exception of submarines. Companies like Tata have been building fuselages and several other assemblies for Boeing, LM, Sikorsky etc. The hardest part in developing a 5th gen fighter is not the design but stealth coatings, advanced avionics and sensor fusion tech

Roping in firms like Tata, L&T, Adani Defence, Kalyani, Reliance would definitely help us fastrack this process provided MoD ensures there's less red-tape
This was my point. The 'organizational' comes from legacy bureaucratic workings and old issues. I honestly think India will eliminate most of them in the next 10 years, and actually work on an efficient tune. It's much easier to reap gold when your main problem is organizational.
 
Hopefully this jet will be available by 2050 ... if not, 2060 should be good.


Looking at the developmental timeline of the LCA (a 3rd generation aircraft), I am not very optimistic as to how India can put out a 5th generation fighter in a shorter timeframe

Because everything was from the scratch .
Faced toughness and bitterness from IAF .
In 2007 there was an attempt to kill this program.
After 13 years this one and its versions cemented that it will be the mainstay of our AF in medium and low category .
 
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