What's new

EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy

wtf!?

Complaints to
RAFAEL - India
Tel+91-11-4150-4036/7/8/9
Fax+91-11-4150-4049
Emailrafaelindia@rafaelindia.net
well Sir, it is not a bad idea to have contact information for client nation. I would rather pay less money from a public phone than calling Israel (If I ever have something, which I highly doubt) :)
 
.
Alright little news for everyone!

Kolkata Class has 64 Barak 8 missiles! 32 in 4 X 8 cell VLS and it also has 32 rounds internally stored!

This is what Prasun K Sengupta had to say :

The P-15A DDG does have only 32 VLS cells for the Barak-2 LR-SAM—twin eight-cell mounts fore & another identical set aft. BUT, there are another 32 cannister-encased missiles as RELOADS kept internally. 64 Barak-2 LR-SAMs on-board. Cannister-encased vertically-launched missiles held internally in storage can easily be brought to ready-to-fire position once the empty cannisters are removed while at-sea. For this, the heavy fleet replenishment vessels (which also serve as refuelling tankers) have purpose-built on-board cranes to assist such reloadings. On board aircraft carriers like INS Vikramaditya & IAC-1, such cranes are available as well. Fleet replenishment vessels will always accompany any IN battle group.

TRISHUL: 44th Successful Firing Of BrahMos-1 Supersonic LACM
 
.
Apologies, I do tend to get impatient.

It would be a rather major capability boost.

The alleged murmurs about the SLEP modifications center around the Barak-8 VLU (32) and the MF-STAR along with a new VSR, that is a rather large task though, even if doable, no? Wouldn't it be about as costly as a new frigate?
watch this you will like it
 
. .
Alright little news for everyone!

Kolkata Class has 64 Barak 8 missiles! 32 in 4 X 8 cell VLS and it also has 32 rounds internally stored!

This is what Prasun K Sengupta had to say :

The P-15A DDG does have only 32 VLS cells for the Barak-2 LR-SAM—twin eight-cell mounts fore & another identical set aft. BUT, there are another 32 cannister-encased missiles as RELOADS kept internally. 64 Barak-2 LR-SAMs on-board. Cannister-encased vertically-launched missiles held internally in storage can easily be brought to ready-to-fire position once the empty cannisters are removed while at-sea. For this, the heavy fleet replenishment vessels (which also serve as refuelling tankers) have purpose-built on-board cranes to assist such reloadings. On board aircraft carriers like INS Vikramaditya & IAC-1, such cranes are available as well. Fleet replenishment vessels will always accompany any IN battle group.

TRISHUL: 44th Successful Firing Of BrahMos-1 Supersonic LACM

Uhm, have you followed some of the earlier discussion here?

EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy | Page 5

EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy | Page 5

Barak-8 is 4,5m long and weighs 245kg. That is not something that is 'easily' moved around on board. Esp. since we don't see any on board crane (compare e.g. to the front of the bridge superstructure on a Perry frigate) and there is no 'strike down crane' such as available for Mk41 VLU (nb. abandoned by USN). What is suggested the fleet replenisher do with its crane(s) while at sea is NOT feasible. Plus, it is inefficient to store spare missiles on board while relying on a crane from another ship: if such reliance had to be incurred, one would be better off storing the missiles on the replenisher.
 
.
IMG_7772.JPG

where is SAM installed!

BEST PIC



Will be followed by 4 P-15Bs, and the existing 3 Delhi-class DDGs will also be upgraded with many of the
same weapons & systems. In total 10 DDGs with AESA radars, BrahMos supersonic/hypersonic ASCMs and
Barak-8/8ER SAMs have been outlined so far.
 
.
Uhm, have you followed some of the earlier discussion here?

EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy | Page 5

EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy | Page 5

Barak-8 is 4,5m long and weighs 245kg. That is not something that is 'easily' moved around on board. Esp. since we don't see any on board crane (compare e.g. to the front of the bridge superstructure on a Perry frigate) and there is no 'strike down crane' such as available for Mk41 VLU (nb. abandoned by USN). What is suggested the fleet replenisher do with its crane(s) while at sea is NOT feasible. Plus, it is inefficient to store spare missiles on board while relying on a crane from another ship: if such reliance had to be incurred, one would be better off storing the missiles on the replenisher.

The Type 26 also has similar mechanism. It can carry 24 CAMM missile canisters along with the full length 24 CAMM VLS. The missiles are stored in the hold. Reason why the replenisher don't carry it is because replenishers also carry fuel, so carry such equipment in the hold in Sea State 5 or more can result in :flame:.

Also such equipment can be used more easily if the missiles are stored with the ship. Other wise, go to port under escort, load ships and go back.

See Just 24 CAMM VLS ( smaller vls) but there 24 more CAMMs stored internally.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7287/9741529434_c1b94e6873_z.jpg
 
.
Those 48 long range missiles, why is that underarmed? Consider the original P15 had 2 single rail launchers, each with 24 missiles ... (Barak 1 was added only much later). Consider that the russian Kashins had 2x 22 SAM. Consider that the Chinese 052C has 8x6=48 and the 051D has 6x8=48. 052D has 64 cells, but likely will use at least 8 for AShM and probably another 8 for LAM, leaving ... 48! So unless they start duo- or quadpacking, that's identical to P15A (I'm ignoring the FL3000N "RAM" launcher plus 1 30mm gatling, for which Kolkata gets 4 AK630 as CIWS)

You also forgot to mention they have to carry ASROC that can kill submarines at sea.

CY-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That takes 16 more cells leaving 32 for SAM. HHQ 9/ HHQ 16 missiles will be placed in those and give area defence protection between 40 - 125 km depending on the missile. However both are absolutely useless against sea skimming supersonic cruise missile which is why China uses FN 3000N that is more like Barak 1.

Indian navy uses RBU 6000 that is short ranged but the UVLM for Brahmos can also accomodate Klub family.

L&T manufacture under license.

http://www.larsentoubro.com/lntcorp....aspx?res=P_HED_COFF_SBU_PROD&pid=1857&sbu=75

 
.
watch this you will like it
This is not relevant
The Type 26 also has similar mechanism. It can carry 24 CAMM missile canisters along with the full length 24 CAMM VLS. The missiles are stored in the hold. Reason why the replenisher don't carry it is because replenishers also carry fuel, so carry such equipment in the hold in Sea State 5 or more can result in :flame:.

Also such equipment can be used more easily if the missiles are stored with the ship. Other wise, go to port under escort, load ships and go back.

See Just 24 CAMM VLS ( smaller vls) but there 24 more CAMMs stored internally.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7287/9741529434_c1b94e6873_z.jpg

CAMM is 99 kilograms (218 lb) in weight, 3.2 metres (10 ft) in length,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_(missile_family)

The CAMM mini-silos on Type 26 are as follows:
  • four separate rows each with six cells, for a total of 24 missiles forward of the bridge
  • 24 more cells are located, in two rows of twelve each, in the main funnel mast.
Four CAMM fit in the space occupied by a single VL Seawolf

Q&A with BAE Systems on Type 26 Frigate Design Update at Euronaval 2012
Type 26 Frigate Global Combat Ship GCS Royal Navy Future Surface Combatant FSC BAE Systems datasheet pictures photos video specifications
UK Armed Forces Commentary: Type 26 changes again
Top+view.png

type_26_frigate_global_combat_ship_royal_navy_06.jpg


I would think a destroyer also carries fuel, for their GTu's and diesels, as well as for any aviation assets. Replenishment ships not only carry fuel but also food, water and ... ordnance.

NAVY_Fleet_Resupply_CONOPS_lg.gif

AOEs (Auxiliary Oiler Replenisher) are also referred to as “station ships.” They offer a form of one-stop shopping by carrying dry stores (food, consumables, spare parts), ammunition (bombs, missiles) and fuel (oil, jet fuel), and are able to transfer them all simultaneously. Often, shuttle ships simply resupply the AOE station ship.

T-AKE multi-product fleet replenishment ships or 'dry cargo ships' provide logistics lift to station ships and other ships operating with naval forces from supply sources such as friendly ports, and at sea from merchant vessels. In other words, their primary mission is to provide a steady stream of ammunition, spare parts and provisions (dry, refrigerated and frozen) to naval forces at sea in their role as a shuttle ship.

US Navy on the T-AKE As It Beefs Up Supply Ship Capacity

T-AFS are combat stores ships. T-AE are dedicated ammunition ships. T-AO are dedicated replenishment oilers. In USN service, the T-AKE in replaces these three types.

The two ship Deepak class are T-AO (fleet tanker) The Deepak-class tanker can carry 17,900 tonnes of cargo, including 15,500 tonnes of liquid cargo (water, ship and aircraft fuel) and 500 tonnes of solid cargo (victuals and ammunition). The modern cargo handling facility on board the ship enables transfer of heavy solid cargo via a 30 tonne capacity deck crane, and simultaneous fueling of multiple ships at sea at the rate of 1,500 tonnes per hour. Workshop facilities on the ship can support other ships of the fleet and it is capable of supporting heavy helicopters

IN Jyoti is a T-AO. The ship can carry 28,000 tons at full load, consisting of fuel diesel, aviation fuels, oils, and water of different grades. The fresh water carried for use in steam turbines is of much higher grade than drinking water. It has two replenishment positions on each side, with the option of stern refueling and can replenish three ships simultaneously. It can refuel at the rate of 300 tonnes per hour.

INS Aditya is a replenishment and repair ship best label AOR or AOE. It has a multipurpose workshop and with four RAS (Replenishment At Sea) stations alongside. The ship has a cargo capacity of 2250 m³ water, 2170 m³ ammunition and stores and 14,200 m³ diesel and aviation kerosene. The ship can carry 12,000 tons of liquid cargo, comprising LSHSD, FFO, aviation kerosene, distilled & fresh water and 5000 tons of solid cargo. The ship features a Hallapa deck and Canadian Hepburn RAS (Replenishment At Sea) equipment, a 2 ton heavy jackstay and a 20 ton crane. It can replenish four warships simultaneously and was designed to be able to serve as command and control platform. It can refuel at the rate of 300 tonnes per hour


And this is how you transfer missiles at sea (note that no cranes are involved)

8127831091_1d43a88f34_z.jpg

Sea Dart RAS, D95 HMS Manchester, Royal Navy, Mediterranean, 21 April 1988
Weight550 kg
Length4.4 m

get_img

United States Naval Ship Rainier transfers a test weight to HMAS Newcastle using a Heavy Jackstay in the Middle East Area of Operations (MEAO). 2013
get_img

Newcastle and Rainier dance again | Navy Daily

Or by helicopter / VERTREP
800px-thumbnail.jpg

839px-VERTREP_Composite_Pano.jpg
 
Last edited:
.
This is not relevant


CAMM is 99 kilograms (218 lb) in weight, 3.2 metres (10 ft) in length,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_(missile_family)

The CAMM mini-silos on Type 26 are as follows:
  • four separate rows each with six cells, for a total of 24 missiles forward of the bridge
  • 24 more cells are located, in two rows of twelve each, in the main funnel mast.
Four CAMM fit in the space occupied by a single VL Seawolf

Q&A with BAE Systems on Type 26 Frigate Design Update at Euronaval 2012
Type 26 Frigate Global Combat Ship GCS Royal Navy Future Surface Combatant FSC BAE Systems datasheet pictures photos video specifications
UK Armed Forces Commentary: Type 26 changes again

type_26_frigate_global_combat_ship_royal_navy_06.jpg


I would think a destroyer also carriers fuel, for their GTu's and diesels, as well as for any aviation assets. Replenishment not only carry fuel but also food, water and ... ordnance.

NAVY_Fleet_Resupply_CONOPS_lg.gif

Checked the part on 24 other VLS cells for type 26, correcto, position has been moved to back though in 2013 design!

Problem is two well known defence analysts Ajay Shukla and Prasun K Sengupta both mention 64 Barak 8 missiles. Infact Ajay Shukla is an authority on the P 15A project, owing to the fact his sources are usually excellent.
So locking down on the number of Barak 8 missiles is proving to be difficult.

A press release by IN on this next month may clear the confusion.
 
. .
.
Bro got an interesting piece of news. Remember the space between Brahmos and barak 8 VLS? Thats where the canisters for Barak 8 are stored! The logic behind this is in a CBG replenshing facilities are at strain so the little mechanism, comes in handy.

That's a pretty stupid thing to do on our part, if that space is already being utilized for storing rounds which are not in a ready to launch configuration then the said space could have been used better for 2*8 VLU modules for additional Barak 8s. Although, there is no actual info out and about to confirm what said "empty space" is being used for/might be used for/why has it been left "empty" to begin with.
 
Last edited:
.
That's a pretty stupid thing to do on our part, if that space is already being utilized for storing rounds which are not in a ready to launch configuration then the said space could have been used better for 2*8 VLU modules for additional Barak 8s. Although, there is no actual info out and about to confirm what said "empty space" is being used for/might be used for/why has it been left "empty" to begin with.

Is space the only constraint limiting the number of VLU on a ship?
 
.
That's a pretty stupid thing to do on our part, if that space is already being utilized for storing rounds which are not in a ready to launch configuration then the said space could have been used better for 2*8 VLU modules for additional Barak 8s. Although, there is no actual info out and about to confirm what said "empty space" is being used for/might be used for/why has it been left "empty" to begin with.

Depend on system. Space is also a concern. VLS space is in sufficient.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom