EU chides Jordan for hangings after pilot killed

[haviZsultan]

Indeed there is no single way, but then again, by the same extension, the TTP and ISIS can argue for the same leniency in declaring their ideals to be any less poignant than those of their opponents. See, the thing is that everyone thinks that what they believe in, is the best policy. What they were born into, what they were lead to believe, that is the ultimate truth and the only true right way.

What you have said here applies to ethnicity as well. We always believe we are right, where we were born into and what we believe. We believe that it is our right to remove the pathans from karachi and calling sindhis uneducated. I think we need classes in reasoning. Stop thinking from the point of view of us vs them.

I say this because I was born in a so called muhajir household with relatives that are real MQM chauvinists. I hope we can resolve our problems collectively and begin thinking critically and objectively of what we are taught to believe.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Thank You Baloch Sahab for the extremely detailed and very informative tutorial, I do believe this should be marked and added to the site's FAQs section!
Aur sir ji, jahan tak rahi baat cheet ki baat, hum th hazir hain janab, bas aisa hai kay Butt Sahab yaad kuch ziyada kasrat say kartay hain!

all the best.

by the way ..re these hangings and EU reaction reminds me of our own siuation here and the Corps commnder's news brief where they vowed to "dismantle terrorism without any discrimination".
that said we see hundreds of lawyers and former judge(s) lining up in support of a murderer Mumtaz Qadri and a handful of some terrorists that have been hanged covered in rose patels and their funerals attended by hundreds.

so I wonder how realistic this claim claim of our generals is when the society at large is extremist and hateful.

EU has nothing to fear.. our senses and or morality is sapped so much so that Peshawar massacre is a distant memory. we got about 3 thousand hardcore, mass murdering, notorious terrorists languishing in our jails for decade or so that decide the fate of our people which in jail. army managed to hang some of them who had committed their last atrocities specifically against the army,.. but their violence against general public and persecuted community remains unpunished. (oh no I am stating the obvious once again)

Question:
can a commander afford confusion, difference of opinion & hesitation at the time of war in a battlefield?
Why NOT?


what happens to those who hesitate, turn around or try to run away?
WHY?

Question:
is the country a battlefield and is the situation any less than one which is going to face a full scale frontal assault?

so..
should the commander.. seek full consensus and form committees to tinker what to do and how to respond to the enemy who is playing football with the skulls of our soldiers? shooting in the eyes of our children and cutting their body parts?
hmmm..
you know I conducted that interview of a commando? we have family relations with them and they live in Peshawar.. they told me things done to our children which killed me from inside. this is nothing short of Pakistnai version of karbala.. and if that doesnt cut it for our people then nothing will.


pray for me that Allah forgive me that I really wish to see some of our nay saying leaders see the same happen to their children and then I want to see the reaction on the faces of our political leadership
I just cant

 

[Armstrong]

Indeed there is no single way, but then again, by the same extension, the TTP and ISIS can argue for the same leniency in declaring their ideals to be any less poignant than those of their opponents. See, the thing is that everyone thinks that what they believe in, is the best policy. What they were born into, what they were lead to believe, that is the ultimate truth and the only true right way.

Agreed thats the reason why 'forcefully having others to confirm to your ideals' is usually taken as the red-line. If nothing is inherently right and wrong except what a consensus of opinion of those who have the right to decide that, makes it so. Then the EU ought to respect the wishes of the people of Pakistan to decide their own sense of what is acceptable and what isn't without resorting to this arm-twisting to drive home the message that 'well you're wrong' !

I too miss those simpler times, we shall have them again god-willing though I am not sure if we can expect to see them in our lifetimes. This nation is wrought with conflict and decay, it is deep rooted and it is constantly spreading, apprehending or killing those responsible will only accomplish so much, it is the people who have to personally take initiative and wholly reject this cancer to end this once and for all.
We can't expect to defeat terrorists when their bodies exit jails on roads that are being showered with petals on their way to funerals to be attended by thousands of mourners, we will defeat these animals when the authorities are forced to bury their remains inside prison grounds because no community will accept their remains in their graveyards, when people will stone ambulances carrying their bodies, when people will shun the Imam who even slightly hesitates when declining to lead funeral prayers for these bastards.
We are fighting a mindset, it can only be killed by an opposing, stronger mindset, not with guns and bombs.

What we need is Leadership who can guide the Nation through these tumultuous times and who in turn enjoys the unflinching confidence of the People; if only Quaid-e-Azam was still alive !

 

[Icarus]

all the best.

by the way ..re these hangings and EU reaction reminds me of our own siuation here and the Corps commnder's news brief where they vowed to "dismantle terrorism without any discrimination".
that said we see hundreds of lawyers and former judge(s) lining up in support of a murderer Mumtaz Qadri and a handful of some terrorists that have been hanged covered in rose patels and their funerals attended by hundreds.

so I wonder how realistic this claim claim of our generals is when the society at large is extremist and hateful.

EU has nothing to fear.. our senses and or morality is sapped so much so that Peshawar massacre is a distant memory. we got about 3 thousand hardcore, mass murdering, notorious terrorists languishing in our jails for decade or so that decide the fate of our people which in jail. army managed to hang some of them who had committed their last atrocities specifically against the army,.. but their violence against general public and persecuted community remains unpunished. (oh no I am stating the obvious once again)

Question:
can a commander afford confusion, difference of opinion & hesitation at the time of war in a battlefield?
Why NOT?


what happens to those who hesitate, turn around or try to run away?
WHY?

Question:
is the country a battlefield and is the situation any less than one which is going to face a full scale frontal assault?

so..
should the commander.. seek full consensus and form committees to tinker what to do and how to respond to the enemy who is playing football with the skulls of our soldiers? shooting in the eyes of our children and cutting their body parts?
hmmm..
you know I conducted that interview of a commando? we have family relations with them and they live in Peshawar.. they don't me things done to our children which killed me from inside. this is nothing short of Pakistnai version of karbala.. and if that doesnt cut it for our people then nothing will.


pray for me that Allah forgive me that I really wish to see some of our nay saying leaders see the same happen to their children and then I want to see the reaction on the faces of our political leadership
I just cant

Once again a very thought provoking post and you have hit the nail right on the head. Our nation has to find its own bearing, the Army can only do so much on its own. It must be made so unpopular to be even thought to be against the law and the interests of the state that even Fazlullah will have to conduct anymore videos in front of a Pakistani flag!

What we need is Leadership who can guide the Nation through these tumultuous times and who in turn enjoys the unflinching confidence of the People; if only Quaid-e-Azam was still alive !

I hear this all too often, it is about time we let the man rest, he's already done his part. We cannot live with our shortcomings and expect others to cover for them, even the Quaid. These are issues we must resolve on our own.

 

[Armstrong]

I hear this all too often, it is about time we let the man rest, he's already done his part. We cannot live with our shortcomings and expect others to cover for them, even the Quaid. These are issues we must resolve on our own.

The only reason I mention him is because he was the embodiment of all that was best in us !

 

[Al Bhatti]

Here in Denmark they are talking about creating a DNA register for everyone that is born in Denmark. Of course with the aim to combat crime. Apparently 75% of all people support this. Had this been 20-30 years ago it would be unthinkable. Hell just 10 years ago.

Being worked out in UAE as well in phases since some years now. In the end DNA of all nationals and expatriates living in the country will be saved in the database.

 

[al-Hasani]

Being worked out in UAE as well in phases since some years now. In the end DNA of all nationals and expatriates living in the country will be saved in the database.

I know. There have been talk about introducing it in all GCC states. To tell you honestly then I find the prospect quite scary. George Orwell's 1984 comes to mind. Where will it stop? For instance will every household in the future be monitored by drones and satellites 24/7? Will chips be inserted into the bodies of released criminals so they can be tracked at all times?

Of course you can argue that if you have nothing to hide there won't be a problem and I understand that point but on the other hand it's clearly a move that undermines your personal freedom and I don't know if I like that. I rather prefer that my DNA is not registered anywhere. Not because I have anything to hide but just out of principle.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I know. There have been talk about introducing it in all GCC states. To tell you honestly then I find the prospect quite scary. George Orwell's 1984 comes to mind. Where will it stop? For instance will every household in the future be monitored by drones and satellites 24/7? Will chips be inserted into the bodies of released criminals so they can be tracked at all times?

Of course you can argue that if you have nothing to hide there won't be a problem and I understand that point but on the other hand it's clearly a move that undermines your personal freedom and I don't know if I like that. I rather prefer that my DNA is not registered anywhere.

yes
we got nothing to hide what what assurance is there that it wont be abused by the people in power?
what about some sick and demented people making the lives of ordinary civilians a misery?

 

[al-Hasani]

yes
we got nothing to hide what what assurance is there that it wont be abused by the people in power?
what about some sick and demented people making the lives of ordinary civilians a misery?

Like with any legislation that somehow limits our privacy or personal freedom it can be difficult to control on the long run because where do you draw the line? Of course the aim is to protect the nation and people but sometimes preventive measures like that do more harm than good. It's an interesting topic. I have read about it before.

It's also relevant nowadays due to Wikileaks, Edward Snowdon etc.

Maybe the solution will be to secure a job at some intelligence service and then you can decide what to implement and what not to implement after writing reports and conducting "tests" that cannot be refused by the various governments etc., lol.