@Desert Fox @Psychic @Skies @Centaur @Nefer @vostok have a good read when you have some time if you want, i highlighted a few pertinent parts:
You ought to bother to think about the long term effect on your character/mental state as a person (again a solid reading on the subject material from psychologists on the subject ought to be mandatory before you go jump into the ocean with little thought)....past the whole risk of venereal diseases, exposure to more rapists/stalkers/creeps, risk of unwanted pregnancy (and proclivity to then kill the baby in the womb for personal convenience) and a bunch of other abhorrent things.
Very few women, esp in developing world go into sex trade with requisite knowledge (and thus responsibility) in these subjects. The defacto coercion question thus arises big time. Very few people are essentially adequately informed and versed in the subject before they make life-altering decisions on it. The dams and fences that exist in culture/society (things like family, religion, morality, virtue....over the natural state of human sin/degradation/entropy) did not come out of thin air for a reason.
Slavery was gradually accepted by people (with little to no previous exposure to such before in innumerable instances) over the currents of history too in all manner of timeframes. Just one example. What is being "accepted" and "rejected" by "more and more" people (esp those that are not particularly conversant in moral, virtue and logic) in some chosen period of time is not an argument. It is much more useful to talk about what is fundamentally good and useful for society and what isn't....not the society's current manifestation of emotional-populism trends (in whatever time frame be it a few years, decades, generation etc)....because that is a particularly terrible slippery slope if you read even one iota of history.
As far as the "penalties" go, they should be commensurate to the level of negative externality...enforcement should also scaled for this. I.e I do not propose the same punishment/enforcement for murder (direct imposing evil on others) like I do for prostitution, homosexuality (much larger buffer for personal free will acting) etc. Society ought to debate all of that proportionality further as it sees fit, but it is morally wrong to convert clear evil-doing as "grey" or even "good" legislatively....as has been done with say baby-killing in the womb.
You either get that...or you don't....esp when you reach adulthood and the mind has been crystallized on the way of thinking about this. I am just explaining my position on this to you, I don't seek or even hope to get you aligned on this subject matter tbh.....seeing the later points you talking with
@Centaur about.
That's a terrible argument. Vice/sin/evil has always been there in the human psyche....and thus we should allow it to expand unfettered based on complete extreme individualism + short term satisfaction that takes both wisdom and reason prisoner - and try to pose it as "natural" and "good"?
Again terrible argument. By same logic you can say....why ban murder? It happens at a certain rate in society anyway (even when you have it banned), just legalise it. Or if you want to extend to "personal - voluntary" consumption only, are you in favour of legalising the hardest drugs out there (cocaine, heroin etc) and let society make its "free guided/free market" choice on that too?
We can continue this argument in all manners and finally you will not like the reflection in the mirror shown at some point (unless you are a true to the complete bone anarchist) and you will say....yes society must "step in" to stop it.
Tell me if someone wants to live a life completely naked in public (his/her free choice after all right?)...what right does the public have to enforce the norms of clothing back on that person? So he/she should just be allowed to streak everywhere, displaying everything openly to everyone (who really should just look away if they don't like it given its their free choice to look right?)....and if there are children around....too bad!....just close their eyes if you dont like it.
Then the next step will be to allow not just nudity but public masturbation will be fine too. I mean why not, its again free individual choice and society has no right to impose back on the individual right...when society should just mind its own business, since they are just all individuals too....preferably indoctrinated into materialism, anarchy and short term self-indulgence to the maximum extent possible and then some (because heck you shouldn't really stop anywhere, just keep going, its all about continuing the speed...just look at the "feminist" and "civil rights" movements now).
I know how lefties play this game, you willing to concede an inch, they will ask a country mile next....and say you conceded an inch, whats the problem....just a matter of distance and distance is just perspective right?
Sorry but no thanks....we are holding onto the remaining forts now and not giving them up....we have faith in having the last laugh you see....because we believe in eternal life (only natural given life is all we have experienced ourselves)....not a concept of assuming death is the finality and thus materialism and indulgence is the only purpose of living....if those can even be called that. You all can have a hindsight look at it all in your latter part of life (if you even get there) and realise what we are on about it then (or don't its fine too...delusion is powerful indeed)....the psychological study of atheists and anarchists in their later lives is quite intriguing and says a lot....they largely die miserable past the conscious delusion they may still cling on to.
Which children study medicine and anthropology? Those are things of study for early to mid adulthood.
But as children, yes parents should have dominion over their studies largely and generally (and that system improved upon by society by producing better role model parenthood)....any other argument (children know better, big govt knows better) is slippery slope for deferred responsibilities....given children are not mature minds....humans generally are not till they reach early to mid 20s.
There is some balance to be had...shift towards one of the extremes must be discussed and analysed rather than just declared null and void as a topic by lefties....who thrive in an environment of cultural ignorance and dissonance.
Absolute equality can only be accomplished by massive amounts of (ultimately unsustainable) force, it would have taken more energy than this universe possesses to stop star formation (merit driven society) and keep matter ionized proton soup (complete individual). Like the gravity that exists in this universe, so does the desire to coalesce to form a grander purpose in life among the individual souls. Lefties (in the current parlance, they have existed since dawn of humanity) would do well to remember that....because they certainly need this lesson taught the hard way again and again to their own detriment (but I guess they don't really care, its all just A to B and nothing before A or after B to them).....they seem to represent the worst of what humanity is always....because at their very core is a seed of complete dissonance to the very way the universe has expressed itself. But what would existence be without this I suppose...the only thing I welcome about evil is that without it there is no good.
Wrong. The entropy perversions and reforms (be they defacto or dejure) within Hinduism in the Kaliyug predate all the british raj impostors. You know zilch on the subject I am afraid. Hinduism had a head start on its "organised religion" phase over most if not all others....it is only natural more entropy and largely feelz based counter-entropy has seeped in. The vast body of even the so called elite/priests in Hinduism even a millenia ago (forget about now) have not read much of the Upanishads...and when they have for optics, they do not understand.
Hey I would love to compare to say Zoroastrianism or Greek/Roman paganism today if they survived as mass population societies....but they don't...it is what it is.
Both but especially the latter being hugely injurious to society. Single parenthood in the black community is the largest reason for their socio-economic stasis....they were going places up to the time of MLK and MX, back when their families were stoic and strong...but as soon as the new plantation of big govt (ironically offered/imposed to them by the Klansman party) came which needed a reset of new gods, new cultural norms but above all victimhood complex - big govt collaboration.....the result on the ground has been devastating.
Other groups in US are reflections of this phenomenon, just differing levels of internal resistance trend to it, largely from 5HT and inherited IQ etc.
Thanks for summarizing the leftie take on it. Again we are as separate as can be on this, like fire and water.
Nope you harm far more than that. Depends on the circumstance (since you are talking in some absolute here). I dont think the children of the whores running around in brothels are learning great life lessons and are going to become upstanding moral citizens, non-dependent on further whoring and other vice themselves and/or big govt.
Nor is the patron damage limited to the there and now either...when simple money/abundant access can transact a need for short indulgence of a vice.
Again the focus should be to better inform people, have the preventive legislation + scaled enforcement/penalty as society sees fit....and let the free market of vice exist on the periphery at that equilibrium...cocooned and sheltered away from the grander broader civilisation....but now we want to ignore how its been and why its been...for all the reasons you illustrate and I completely disagree with....simply to create some new equilibrium on absolute individualism....again which has never sustained itself well in human history.
Again, please tell that to all the innocent people that were murdered by druggies and junkies while on them...and all those operating and profiting in the vice trade. Oh wait you cant....life ends and thats it....gee that sucks.
Your argument was there should be complete freedom for each individual (i.e society has no role)....so why add a cutoff when it comes to physical direct harm etc? Where did that notion come from? You didn't get it from society after all right? Definitely not some intuition you have within you correct? Fundamentally who are you to impose/judge on a murderer's right to kill...or the victim's right to life?
Like I said this is all stuff you should figure out in an anarchy when you go ahead and create one somewhere.....the whole concept of society/intuition imposing whats good and evil (when it comes to something as basic as life and death itself by even external imposed force)...should have an absolute consistent position from you right? When you draw a line somewhere and say "nope thats too far"....you have drawn a line period....your argument then sinks for saying a line at any other spot is inherently wrong.
Refer again to your own quote that sparked reply from me in first place:
Not to mention saying "Don't" is very much in the tone of the "evil patriarchal" 10 commandments too...i.e who are you to say do or don't to another? Just let existence exist and do its thing independent of you.... if you want to be truly consistent to zero-force + full individualism + full self guided morals only (Pure Anarchy)....right? Why are you indulging in what those that are control freaks etc are doing....yourself?
Already answered somewhere in this long *** reply I hope....along with the following para's you pose (incl sex outside marriage punishment/enforcement should be scaled to the level of the negative externality discussed/debated by the morally proven people in a society). Again this is probably my last reply on this topic.
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