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Elective Quran course approved for military schools

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Wow!! Heartening to see Turks here showing their secular thoughts.
Respect @what, Turar, Legionnaire, BronzePlaque

I am a fan of Kemal and felt his Turkey is all lost now, considering what we hear from AKP and the claims of some Pakistanis on PDF about Turkey(They practically count Turkey's armed forces on 'their side', probably in the next upcoming jihad). How could all these million muslim countries ignore this guy's influence and achievement, the single greatest country built in Asia based on secularism(better than India's flavor of secularism)? In spite of decades of craziness and failed experiments with political Islam, these countries still rally around the next guy who wears Islam on his sleeve.
 
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There is nothing that justifies teaching religion in military academies, nothing. WTF

Do you know 98% of this country is muslim? Do you know the US is a secular country and all soldiers read bible or Torah?

No need to compare: how does religion improve anything for these soldiers? Will they have suprerior tactics?

Now we can fight with the iman power i guess :D lol

What a tremendous achievement.

How do you think we beat "yedi duvel" in Canakkale with our military power or with our faithful soldiers and officers? The religion gave a lot of things to soldiers in our history. We beat them "yedi duvel" with out faithful soldiers. Look what our leader said:

"Size Bomba sırtı Vakasını anlatmadan geçemeyeceğim. Karşılıklı siperler arasındaki mesafe sekiz metre, yani ölüm muhakkak. Birinci siperdekiler, hiçbiri kurtulamamacasına kâmilen düşüyor, ikincidekiler onların yerine gidiyor. Fakat ne kadar şayan-ı gıpta bir itidal ve tevekkülle, biliyor musunuz? Öleni görüyor, üç dakikaya kadar öleceğini biliyor. Hiç ufak bir fütur bile göstermiyor. Sarsılmak yok. Okuma bilenler, ellerinde KUR'AN-I KERİM, cennete girmeye hazırlanıyorlar. Bilmeyenler kelime-i şahadet getirerek yürüyorlar. Bu, Türk askerlerindeki ruh kuvvetini gösteren şayan-ı hayran ve tebrik bir misaldir. Emin olmalısınız ki, Çanakkale Savaşı'nı kazandıran bu yüksek ruhtur." MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATÜRK

Do you know who "Seyit Onbasi" was? He was the faithful soldier who lifted 250 kg. shell without winch and sunk British Ocean Battleship. How do you think he lifted 250 kg. shell without winch three times and hit Ocean battleship?

4_14201599_seyit%20onba%C5%9F%C4%B1.jpg


Do you know who "Sutcu Imam" was? He was the first person who killed french soldiers because they touched our sister`s headscarf. He killed those french soldiers and did not allow them to rape our honor, faith. How do you think he did this?

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Do you know who "Nene Hatun" was? She left her children and fought against Russians in Erzurum. How did she fight against them.

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The faith is inseparable belief for our soldier. On the battleground, they say if I die, I will be martyr; If I get injured , I will be Ghazi.

Teaching religion is not the duty of a secular state. Especially if it is about teaching a particular religion while dismissing other religions.

I agree with you my friend. Teaching religion is not the duty of a secular state, but assure every citizen to learn and practice whatever they believe. It is not secular state`s duty to fire the people who practice their religion (pray five times a day, fast etc.) or their mothers or wives wear headscarf from the army. In this situation, if a student wants to learn Qur'an or our prophet life, so be it. Allow them whatever they want to believe. That is why they are elective not require core sources.

For some extremist in our country, secularism= no islam. That is why they are so angry to see such a thing. They are used to see that there is no life for religious people in our army (just reminder we call them mehmetcik which mean little Muhammeds (pbuh)). For those extreme secularist people, the religious people can be soldier and die for this country (which you can see the martyr`s families generally religious), but those cannot be an officer. This mentality makes me sick. Just leave people alone with their faith. Leave them alone to believe or not believe whatever they want. I want my country to be a real secular state (like the USA) not like opposite of Iran.
 
That will be the end of secularism that Turkey is known for. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk must be turning in his grave. Having an army with a religious bias will spell disaster.
 
Most people here are not following along. Didn't you guys read part of the title? 'Elective'..............?
Those who don't wanna learn can choose not to learn.
 
Most people here are not following along. Didn't you guys read part of the title? 'Elective'..............?
Those who don't wanna learn can choose not to learn.
Really? Those who choose not to learn may be branded as 'kafirs' by the fundamentalists. So you'll have two groups within the Army - the believers and the non-believers. What do you think would be the consequences?
 
Really? Those who choose not to learn may be branded as 'kafirs' by the fundamentalists. So you'll have two groups within the Army - the believers and the non-believers. What do you think would be the consequences?

Well i didn't make any of my opinions did i ? I'm just pointing that its says "elective" and what it basically means. You have a valid point.about believers and non-believers. There are many more other things but its best not to jump to conclusions.
 
I agree with you my friend. Teaching religion is not the duty of a secular state, but assure every citizen to learn and practice whatever they believe. It is not secular state`s duty to fire the people who practice their religion (pray five times a day, fast etc.) or their mothers or wives wear headscarf from the army. In this situation, if a student wants to learn Qur'an or our prophet life, so be it. Allow them whatever they want to believe. That is why they are elective not require core sources.

For some extremist in our country, secularism= no islam. That is why they are so angry to see such a thing. They are used to see that there is no life for religious people in our army (just reminder we call them mehmetcik which mean little Muhammeds (pbuh)). For those extreme secularist people, the religious people can be soldier and die for this country (which you can see the martyr`s families generally religious), but those cannot be an officer. This mentality makes me sick. Just leave people alone with their faith. Leave them alone to believe or not believe whatever they want. I want my country to be a real secular state (like the USA) not like opposite of Iran.

And i agree with you too mate, people must left alone with their faith but unfortunately AKP is not doing that.

Yes, there are extreme secularist people just like there are extreme islamists, extreme nationalists etc...

Even if it is elective, what is the point of this? I don't think encouragement of religion by state in the army, especially in Turkish army, is a good idea. As Saithan said, many people still considering it as the guarentor of Turkish Secularism. Leaving people with their faith alone should also cover the soldiers, but i can't see what good teaching a particular religion would bring to them. There are many Quran courses for that purpose...

And as Norboo said:

Really? Those who choose not to learn may be branded as 'kafirs' by the fundamentalists. So you'll have two groups within the Army - the believers and the non-believers. What do you think would be the consequences?

But it will be the opposite in short term, those who choose to learn Quran may face with 'mockery'. Then here we go, another wave of "Dinci ağlaklığı"...

And it might cause two different groups in the army which is, again, not good.
 
Learning Quran is a step to learn Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Ottoman. Knowing the alphabet opens the door to many paths. Ranked soldiers should be effiecient in Arabic, Persian, Dari, Urdu languages. Turkey with her historical, geographical place has responsibilities throughout the world.
 
ok, now you are in my trap. dear Aeronaut how teaching Quran in this Islamic forum is pointless but not in Turkish army?

We have many hindus here from India and Islamophobs from around the world who troll such threads and thus end up insutlting Quran and Islam thats why we dont have it on forum.
 
my second and the last post in this thread

I have no problem with the word ''Elective'' my problem is with ''Compulsory''...



Religious education is now compulsory for autistic students

An education ministry board has said autistic students will have compulsory religion classes at the expense of one hour of the physical education that is critical to their development. Experts on autistic children’s education are against the decision, saying the children will not be able to comprehend the abstract concepts of religion

The wing of the Turkish Education Ministry responsible for setting school curriculum, education material and timetable schedules has said autistic students must begin attending compulsory religion classes, daily Radikal reported Sunday.

Under current arrangements, autistic students in Turkey are educated at private institutions run by the Education Ministry. According to a Sept. 28 directive from the ministry’s Discipline and Education Board, physical education classes autistic students will receive are to be reduced by one hour a week and replaced with compulsory religion classes.

“This decision cannot be applied. Teachers will put lots of labor into it, but they will not succeed,” said Sevinç Eraslan, one of the first experts in Turkey to work with children requiring special education.According to the former special education timetable, in the first three years of an autistic child’s schooling physical education is taught in five one-hour classes per week, which is reduced to four at upper levels. Physical education is critically important for autistic childrens’ development.
Merdan Tufan, head of the ministry’s Discipline and Education Board, said he does not have all the relevant information regarding the change. However İrfan Aycan, head of unit responsible for religious education said he had not been informed of the change. “My opinion regarding this change was not sought and I have not been informed about change,” he said. The new schedule was approved by deputy head of the Discipline and Education Board Halil Aşıcı.
The curriculum of religion classes for autistic children has not yet been clarified, while it also remains uncertain who would teach the subject. The note on the schedule says that until the curriculum is prepared teachers would choose issues from the current curriculum.
[HH] Problems teaching religion to the autistic
“Autistic children live in their inner worlds and cannot communicate with outside world,” said Eraslan. “Their level of intellectual perception is very low.”
“To those students you cannot teach how to talk or to communicate, how can we teach religion?”
Eraslan agreed. “Autistic children cannot understand abstract concepts. Religion is all about abstract concepts,” she said.
Feridun Özdeş, another special education expert agreed. “Autistic children have serious difficulties in their communication with the real world. Religion is abstract and it is about consciousness,” he said.
She also touched upon the issue of reducing the hours of physical education classes. “Those children’s muscles are under developed and their motor abilities are weak,” she said explaining why physical education classes were critical for them.
Autism has no medical treatment but children with the condition can be incorporated into daily life through special training programs. It is a developmental disability significantly affecting verbal and nonverbal communication and social interaction, generally evident before the age of three that adversely affects a child's educational performance.
Other characteristics often associated with autism are engagement in repetitive activities and movements, resistance to environmental change or change in daily routines and unusual responses to sensory experiences.

TURKEY - Religious education is now compulsory for autistic students
 
Do you know 98% of this country is muslim? Do you know the US is a secular country and all soldiers read bible or Torah?

How do you think we beat "yedi duvel" in Canakkale with our military power or with our faithful soldiers and officers? The religion gave a lot of things to soldiers in our history. We beat them "yedi duvel" with out faithful soldiers

Right, let's say you are right and we won in the battle of dardanelles and the war of independence out of god's grace. So the god was hating us since the treaty of karlowitz? So Mustafa Kemal takes command and all miracles come together, suddenly we are more faithful? According to this logic we've been kafirs for more than a fvcking century so that's why we've lost Balkan wars.

Pull your heads out of your azzes men, it doesn't matter if Cpl. Seyit lifted that bullet or not we've won through superior tactics, morale and determination.
 
1. Kemalists have for decades been suppressing Islam and Muslims in Turkey. At one point during the Ataturk-Inonu regime Hajj itself was banned.

It is therefore natural that Kemalists are furious at a few basic optional religion classes in the "secular" Turkish army (the same "secular" Turkish army that calls its troops "Mehmetcikler" (little Muhammads) after the prophet).

2. Kemalists must realize they can no longer continue to oppress and abuse Turks and that Turkey belongs to Turks and not Kemalists.

3. Well done to the democratically elected Ankara government for adopting this policy.
 
I want to reshare BronzePlaque's post for those non-Turkish posters who are acting like Turkish intellectuals.

Well from point of some non-Turkish posters on this thread, i can understand their sentiment as they are not very well informed about such issues in Turkey, which is normal btw..State decides to teach some basics of Islam to her military students..By the first look of it, it seems there is nothing wrong here..But, real-politics in Turkey is upside down atm..Fethullah Gulen movement is getting stronger day by day, government undermines military and judiciary that protects Turkey`s secularism..So one has to understand the opposition from Turks to this regulation..We feel threatened not by this regulation but the source of it, current government..I am a proud Muslim, not an atheist, but i even fail to understand the necessity of this regulation

And as my -hopefuly- last post in this thread i want to reshare this image.

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