Egyptian negotiations during the PAS2019 exhibition to contract JF17 fighter jets with the transfer

[Zibago]

Egyptian negotiations during the PAS2019 exhibition to contract JF17 fighter jets with the transfer of technology

The success of the JF17, which took part in the Paris Air Show 2019, was remarkable. Discussions were held with several countries interested in buying the fighter, most notably Egypt. In this context, the Chinese sites said that Egypt will not only buy the fighter, but that will extend also to the possibility of establishing a production line and assembly. If the plan is completed, it will undoubtedly be an opportunity to open a new market for fighters in the Middle East.

According to the Chinese site Sina, Egypt plans to get 3 squadrons of the JF17 fighter, and then start production locally, in the same line of production of the K8E training aircraft, to save the effort and reduce the cost.
...
Judging from the public news of the Paris Air Show, the JF17 fighter have gradually become better in the international market. China and Pakistan are now working together to open up the international market and learn from each other's strengths. For example, Egypt is a traditional Chinese aircraft customer, the Egyptian Air Force JF17 fighter project is negotiated by the Egyptian side with China Aviation Technology, and Pakistan has promoted to Malaysia, Nigeria, and Azerbaijan. If the Egyptian Air Force introduces the JF17 fighter into a line, it marks that the JF17 fighter has entered the Middle East market and will have a profound impact on the regional and international markets. Driven by many potential customers, the most direct possibility is the Saudi Air Force. It is said that Saudi pilots have already tested the JF17 fighter. It is not ruled out that Saudi Arabia will also introduce the JF17 fighters after Egypt.


https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2019-06-21/doc-ihytcerk8415299.shtml

That will be a huge boost for future sales a lot of folks in the Maghreb and sub saharan africa region are looking for new toys

 

[Trango Towers]

guys don't fight with each other, EAF probably gonna replace jf-17 with old mirages so Egypt will not loose anything. jf-17 gonna add BVR to Egyptian new fleets (even better than f-16 and with it's pl-15 missiles), it's cheap, reliable, obviously modern compared to older planes and more importantly it's sanction free.

That will go over Arab head. Where is the laham and rice

 

[Zibago]

In the end it is China's decision. Even if some software is Pakistani I'm sure China has the capability to produce the JF-17 without Pakistan.

Its a joint venture luv

it does not suit trainer role, maybe a replacement for mirage 5??

That is what we are doing with it

The EAF is going to use the JF17 as a trainer?

It will be a very expensive trainer you sure this will be its main role?

It's worse than most of the modern Western and Russian fighters in production. Israel isn't India and Egypt needs advanced fighters like Rafale, Su-35, Mig-35. Name one modern jet in production that aviation experts would say the JF-17 is better than. Simply put, the JF-17 can't keep up with the F-35, or F-15s in Israeli service.

Yeah it cant but the whole US arm twisting wont help either

300 Pakistani engineers and pilots were involved in the project since get go.

While my dear Jordanian brother, you cant make a fuking 300 ton ship on your own.

Your forte is armouring commercial vehicles and producing russian RPGs.

There are more subtle ways of getting the point across

Jordan cant even protect the daughter of king who has run away to UK for protection. Arabs are a joke as are their Jewish masters.

You do not respond to racism and stupidity with racism

guys don't fight with each other, EAF probably gonna replace jf-17 with old mirages so Egypt will not loose anything. jf-17 gonna add BVR to Egyptian new fleets (even better than f-16 and with it's pl-15 missiles), it's cheap, reliable, obviously modern compared to older planes and more importantly it's sanction free.

American sanctions were primary motivators for us I am sure our Arab friends will know it in near and far future too

Egypt already has the K-8E production line..they want to make the JF-17 there..KSA has to get a new production line and plant..

Unless they are giving an order of multiple squadrons i highly doubt it

Pakistani pilots were trained on the J-7 which is the Chinese version of the Mig-21 they flew in that war..

We still do our female pilot who was martyred was flying one
JF-17,s are replacing them

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@The SC PAF bought J-7s much much later in the 70s.
The jets you guys had were soviet, with russian instructions and PAF pilots had no prior training on them.

I remember watching Air CDRE Abdus Sattar Alvis interview, he shot down israeli Mirage IIICJ in an early model Mig-21.
While Said ul Azam shot down 2 israelis in iraqi hunter.


He made those points about the soviet jet and its shortfalls like russian instrument instructions, short endurance, using Pakistani languages with control tower (which was also manned by Pakistanis) etc.

 

[maximuswarrior]

First we do not underestimate the value of Pakistan or Pakistani products, but they simply do not fit our requirements

View attachment 568256

The FC-1 has been rejected several times over the past 12 years. Pakistan and China have repeatedly offered to Egypt several times and have been tested and failed to be accepted by the EAF

FC-1 BLOCK i & II is rejected before FC-1 BLOCK III is not yet real product

Always FC-1 news
FC-1 is offer to Egypt by the Chinese and Pakistani authorities, not the EAF or the Egyptian Ministry of Defense

The project of the FC-1 aircraft is mainly Chinese with a Pakistani participation in financing the project by 50% and some Pakistanis also Pakistan participation is to assemble the aircraft and manufacture the Avionics at a local manufacturing rate. 58% China is the owner of the project. K-8 Produced in Myanmar and Egypt with license from China

It is simple China is the one who officially presents Egypt with its domestic production, which is the main and fundamental decision

Let's talk about some of the specifications of the Chinese FC-1

FC-1 climb rate of 254 meters per second, which is the weakest in its class, with F-16, while Egypt has Mirage 2000, the climb rate is 285 meters per second, the Rafale 305 meters per second, the MIG-29 IS 330 meters per second
So Su-35 has a climbing rate higher than 280 meters per second and is a heavy aircraft

Same thing about acceleration
View attachment 568253
According to the radar radar, the LKF601E Air Cooling Airborne AESA is 170 km for a radar target of RCS 5 m2
This Radar is able to track and target 15, and simultaneously engage 4 opponent aircrafts with the Radar Guided Missiles

While MIG-35 Zhuk-AMEh RADAR
View attachment 568252
The Zhuk-AMEh can track up to 30 targets and can simultaneously attack up to six aerial and four ground targets, a Russian defence industry source told IHS Jane's at Airshow China.
Zhuk-AMEh Range to 260 km.
radar weighs about 100 kg and has received a certificate that enables it to be exported.
http://www.janes.com/article/65271/...sia-unveils-new-aesa-radar-for-mig-35-fighter

The Russians will supply China with an RD-93MA with Trust 9300 KN while the MG 35 will supply the RD-33MKM with a boost of at least TRUST 9,500 KN engines. The Russians will not offer a more powerful version of the MiG-35 to make the Russian plane superior

The Russians have already presented Egypt with the production of the MIG 35 three months ago. I gave an example in the previous post that how to buy large numbers of aircraft and produce locally will reduce its price as a result of the local component

MIG-35 , Rafale , SU-35 can face F-15I and F-16I & F-35I are better able to fight

Egypt does not want to face the MIG-21 to get a plane that excels like FC-1
In a pastiness propaganda operation to but the MiG-21 in a Pre-killing Zone

If the life of a FC-1 compared to 4000 flight hours and compared to the price of a plane and assume 30 million dollars and its load of arms compared to the MiG 35, the Chinese plane is more expensive than the Russian plane actually


First, the Egyptian F-16s equipped with AIM-7M missiles are not without the BVR missiles. Some of the idiots and idiots are also known. Egypt's MiG-29 are equipped with the R-77, the Rafale and Mirage 2000s With MICA and ready for Meteor

EGYPT SU-35 Will Equipped with R-37M and R-77


Creating an illusion through the promotion of a plane such as FC-1 that Egypt does not have the financial Resources is big Joke

Egypt over 6 years bought 94 fighter jets
Over the next six years, we will buy more fighters with similar numbers at least From MIG-35 & RAFALE & SU-35

View attachment 568254

Buying second Deal of MIG-35 RAFALE fighter jets, SU-35 is inevitable To reduce the costs of the operation, Overfull and maintenance of fighters

Egyptian army Have Multiple sources of funding so do not stop purchases of Egypt from arms

For Example

Since November 2018 Egypt sign
Deal for 24 SU-35
Deal For 20 AW149
Deal for 32 Wing Loong 1-D UAV
7 Battery IRIS-T SLM With Over 500 Million usd

Egypt has decided instead of upgrade F-16 and putting the EAF under US pressure to buy better and cheaper planes such as The MiG-35 is supplied with all kinds of weapons that Egypt wants and thus the Egyptian F-16 turn into COIN /CAS

F-16 SLEP and Upgrade with AESA RADAR AND Aim-120 , AIM-9X , JDAM , AGM-154 will cost 30 million usd for each fighter
View attachment 568255
New MIG-35 will cost 50 Million usd with complete new life better solution for egypt

I don't think JF-17 is fit for Egyptian air force. The Egyptian air force never rejected the JF-17. They just never got ahead with aqcuistion because they always had other choices.

Egypt can buy expensive fighters as you have stated. Egypt should continue on the same path of aqcuiring Rafale and other expensive fighters. Clearly JF-17 doesn't fulfil Egyptian requirements.

The JF-17 is a good fit for PAF. JF-17 program was initiated between China and Pakistan. Pakistan is the main beneficiary and operates the biggest fleet of JF-17 fighters. PAF is focused on creating domestic fighters. Luckily we have China who can assist PAF. The goal is to produce fighters that fulfil our own requirements. Another big goal is to produce our own spare parts. We don't want to be reliant on others for spares.

JF-17 wasn't specifically produced as an export fighter initially. It was meant to replace aging aircraft in PAF inventory. The JF-17 has become a popular fighter that has caught the eye of other air forces around the world. Hence the sale to third party nations.

It is a fact that Egyptian air force has lacked BVR capability in the past. The Egyptian air force was serious to aqcuire the JF-17 in the past because they lacked a BVR capable platform. It seems that requirement is fulfilled hence there is no need for JF-17.

JF-17 or FC-1 as you like to call it has enough potential to be sold around the world. Whether the Egyptian air force "rejects" or accepts this fighter won't make any difference. Not every air force can buy Rafale or Su-35 like the Egyptian air force.

Do you really think that by buying Russian fighters the Egyptian air force can avoid pressure? As long as you remain reliant on others pressure cannot be avoided. The truth is that Egypt would love to produce its own fighter along the JF-17 joint venture model. However, that is not an easy undertaking. Buying off the shelf as opposed to producing a fighter from scratch is always an easier option. It took Pakistan and China decades before churning out block I and II. Finally a more advanced block III is soon going to be unveiled. It is hard work, patience and self-belief that leads to the end product.

 

[Gripen9]

@The SC PAF bought J-7s much much later in the 70s.
The jets you guys had were soviet, with russian instructions and PAF pilots had no prior training on them.

I remember watching Air CDRE Abdus Sattar Alvis interview, he shot down israeli Mirage IIICJ in an early model Mig-21.
While Said ul Azam shot down 2 israelis in iraqi hunter.


He made those points about the soviet jet and its shortfalls like russian instrument instructions, short endurance, using Pakistani languages with control tower (which was also manned by Pakistanis) etc.

Yes. MM Alam was horrified to see the status of Syrian AF. PAF pilots made copies of any manual they could get their hands on and try to translate.

 

[maximuswarrior]

so all claims are wrong and arab countries gave PAF pilots fake medals. That includes your own country too.

Slap claps.



I wont go into detail and bash my head..

However im interested in knowing when did Egypt test JF-17? Not sure about any Egyptian testing it in Pakistan or JFs going to Egypt.

Egypt never tested the JF-17. Egypt has always shown interest in the past due to lack of BVR capability. I believe that Pakistan and particularly China have not entertained Egyptian demand for BVR ToT.

This latest rumour is not credible in my opinion.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Egypt never tested the JF-17. Egypt has always shown interest in the past due to lack of BVR capability. I believe that Pakistan and particularly China have not entertained Egyptian demand for BVR ToT.

This latest rumour is not credible in my opinion.

No country will sell its core technology to another.

Egypt has its own example. They have thousands of Abrams, and a tank plant.. yet even in 2019, they are importing takk kits from US for assembling.

 

[maximuswarrior]

No country will sell its core technology to another.

Egypt has its own example. They have thousands of Abrams, and a tank plant.. yet even in 2019, they are importing takk kits from US for assembling.

Absolutely. There is no chance of ToT for BVR.

 

[The SC]

Unless they are giving an order of multiple squadrons i highly doubt it

They said 3 sq off the shelf and then start production.. so here you go..

I don't think JF-17 is fit for Egyptian air force. The Egyptian air force never rejected the JF-17. They just never got ahead with aqcuistion because they always had other choices.

Egypt can buy expensive fighters as you have stated. Egypt should continue on the same path of aqcuiring Rafale and other expensive fighters. Clearly JF-17 doesn't fulfil Egyptian requirements.

The JF-17 is a good fit for PAF. JF-17 program was initiated between China and Pakistan. Pakistan is the main beneficiary and operates the biggest fleet of JF-17 fighters. PAF is focused on creating domestic fighters. Luckily we have China who can assist PAF. The goal is to produce fighters that fulfil our own requirements. Another big goal is to produce our own spare parts. We don't want to be reliant on others for spares.

JF-17 wasn't specifically produced as an export fighter initially. It was meant to replace aging aircraft in PAF inventory. The JF-17 has become a popular fighter that has caught the eye of other air forces around the world. Hence the sale to third party nations.

It is a fact that Egyptian air force has lacked BVR capability in the past. The Egyptian air force was serious to aqcuire the JF-17 in the past because they lacked a BVR capable platform. It seems that requirement is fulfilled hence there is no need for JF-17.

JF-17 or FC-1 as you like to call it has enough potential to be sold around the world. Whether the Egyptian air force "rejects" or accepts this fighter won't make any difference. Not every air force can buy Rafale or Su-35 like the Egyptian air force.

Do you really think that by buying Russian fighters the Egyptian air force can avoid pressure? As long as you remain reliant on others pressure cannot be avoided. The truth is that Egypt would love to produce its own fighter along the JF-17 joint venture model. However, that is not an easy undertaking. Buying off the shelf as opposed to producing a fighter from scratch is always an easier option. It took Pakistan and China decades before churning out block I and II. Finally a more advanced block III is soon going to be unveiled. It is hard work, patience and self-belief that leads to the end product.

Egypt needs to replace its old light fighters too..J-7,F-5...etc, hence the interest in the JF-17.. for Medium and heavy fighters, Egypt can buy more Rafale, Mig-35 and SU-35..

 

[Philip the Arab]

They said 3 sq off the shelf and then start production.. so here you go..


Egypt needs to replace its old light fighters too..J-7,F-5...etc, hence the interest in the JF-17.. for Medium and heavy fighters, Egypt can buy more Rafale, Mig-35 and SU-35..

Can light fighters even compete with Israeli heavy fighters? F-35 will tear up JF-17.

 

[The SC]

Can light fighters even compete with Israeli heavy fighters? F-35 will tear up JF-17.

They will be for air defence of the land .. and yes with AESA radar they still have a good chance against anything..

Open the border to Gaza and then ask me about my sources.

Who told you they are closed..update yourself..

 

[Philip the Arab]

They will be for air defence of the land .. and yes with AESA radar they still have a good chance against anything..


Who told you they are closed..update yourself..

I doubt the AESA radar on the JF-17 could detect the F-35 until 10km. It is made to detect 3m2 RCS targets, and not 0.0001m2 RCS targets. Thr F-35 AESA would kill the JF-17 before it knew the F-35 was in the air, if you can't get a lock with a PL-15 you cant use it. Also, if there is a pair of F-35s one can use the radar as a radar jammer while the other uses it as a radar.

 

[Mithridates]

I doubt the AESA radar on the JF-17 could detect the F-35 until 10km

18 km=detection and 14 km=engagement

0.0001m2 RCS

f-35 rcs=0.005 sqm

Thr F-35 AESA would kill the JF-17 before it knew the F-35 was in the air, if you can't get a lock with a PL-15 you cant use it

jf-17 is not meant to engage with f-35, it's a cheap modern solution to fill the gaps in EAF

Also, if there is a pair of F-35s one can use the radar as a radar jammer while the other uses it as a radar.

a single plane can do that.

 

[Philip the Arab]

18 km=detection and 14 km=engagement

f-35 rcs=0.005 sqm

jf-17 is not meant to engage with f-35, it's a cheap modern solution to fill the gaps in EAF

a single plane can do that.

What kind of gaps will it fill in your opinion?