Egyptian Armed Forces

[ARCH٤R]

I am astonished and very suprised and wondering as well to why such what seems to be a very low price tag for this order of 30 aircraft. Especially with a jet that costs 160 euros per aircraft. Unless the french cut lots of corners to try and bring the price down.

Keep in mind that Egypt likely won’t need to buy many maintenance systems and facilities unlike India for example, a large country means a lot of airbases would need to be ready to maintain Rafales. Just my thoughts...

 

[Gomig-21]

I am astonished and very suprised and wondering as well to why such what seems to be a very low price tag for this order of 30 aircraft. Especially with a jet that costs 160 euros per aircraft. Unless the french cut lots of corners to try and bring the price down.

I know, ma bro, but guess what, I think it just seems like a low price but in reality, it still comes out to $150,000,000 per aircraft. That is still a HUGE amount of money, don't you think so?

And let's just do some simple match and DISCLAIMER, I am the WORST at math with the exception of geometry. Funny I failed all my Algebra classes but got A's in geometry lol.

Let's forget about the $200 million put aside for the weapon's package for the sake of simplifying the math (as you just found out, I need it as simple as possible!) as it is a rather small number.

So 30 Rafales at the cost of $4.5 (let's stick with dollars for now since I'm in the US and Euros I'm not very familiar with but I'll do the conversion at the end. So $4.5 billion / 30 = $150,000,000.

Now convert that to Euros, it's 123.3 Million Euros so it's still up there.

Not sure if that rate included the interest that is accrued over the 10 year period of the loan and how much Egypt put down for a deposit or initial payment. They paid for half the first order of 24 straight up which was around what, $6 billion or something like that. Either way, it appears that Egypt is paying roughly 123 Billion Euros per Rafale in this deal. That's lower than any other country has paid so far but let's not forget that the initial deal is always MUCH more because of training, purchasing 2 simulators and a gigantic weapons package that we're finding out as we look more into this deal. What do you think, still a very expensive aircraft I really hope it's worth it and it must be because obviously the EAF loves it and probably wants more.

Keep in mind that Egypt likely won’t need to buy many maintenance systems and facilities unlike India for example, a large country means a lot of airbases would need to be ready to maintain Rafales. Just my thoughts...

That's actually a really good point. Cost per hour of flight, Rafale - $18K while Typhoon - &8K that is a HUGE difference and the availability of combat ready aircraft out of that batch of 54 will probably be half that number as it's not feasible to fly the entire fleet because of that cost and the turn-around maintenance time needed as well as probably the primary reason is that the flyable aircraft cannot have a single problem be it large or even small. A small panel that doesn't close because hinge is broken of whatever bang, it's grounded until it's fixed and that's just a minor problem. Imagine an engine that doesn't fire up? Then after it's fixed, it has to be flown to test the problem is in fact solved so add that on top of the time the aircraft is grounded and repaired. It's a tough business.

 

[HD Seeker-5000]

I know, ma bro, but guess what, I think it just seems like a low price but in reality, it still comes out to $150,000,000 per aircraft. That is still a HUGE amount of money, don't you think so?

And let's just do some simple match and DISCLAIMER, I am the WORST at math with the exception of geometry. Funny I failed all my Algebra classes but got A's in geometry lol.

Let's forget about the $200 million put aside for the weapon's package for the sake of simplifying the math (as you just found out, I need it as simple as possible!) as it is a rather small number.

So 30 Rafales at the cost of $4.5 (let's stick with dollars for now since I'm in the US and Euros I'm not very familiar with but I'll do the conversion at the end. So $4.5 billion / 30 = $150,000,000.

Now convert that to Euros, it's 123.3 Billion Euros so it's still up there.

Not sure if that rate included the interest that is accrued over the 10 year period of the loan and how much Egypt put down for a deposit or initial payment. They paid for half the first order of 24 straight up which was around what, $6 billion or something like that. Either way, it appears that Egypt is paying roughly 123 Billion Euros per Rafale in this deal. That's lower than any other country has paid so far but let's not forget that the initial deal is always MUCH more because of training, purchasing 2 simulators and a gigantic weapons package that we're finding out as we look more into this deal. What do you think, still a very expensive aircraft I really hope it's worth it and it must be because obviously the EAF loves it and probably wants more.



That's actually a really good point. Cost per hour of flight, Rafale - $18K while Typhoon - &8K that is a HUGE difference and the availability of combat ready aircraft out of that batch of 54 will probably be half that number as it's not feasible to fly the entire fleet because of that cost and the turn-around maintenance time needed as well as probably the primary reason is that the flyable aircraft cannot have a single problem be it large or even small. A small panel that doesn't close because hinge is broken of whatever bang, it's grounded until it's fixed and that's just a minor problem. Imagine an engine that doesn't fire up? Then after it's fixed, it has to be flown to test the problem is in fact solved so add that on top of the time the aircraft is grounded and repaired. It's a tough business.

What i concerned about most too is the weapons package? 200 million is very little to spend of a a weapons package that included, hammer, meteor, scalp and the smart glider small diameter bomb and well other weapon systems etc.....

If you look at the price of the meteor it costs $2.28 million dollars per missile according to the wikipedia page. The scalp costs $1.18 million per missile, and the hammer costs 100 million per bomb (roughly). How were they able to purchase all this weapon package with just that money. Unless that another separate classified agreement that we don't know about.

 

[Gomig-21]

What i concerned about most too is the weapons package? 200 million is very little to spend of a a weapons package that included, hammer, meteor, scalp and the smart glider small diameter bomb and well other weapon systems etc.....

If you look at the price of the meteor it costs $2.28 million dollars per missile according to the wikipedia page. The scalp costs $1.18 million per missile, and the hammer costs 100 million per bomb (roughly). How were they able to purchase all this weapon package with just that money. Unless that another separate classified agreement that we don't know about.

Yep, I think we all share the same concerns. They must have bought A LOT of weapons in the first deal. That's the only thing I can think of. The HAMMER is $100 million per bomb!? That is crazy, there is 3 on each rack depending on if it's the 250kg or the much bigger 500kg, unless they made a mistake. It has to be a mistake, even though I know they are very advanced guided standoff munitions, that price is ridiculous lol.

I would've thought the SCALP would be the most expensive weapon out of the package but for the meteor to be double the price of the scalp must mean it is an unbelievable missile and basically the best one out there at the moment.

That source I posted stating Egypt has over 100 SCALPs probably means there are things we don't know for sure as usual, and the question of whether the Meteor is in fact being supplied or not will be constantly questioned until there is an actual announcement from a defense minister or we see a real pic or better yet, a video which is harder to photoshop.

 

[Philip the Arab]

The HAMMER is $100 million per bomb!?

He meant 200k dollars per bomb guidance kit which is a lot more expensive than Paveway and JDAM for a few reasons. Way less production compared to them both is the biggest reason by far for the expensive cost.

 

[Gomig-21]

During the last recent exercise with France where the EAF Rafales were performing A2A refueling qualifications from a French A330 MRTT must've been also a sales pitch to see if that was something they would be interested in or they requested to try it before starting to negotiate on purchasing 2 of them.

He meant 200k dollars per bomb guidance kit which is a lot more expensive than Paveway and JDAM for a few reasons. Way less production compared to them both is the biggest reason by far for the expensive cost.

If he meant thousands and not millions, that's much more reasonable.

 

[Philip the Arab]

If he meant thousands and not millions, that's much more reasonable.

Fun fact: South Africans at Denel developed the flight control plus the aerodynamics for the AASM project.

 

[Gomig-21]

View attachment 740910

On the contrary, Egypt is one of the countries most interested in electronic warfare systems


Egypt has already doubled its fleet
EC-130H Compass Call from 2 to 4 aircraft

And it is working on developing them continuously

https://enterprise.press/stories/20...raft-with-electronic-intelligence-capability/


Egypt will equip at least one of its Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules transport aircraft with an electronic intelligence (ELINT) capability, it was disclosed in early January.
According to a notification posted on the Federal Business Opportunities (FedBizOpps) website, the US Air Force (USAF)
has contracted Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC) to deliver
the capability. No further details were revealed.
The Egyptian Air Force (EAF) currently fields 22 C-130H and
Three C-130H-30 Hercules aircraft, any of which could be adapted to the ELINT role either through the fitting of integrated mission equipment or with a roll-on / roll-off (RO / RO) mission compartment. SNC had not responded to an
IHS Jane's request for further information at the time of writing, but the company's website lists the C-130 as one of the platforms that can be modified by its Integrated Airborne Systems division.
This latest contract announcement is not the first time that Egypt's C-130s have been linked to a proposed ELINT
upgrade. In July 2003 the US Defense Security Co-operation
Agency (DSCA) notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sales retrofit of two EAF C-130Hs with RO / RO ELINT systems. That proposed deal was to be implemented by an industry team comprising Lockheed Martin, the Mission Research Corporation (subsequently absorbed into Orbital ATK), and Plano Microwave (which became part of SNC).
While there was never any official confirmation that this effort was ever implemented, it has been reported that aircraft **** SU-BAB was one of a pair of C-130Hs to receive the ELINT modifications to bring it up to the same standard as the US Air Force's (USAF's) EC-130H Compass Call. However, images of that aircraft show it to be devoid of many of the apertures and fairings fitted to the Compass Call, and as neither the Compass Call (offensive counter-
information and electronic attack) nor the USAF's newer EC-130J Commando Solo (military information support
operations) deal in ELINT (the USAF's ELINT platform being
the Boeing RC-135 Rivet Joint), these Egyptian ELINT upgrades will almost certainly feature different systems to those fitted to the USAF's EC-130H Compass Call and EC-130J Commando Solo platforms.


View attachment 740911

Egypt owns 3 CESSNA-680 CITATION SOVEREIGN ELINT / ISR aircraft
Egypt added 2 more Beechcraft 1900 aircraft, bringing the total to 8 Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance ISRs.

View attachment 740912

Egypt has added a number of CH-5 aircraft, part of the 18 aircraft it has contracted to serve as ELINT / ISR aircraft.

View attachment 740913
Also part of the fleet of 76 WING LONG 2B aircraft is also working on ELINT / ISR missions

Egypt is developing its fleet continuously, as well as the strikes of the Wattiyeh air base, the paralysis of the Turkish electronic warfare crisis and the Hawk batteries in Libya. It was only because of the superiority in the field of electronic warfare. Are you under the illusion that Egypt buys aircraft like the Rafale and the Sukhoi 35 without investing in electronic warfare systems

Concerning early warning planes, Egypt has already negotiated with Russia over the planes, Russia A-100 AEW, and there is a problem on the Russian side. The aircraft are not yet ready to contract. The Chinese have not done anything good for the Egyptians to accept.

Egypt refuses to contract with America on the E2-D plane because Egypt no longer accepts any US arms restrictions under the pretext of protecting Israel.
So we completely ignore the American armament for 10 years

I just wanted to tell you this was a fantastic post. Great effort by you to post all that terrific detail. I totally forgot about the 4 Compass Call C-130s and the entire network. There's a whole video about them and the E-2C Hawkeyes and just nothing but as much information available which was a lot I was surprised and I forget who posted it, probably @The SC and it shows a lot of what you mentioned and some of the insides to a certain extent. But it's in Arabic so not everyone will understand it.

ELINT operations and gathering intel on other platforms and creating a library to speed up software recognition and assist rapidly in IFF is so important and a huge part of a conflict. It's not only having the library, but having the software that instantly recognizes IFF and passes it along is essential at getting the upper hand. And most air forces that are in the upper echelon have that technology and continue to use it all the time as there are always new platforms and surprises and possible enemies that create spoofing to counter that ability to identify quickly.

I wouldn't be surprised if the EAF is working out some deal with some European entity on additional new AEWCs of the newest and most advanced types out there besides SAAB as part of phasing out the E-2C, but it's going to be difficult. Nothing would surprise me at this point lol. I think that most people around here think that if they don't operate the Swedish Erieye AESA with that funny-looking squarish radar, then they don't have an equal AWACs. Not to take anything away from the Eireye or the new Saab 340 AEWCS S 100 Argus, then they simply aren't good enough. US Navy uses the E-2C quite a bit (of course it probably has better features than the one they supplied us, the last one being in 2010) and it you look at the size of the dish on that thing, it's rather large and I bet its diamter is not that much smaller than the E-3 Sentry.

 

[retaxis]

1.Israel
2.Iran
3. Turkey
4. Egypt/KSA

i think they are fair rankings in the middle east at the moment but of course, Egypt has the backing of all the arabs and israel has the backing of NATO.

 

[HD Seeker-5000]

Yep, I think we all share the same concerns. They must have bought A LOT of weapons in the first deal. That's the only thing I can think of. The HAMMER is $100 million per bomb!? That is crazy, there is 3 on each rack depending on if it's the 250kg or the much bigger 500kg, unless they made a mistake. It has to be a mistake, even though I know they are very advanced guided standoff munitions, that price is ridiculous lol.

I would've thought the SCALP would be the most expensive weapon out of the package but for the meteor to be double the price of the scalp must mean it is an unbelievable missile and basically the best one out there at the moment.

That source I posted stating Egypt has over 100 SCALPs probably means there are things we don't know for sure as usual, and the question of whether the Meteor is in fact being supplied or not will be constantly questioned until there is an actual announcement from a defense minister or we see a real pic or better yet, a video which is harder to photoshop.

This is an article that has been posted of the tactical report website. I will post the link down below:


Egypt, France, and Rafale deal
Egypt and France have signed a contract for the procurement of 30 more Rafale fighter jets from
Dassault Aviation in favor of the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) (*).
Reports from Cairo suggest that the Rafale deal went through multiple stages of negotiations,
and that the Egyptian side insisted on the delivery of MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-
air missiles (BVRAAM) with the Rafale fighters (**).
The United States and Israel had objected to the delivery of Meteor missiles to the EAF, to
preserve Israel’s qualitative military edge (QME).
The US side was actually more concerned with Egypt’s intended use for these missiles. In fact,
the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM) played an important role in delaying the Rafale
deal, as it was convinced that Egypt will be up to “no good” after receiving such missiles.
Nevertheless, the deal went through, and the 30 Rafale fighters will be delivered with Meteor
missiles.
Egypt received a discount on the 30 Rafales, which was crucial in persuading the Egyptian
government to acquire more of these fighters.
France has also agreed to refurbish, maintain and upgrade the EAF’s Rafale fleet.
The 24 old Rafale fighters willreceive software upgrades as well as further enhancements to ward
off electronic warfare (EW).
Egypt also signed a memorandum of cooperation (MoC) with Dassault Aviation that includes the
establishment of a maintenance and training unit in Egypt, which will be in charge of training EAF
engineers on maintaining and repairing Rafale fighters.
The unit will also help integrate the Rafale fighter command software into the Egyptian air
command. Egypt is planning on integrating various fighter systems in one unified command
software, since the EAF possesses various types of fighter jets with different and incompatible
internal softwares.
Egypt is rumored to be developing its own integration software for its various fighters. This
software will be unveiled during the opening of the Octagon, the new headquarters of Egypt’s
Ministry of Defense.
(*) See: Egypt, France and talks of possible Rafale deal
(**) See: Egypt Air Force, interest in Meteor missiles
Warning! This material is for personal use only. No publishing or reproduction is allowed.
Visit Tactical Report or send us an email to info@tacticalreport.com

Egypt, France, and Rafale deal

<div> Egypt and France have signed a contract for the procurement ...</div>

www.tacticalreport.com

This what is starting to make me convinced right now that the meteor will be delivery no matter what so ever.

 

[The SC]

Yep, I think we all share the same concerns. They must have bought A LOT of weapons in the first deal. That's the only thing I can think of. The HAMMER is $100 million per bomb!? That is crazy, there is 3 on each rack depending on if it's the 250kg or the much bigger 500kg, unless they made a mistake. It has to be a mistake, even though I know they are very advanced guided standoff munitions, that price is ridiculous lol.

I would've thought the SCALP would be the most expensive weapon out of the package but for the meteor to be double the price of the scalp must mean it is an unbelievable missile and basically the best one out there at the moment.

That source I posted stating Egypt has over 100 SCALPs probably means there are things we don't know for sure as usual, and the question of whether the Meteor is in fact being supplied or not will be constantly questioned until there is an actual announcement from a defense minister or we see a real pic or better yet, a video which is harder to photoshop.

$200 million must be just a deposit.. the weapons deal will come in 2024 in time of delivery..

 

[ARCH٤R]

1.Israel
2.Iran
3. Turkey
4. Egypt/KSA

i think they are fair rankings in the middle east at the moment but of course, Egypt has the backing of all the arabs and israel has the backing of NATO.

Iran? Not at any field except ballistic missiles would they prevail and they won’t defeat Egypt... I’d like to here more about this comparison.

 

[Gomig-21]

This is an article that has been posted of the tactical report website. I will post the link down below:


Egypt, France, and Rafale deal
Egypt and France have signed a contract for the procurement of 30 more Rafale fighter jets from
Dassault Aviation in favor of the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) (*).
Reports from Cairo suggest that the Rafale deal went through multiple stages of negotiations,
and that the Egyptian side insisted on the delivery of MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-
air missiles (BVRAAM) with the Rafale fighters (**).
The United States and Israel had objected to the delivery of Meteor missiles to the EAF, to
preserve Israel’s qualitative military edge (QME).
The US side was actually more concerned with Egypt’s intended use for these missiles. In fact,
the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM) played an important role in delaying the Rafale
deal, as it was convinced that Egypt will be up to “no good” after receiving such missiles.
Nevertheless, the deal went through, and the 30 Rafale fighters will be delivered with Meteor
missiles.
Egypt received a discount on the 30 Rafales, which was crucial in persuading the Egyptian
government to acquire more of these fighters.
France has also agreed to refurbish, maintain and upgrade the EAF’s Rafale fleet.
The 24 old Rafale fighters willreceive software upgrades as well as further enhancements to ward
off electronic warfare (EW).
Egypt also signed a memorandum of cooperation (MoC) with Dassault Aviation that includes the
establishment of a maintenance and training unit in Egypt, which will be in charge of training EAF
engineers on maintaining and repairing Rafale fighters.
The unit will also help integrate the Rafale fighter command software into the Egyptian air
command. Egypt is planning on integrating various fighter systems in one unified command
software, since the EAF possesses various types of fighter jets with different and incompatible
internal softwares.
Egypt is rumored to be developing its own integration software for its various fighters. This
software will be unveiled during the opening of the Octagon, the new headquarters of Egypt’s
Ministry of Defense.
(*) See: Egypt, France and talks of possible Rafale deal
(**) See: Egypt Air Force, interest in Meteor missiles
Warning! This material is for personal use only. No publishing or reproduction is allowed.
Visit Tactical Report or send us an email to info@tacticalreport.com

Egypt, France, and Rafale deal

<div> Egypt and France have signed a contract for the procurement ...</div>

www.tacticalreport.com

This what is starting to make me convinced right now that the meteor will be delivery no matter what so ever.

It sounds like the French are willing to sell whatever Egypt wants regardless of US of Israeli objections which is the way it should be and always should've been.

If they spent the entire 200 million on just the Meteor missiles, that would get them somewhere around 85 missiles. If they already have over 100 SCALPs, they don't need more in this order and it depends if part of this deal actually goes towards the MICA NG when it's ready which I would think would be soon if they're dealing for it now. I believe that was according to @Constantin84 's article on the other thread.

The deal was for 18 single seat Rafales and 12 2-seaters. If they just buy the Meteors with that allowance, and typically one aircraft carries 2 Meteors and 2 MICA IR and 2 ERs, then they should have enough for the entire fleet for a little while.

I'm just a little curious if there is any truth to the Defense Arab twitter news that both Sudan and Egypt are purchasing the J-10C. Maybe these are what would replace all the F-7s that were put away since they were Chinese-built aircraft.

الدفاع العربي Defense Arab on Twitter: "• السودان ومصر ستكونان مستخدمين محتملين للطائرة المقاتلة الصينية من طراز J-10 • المقاتلة تصنف من الجيل 4 • المقاتلة جيان J-10 وخاصة النسخة C تعد نسخة جديدة مطورة ومحدثة بشكل كبير عن سابقتها وستكون اضافة جيدة للدولتين حيث انها تمتلك تسليح متنوع ومتعدد https://t.co/SFHLpUZuxz" / Twitter

lol, if they do get the Typhoons in the Italian deal and there is truth to this possibility, just think of how people are going to react to all the different platforms that would end up in the EAF lol! But hey, half of them would be delta/canard types so there's some consistency! lmao

 

[The SC]

It sounds like the French are willing to sell whatever Egypt wants regardless of US of Israeli objections which is the way it should be and always should've been.

If they spent the entire 200 million on just the Meteor missiles, that would get them somewhere around 85 missiles. If they already have over 100 SCALPs, they don't need more in this order and it depends if part of this deal actually goes towards the MICA NG when it's ready which I would think would be soon if they're dealing for it now. I believe that was according to @Constantin84 's article on the other thread.

The deal was for 18 single seat Rafales and 12 2-seaters. If they just buy the Meteors with that allowance, and typically one aircraft carries 2 Meteors and 2 MICA IR and 2 ERs, then they should have enough for the entire fleet for a little while.

I'm just a little curious if there is any truth to the Defense Arab twitter news that both Sudan and Egypt are purchasing the J-10C. Maybe these are what would replace all the F-7s that were put away since they were Chinese-built aircraft.

الدفاع العربي Defense Arab on Twitter: "• السودان ومصر ستكونان مستخدمين محتملين للطائرة المقاتلة الصينية من طراز J-10 • المقاتلة تصنف من الجيل 4 • المقاتلة جيان J-10 وخاصة النسخة C تعد نسخة جديدة مطورة ومحدثة بشكل كبير عن سابقتها وستكون اضافة جيدة للدولتين حيث انها تمتلك تسليح متنوع ومتعدد https://t.co/SFHLpUZuxz" / Twitter
View attachment 741876

lol, if they do get the Typhoons in the Italian deal and there is truth to this possibility, just think of how people are going to react to all the different platforms that would end up in the EAF lol! But hey, half of them would be delta/canard types so there's some consistency! lmao

Chinese military sources said Sudan is a potential user of Chinese J-10 fighters

http://www.chinabjys.cn/btb/jiaoyi/4009.html

An excellent fighter for Sudan with Payload of 8 tons and 11 suspension points.. It will be a strong addition to the Sudanese army..

 

[Gomig-21]

Chinese military sources said Sudan is a potential user of Chinese J-10 fighters

http://www.chinabjys.cn/btb/jiaoyi/4009.html

An excellent fighter for Sudan with Payload of 8 tons and 11 suspension points.. It will be a strong addition to the Sudanese army..

Sudan yes. and that source you posted mentions mostly African countries and a small reference to Egypt having flown Chinese built jets and are familiar with them, but is Egypt planning a batch to replace the 60 or so F-7s? That's the bigger interest naturally. The F-7s which they had a good amount of them flew air guard patrol out of Hurghada and were in charge of the entire Red Sea shoreline, Gulf of Suez and a portion of southern Sinai. They flew a lot of patrolling and they've since retired them for what we think were the new MiGs. But those were supposed to replace the huge batch of MiG-21s. So this might be a strong possibility.