Egyptian Armed Forces

[Mamajama]

The MIG-35 is a totally new aircraft and would be ready in a few years time.

So then how would block 3 be obsolete when it is basically a new aircraft in itself. Most airforce especially European airforce are planning on using 4th gen fighters until well into the 2040s if not later. Jf-17 block 3 will not be obsolete for many years.

 

[ARCH٤R]

And I heard maybe Jf-17 Block 3? If it gets the PL-15 it would be ideal for a2a combat and taking out assets like AWACS and tanker.

Yes but it isn’t on the table I believe. It should have been signed long ago, just like the Rafale that was offered when Mubarak was president. Many, many things should have been done in Mubarak’s era, the QME should have been suppressed if Egypt had built influence in the US, we would have had over a hundred vipers by now. We had a great AOI that assembled trainer jets as well as manufacturing spares, we should have used experience and joined the JSF program if the QME wasn’t a thing. We should have went on with the Condor II project and last but not least we should have had a growing economy. The years of peacefulness Egypt enjoyed since 1978 appears to be coming to an end and it wasn’t used well. Now we improve infrastructure, tourism, quality of life and education while facing ISIS, ISIL, MB and proxy wars in Libya. If this government existed in Mubarak’s era we wouldn’t have 404 pages in this forum.

But back to the article, it makes all the sense in the world that Egypt wouldn't be concerned one bit about US sanctions and is basically telling the US to go to hell. It's actually about time. Enough is enough of this QME garbage and mistrust and all this stuff when it's always been the other way around anyway. They're the ones who attacked and stole our lands and we had to fight back and we're the bad guys?! What the heck kind of world is that?! As a matter of fact, Sisi should get even tougher with them and insist on a lot more, especially if those treaties were signed. Morocco and Bahrain are getting the SARS radar upgrade along with some other pretty rad upgrades on their F-16s and Egypt is still in this position? Something is terribly wrong with that picture and Sisi has the best ability to fix it and I hope he does.

Yes it is, can’t believe even the best defensive weapons aren’t to be sold to us. Sadly Mubarak should have done something about it back in 1992. The US needs to understand that they guaranteed a side who attacked 3 times in the past century a numerical and technological advantage, what if extremist Israelis ruled Israel? We’ll be asked to defend in a suicidal manner like in 1967. The Media, US and published history need to be neutralized again.

Egypt flouts sanctions as Russian Su-35 fighters arrive

https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/egypt-openly-taunts-us-with-russian-jet-fighter-purchase/
A good and funny article..

Here comes an article aimed at having Egypt sanctioned... I don’t think that will happen.

 

[Gomig-21]

Yes but it isn’t on the table I believe. It should have been signed long ago, just like the Rafale that was offered when Mubarak was president. Many, many things should have been done in Mubarak’s era, the QME should have been suppressed if Egypt had built influence in the US, we would have had over a hundred vipers by now. We had a great AOI that assembled trainer jets as well as manufacturing spares, we should have used experience and joined the JSF program if the QME wasn’t a thing. We should have went on with the Condor II project and last but not least we should have had a growing economy. The years of peacefulness Egypt enjoyed since 1978 appears to be coming to an end and it wasn’t used well. Now we improve infrastructure, tourism, quality of life and education while facing ISIS, ISIL, MB and proxy wars in Libya. If this government existed in Mubarak’s era we wouldn’t have 404 pages in this forum.

Spot on. I've been saying the same exact thing about the Mubarak era for a while, now. Sitting on his rear end and stuffing his pockets while really not doing anything remotely close to what Sisi has accomplished in merely 7 years is dumbfounding. In a way, he actually made it harder for whomever was to come after him because the intention was obviously to give power to his sons, so they can continue to stuff their pockets but what Sisi has been able to do with all that adversity smacking him in the face is astonishing! In this case because of this thread, limiting it to only the military and between the air force and the navy, it's like two, completely new entities that you couldn't even recognize.

Yes it is, can’t believe even the best defensive weapons aren’t to be sold to us. Sadly Mubarak should have done something about it back in 1992. The US needs to understand that they guaranteed a side who attacked 3 times in the past century a numerical and technological advantage, what if extremist Israelis ruled Israel? We’ll be asked to defend in a suicidal manner like in 1967. The Media, US and published history need to be neutralized again.

Imagine that!? Even in 1948 it's questionable as to the string of events and that it was turned into an existential threat to Israel by hook or by crook to manipulate the history of the two countries into thinking that Egypt was the aggressor to the point that it's so obvious with 1956, the WoA and 1967 that Egypt is still viewed as the "potential" aggressor is mind-boggling. And you're 100% correct about the manipulation of history, as well. The old saying that the victor writes and controls the historical narrative is nothing but a load of poopoo. That's certainly not the case, here. It's the continued alliance of the most powerful country in the world and its grasp on things that is the writer of history. That command is slowly being withered away, as we speak and we are witnessing this history with our own eyes. It's fantastic. And the crazy part of all of this is that the orange baboon is not the one to worry about, it's the possible democratic party nominee that is to worry about!!! That is the scary part.

 

[Mamajama]

Hey, so with stealth is there a way to use inertial guidance with midcourse update and terminal infrared? You know how many say that UHF and VHF radars arent good enough to track onto stealth targets but couldn't they direct them into the targets general area of say 150 metera? Isnt this what basically the Iris-T German surface to air missile doing, or American SLAMRAAM?


@Gomig-21 Also, L band is better than most bands used in seekers and tracking radars at tracking stealth you are right. Although it is not as good as other radars such as VHF. Here is an interesting Hellenic air force presentation I found.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...tealth_Aircraft_and_Anti-Stealth_Technologies

Green is VLO
Yellow is LO
Red is REDUCED RCS

 

[Gomig-21]

Hey, so with stealth is there a way to use inertial guidance with midcourse update and terminal infrared?

You know, that is a great question. Never thought about it because I think all our minds have been stuck on the first step alone, first. And that's if even stealth-shaped aircraft can be picked up on radar to begin with. So while concentrating on that technological step, we haven't given any thought to the next step which is what you just mentioned. Now that you raised the important question, we'll have to look into it and find out if it's only picking up the target but then what? How do you lock onto it and what mode are you in when you're actually battling the stealth feature while trying to guide either an A2A or a G2A missile.

You know how many say that UHF and VHF radars arent good enough to track onto stealth targets but couldn't they direct them into the targets general area of say 150 metera? Isnt this what basically the Iris-T German surface to air missile doing, or American SLAMRAAM?

Mmmmm.....very interesting! Now that you mentioned that particular type of surface to air missile system, it makes all the sense in the world that Egypt went out and bought it! I'm sure you know that Egypt acquire the German IRIST-T-SL system and with the Russian super radars -- particularly the Resonance-SE -- once a stealthy aircraft is detected, the radar is probably commanded to signal specifically the IRIS-T missiles. It makes all the sense in the world. At first we were like wait, they bought the Kub, the Tor, S-300, and they have a whole slew of other preceding systems like the Pechora, Avenger even the Patriot (we think the latter is set up in Cairo and certain valuable areas that have been worked out with the US) and other systems and right after they bought a bunch of the S-300VM batteries, they went out and bought the IRIS-T SL and we were like "wuuut?" Now that you mentioned its effectiveness to target and track stealthy aircraft, it makes sense why they got it.

Usually they distinguish SAM systems by batteries, but the IRIS-T SL was by systems and according to Wiki, Egypt bought 7 systems which include the guided missile truck and the multi-mission radar.

@Gomig-21 Also, L band is better than most bands used in seekers and tracking radars at tracking stealth you are right. Although it is not as good as other radars such as VHF. Here is an interesting Hellenic air force presentation I found.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...tealth_Aircraft_and_Anti-Stealth_Technologies

Green is VLO
Yellow is LO
Red is REDUCED RCS

That's great. I have been reading a little bit about how the X-band radar is becoming the one that's best suited for picking up stealthy targets and it's clearly that way in that picture chart. IIRC, Russians have been touting the X-band radars as the new type they'll be building for their upcoming radars.

 

[Mamajama]

That's great. I have been reading a little bit about how the X-band radar is becoming the one that's best suited for picking up stealthy targets and it's clearly that way in that picture chart. IIRC, Russians have been touting the X-band radars as the new type they'll be building for their upcoming radars.

Opposite in this situation, X band is very bad for detecting stealth because it is optimized for X and other missile bands. RAM especially makes it very hard to detect and I doubt even if a AMRAAM in this situation turned on its seeker it couldn't find the F-35 pretty easily. X band is a tracking radar mostly that provides guidance to missiles or in some cases is that seeker head in active radar guided missiles.

 

[Mamajama]

How do you lock onto it and what mode are you in when you're actually battling the stealth feature while trying to guide either an A2A or a G2A missile.

I think inertial guidance basically you fire in the direction of the target and provide mid course guidance via the UHF/VHF radar which can basically know where a target is in this 400 meter diameter for example at much farther ranges against stealth then X band or other band radars. When it is somewhat near the target(15 or 20 km away) the signal is given to turn the infrared seeker turns on and acquires the target and terminates it.


Hisar missile from the Turk uses this operation system.


The weapon is guided by an inertial navigation system (INS) through a radio frequency (RF) data link in the midcourse phase of flight.
Guidance for the missile in the terminal phase of flight is provided by an imaging infrared seeker (IIR).

 

[Mamajama]

Mmmmm.....very interesting! Now that you mentioned that particular type of surface to air missile system, it makes all the sense in the world that Egypt went out and bought it! I'm sure you know that Egypt acquire the German IRIST-T-SL system and with the Russian super radars -- particularly the Resonance-SE -- once a stealthy aircraft is detected, the radar is probably commanded to signal specifically the IRIS-T missiles. It makes all the sense in the world. At first we were like wait, they bought the Kub, the Tor, S-300, and they have a whole slew of other preceding systems like the Pechora, Avenger even the Patriot (we think the latter is set up in Cairo and certain valuable areas that have been worked out with the US) and other systems and right after they bought a bunch of the S-300VM batteries, they went out and bought the IRIS-T SL and we were like "wuuut?" Now that you mentioned its effectiveness to target and track stealthy aircraft, it makes sense why they got it.

Usually they distinguish SAM systems by batteries, but the IRIS-T SL was by systems and according to Wiki, Egypt bought 7 systems which include the guided missile truck and the multi-mission radar.

Not quite there yet, the missile does have GPS and inertial plus a RF datalink but not a good enough radar to detect stealth sadly unless very close. In mein opinion would be better with the addition of a radar that operates in VHF/UHF that would que the launcher where to launch the missile towards for stealth targets and a standard radar for targeting conventional threats.

 

[The SC]

Not quite there yet, the missile does have GPS and inertial plus a RF datalink but not a good enough radar to detect stealth sadly unless very close. In mein opinion would be better with the addition of a radar that operates in VHF/UHF that would que the launcher where to launch the missile towards for stealth targets and a standard radar for targeting conventional threats.

Chinese scientists say they have solved a fundamental dilemma inherent to radar. High-frequency radars, such as microwave radars, emit a lot of short pulses that are good for guiding weapons to a target.

Low-frequency radars, that emit waves that are meters long, are better for searching an area but aren’t precise enough for fire control (here’s a quick primer). That means high- and low-frequency radars tend to be paired for search and fire control.

Stealth aircraft are shaped to avoid detection by high-frequency beams.

“Meter wave radars can detect stealth aircraft because modern stealth aircraft are mainly designed to avoid detection by microwave radar, and are less stealthy to meter wave radar,” said The Global Times.

“However, analysts previously said that because of their low resolution and accuracy, meter wave radars can only send warnings about incoming threats. And even if microwave radars compensate for the shortcomings of the meter wave radars, they are unable to entirely overcome these shortcomings.”

Wu Jianqi, a senior scientist at the state-owned China Electronics Technology Group Corporation, told Chinese media that his team has solved this dilemma.

“Wu solved the issue by designing the world’s first practical meter wave sparse array synthetic impulse and aperture radar,” according to The Global Times. “Wu said that his radar has multiple transmitting and receiving antennas tens of meters high, scattered in a range of tens to hundreds of meters. They can continuously cover the sky as the radar receives echoes from all directions.”

https://asiatimes.com/2019/11/nowhere-to-hide-has-china-won-the-stealth-war/


German radar TwInvis
A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018

https://www.intelligent-aerospace.com/military/article/14067798/twinvis-radar-f-35-tracked


Countering Stealth Aircraft Technology: The Race to See through “Invisibility”

Russia’s Almaz-Antey 55Zh6M Nebo M is a 3-D high mobility digital AESA radar system, with three individual networked radars. It is Russia’s primary counter-stealth radar, developed specifically to detect and track stealth jets, UAVs and missiles and provide tracking data to SAM batteries and interceptor jets. The importance Russia attaches to it can be gauged by the recent announcement that 100 Nebo M systems would be expeditiously procured for Russia’s AD forces.

The Russian S-400 Triumf designed by Almaz-Antey is widely recognised as one of the most capable and lethal long-range AD systems in the world. Its AESA radar is claimed to be extremely successful in detecting stealth jets. It can engage all types of aerial targets including aircraft, UAVs and ballistic and cruise missiles within a range of 400 km. It can fire four different types of missiles with ranges between 40 and 400 km.

China’s JY-27A is a VHF AESA long-range air surveillance and guidance radar system. It is highly reliable and mobile, resistant to jamming, and can easily detect stealth aircraft such as the US F-22 and F-35. China has also developed the JY-26 radar that works in the VHF and UHF bands. Both these radars have a claimed maximum detection range of 500 km.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/...hnology-the-race-to-see-through-invisibility/

 

[Mamajama]

Chinese scientists say they have solved a fundamental dilemma inherent to radar. High-frequency radars, such as microwave radars, emit a lot of short pulses that are good for guiding weapons to a target.

Low-frequency radars, that emit waves that are meters long, are better for searching an area but aren’t precise enough for fire control (here’s a quick primer). That means high- and low-frequency radars tend to be paired for search and fire control.

Stealth aircraft are shaped to avoid detection by high-frequency beams.

“Meter wave radars can detect stealth aircraft because modern stealth aircraft are mainly designed to avoid detection by microwave radar, and are less stealthy to meter wave radar,” said The Global Times.

“However, analysts previously said that because of their low resolution and accuracy, meter wave radars can only send warnings about incoming threats. And even if microwave radars compensate for the shortcomings of the meter wave radars, they are unable to entirely overcome these shortcomings.”

Wu Jianqi, a senior scientist at the state-owned China Electronics Technology Group Corporation, told Chinese media that his team has solved this dilemma.

“Wu solved the issue by designing the world’s first practical meter wave sparse array synthetic impulse and aperture radar,” according to The Global Times. “Wu said that his radar has multiple transmitting and receiving antennas tens of meters high, scattered in a range of tens to hundreds of meters. They can continuously cover the sky as the radar receives echoes from all directions.”

https://asiatimes.com/2019/11/nowhere-to-hide-has-china-won-the-stealth-war/


German radar TwInvis
A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018

https://www.intelligent-aerospace.com/military/article/14067798/twinvis-radar-f-35-tracked


Countering Stealth Aircraft Technology: The Race to See through “Invisibility”

Russia’s Almaz-Antey 55Zh6M Nebo M is a 3-D high mobility digital AESA radar system, with three individual networked radars. It is Russia’s primary counter-stealth radar, developed specifically to detect and track stealth jets, UAVs and missiles and provide tracking data to SAM batteries and interceptor jets. The importance Russia attaches to it can be gauged by the recent announcement that 100 Nebo M systems would be expeditiously procured for Russia’s AD forces.

The Russian S-400 Triumf designed by Almaz-Antey is widely recognised as one of the most capable and lethal long-range AD systems in the world. Its AESA radar is claimed to be extremely successful in detecting stealth jets. It can engage all types of aerial targets including aircraft, UAVs and ballistic and cruise missiles within a range of 400 km. It can fire four different types of missiles with ranges between 40 and 400 km.

China’s JY-27A is a VHF AESA long-range air surveillance and guidance radar system. It is highly reliable and mobile, resistant to jamming, and can easily detect stealth aircraft such as the US F-22 and F-35. China has also developed the JY-26 radar that works in the VHF and UHF bands. Both these radars have a claimed maximum detection range of 500 km.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/...hnology-the-race-to-see-through-invisibility/

Yes VHF and UHF can spot stealth aircraft at significantly longer distances, problem is acquiring a firing solution which isnt currently possible with any SARH, or command guided missiles because tracking radar isnt able to track. Which is why the idea of a GPS/inertial guided missile with an infrared seeker seems like a good concept at least to me.

 

[The SC]

Yes VHF and UHF can spot stealth aircraft at significantly longer distances, problem is acquiring a firing solution which isnt currently possible with any SARH, or command guided missiles because tracking radar isnt able to track. Which is why the idea of a GPS/inertial guided missile with an infrared seeker seems like a good concept at least to me.

Well that is good if you can spot a stealth fighter at a great distance.. because that is where stealth is most dangerous in SEAD and DEAD.. it can lob its missiles from a 100 km f a bit more.. so if it can be detected by any ground radar.. its coordinates can be transmitted to Fighter aircrafts armed with BVR missiles.. no need for a ground firing solution..

 

[Mamajama]

Well that is good if you can spot a stealth fighter at a great distance.. because that is where stealth is most dangerous in SEAD and DEAD.. it can lob its missiles from a 100 km f a bit more.. so if it can be detected by any ground radar.. its coordinates can be transmitted to Fighter aircrafts armed with BVR missiles.. no need for a ground firing solution..

But how are the fighters going to acquire the target? Their radars are insufficient for that especially when the stealth is towards fighter radars. Maybe AWACS could provide a firing solution though.

 

[The SC]

But how are the fighters going to acquire the target? Their radars are insufficient for that especially when the stealth is towards fighter radars. Maybe AWACS could provide a firing solution though.

The best is AWACS for detection from Above and providing the coordinates and a firing solution.. but fighters today are equipped with pretty good range IRST.. they don't need to activate their radars..the main objective is to get closer and detect the stealth aircraft on their own, from the coordinates they got from the ground radars teams.. if no AWACS is there..

 

[Gomig-21]

Opposite in this situation, X band is very bad for detecting stealth because it is optimized for X and other missile bands. RAM especially makes it very hard to detect and I doubt even if a AMRAAM in this situation turned on its seeker it couldn't find the F-35 pretty easily. X band is a tracking radar mostly that provides guidance to missiles or in some cases is that seeker head in active radar guided missiles.

I read that chart in the opposite way. I thought the all-red was lesser detection and the more yellow was better detection in incremental stages. It's the other way around. I'll have to look for the literature I was reading about the Russians interest in developing more X-band radars for stealth purposes.

 

[Gomig-21]

Chinese scientists say they have solved a fundamental dilemma inherent to radar. High-frequency radars, such as microwave radars, emit a lot of short pulses that are good for guiding weapons to a target.

Low-frequency radars, that emit waves that are meters long, are better for searching an area but aren’t precise enough for fire control (here’s a quick primer). That means high- and low-frequency radars tend to be paired for search and fire control.

Stealth aircraft are shaped to avoid detection by high-frequency beams.

“Meter wave radars can detect stealth aircraft because modern stealth aircraft are mainly designed to avoid detection by microwave radar, and are less stealthy to meter wave radar,” said The Global Times.

“However, analysts previously said that because of their low resolution and accuracy, meter wave radars can only send warnings about incoming threats. And even if microwave radars compensate for the shortcomings of the meter wave radars, they are unable to entirely overcome these shortcomings.”

Wu Jianqi, a senior scientist at the state-owned China Electronics Technology Group Corporation, told Chinese media that his team has solved this dilemma.

“Wu solved the issue by designing the world’s first practical meter wave sparse array synthetic impulse and aperture radar,” according to The Global Times. “Wu said that his radar has multiple transmitting and receiving antennas tens of meters high, scattered in a range of tens to hundreds of meters. They can continuously cover the sky as the radar receives echoes from all directions.”

https://asiatimes.com/2019/11/nowhere-to-hide-has-china-won-the-stealth-war/


German radar TwInvis
A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018

https://www.intelligent-aerospace.com/military/article/14067798/twinvis-radar-f-35-tracked


Countering Stealth Aircraft Technology: The Race to See through “Invisibility”

Russia’s Almaz-Antey 55Zh6M Nebo M is a 3-D high mobility digital AESA radar system, with three individual networked radars. It is Russia’s primary counter-stealth radar, developed specifically to detect and track stealth jets, UAVs and missiles and provide tracking data to SAM batteries and interceptor jets. The importance Russia attaches to it can be gauged by the recent announcement that 100 Nebo M systems would be expeditiously procured for Russia’s AD forces.

The Russian S-400 Triumf designed by Almaz-Antey is widely recognised as one of the most capable and lethal long-range AD systems in the world. Its AESA radar is claimed to be extremely successful in detecting stealth jets. It can engage all types of aerial targets including aircraft, UAVs and ballistic and cruise missiles within a range of 400 km. It can fire four different types of missiles with ranges between 40 and 400 km.

China’s JY-27A is a VHF AESA long-range air surveillance and guidance radar system. It is highly reliable and mobile, resistant to jamming, and can easily detect stealth aircraft such as the US F-22 and F-35. China has also developed the JY-26 radar that works in the VHF and UHF bands. Both these radars have a claimed maximum detection range of 500 km.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/...hnology-the-race-to-see-through-invisibility/

Korea has also just completed its new AESA radar and is ready to mass produce it for its new K-FX stealth fighter.

South Korea unveils new fighter jet radar designed for air dominance.

https://defence-blog.com/news/south...ter-jet-radar-designed-for-air-dominance.html