Egyptian Armed Forces

[Gomig-21]

So you wouldnt have a problem with collabarating with the Chinese or others to develop a fifth gen fighter if they give ToT?

Absolutely not. We're actually quite involved with our Chinese brothers and sisters for quite some time. After the dissolution with the Soviet Union post 1973 war, a large percentage of the shift was towards the US but in order to retain a lot of the Soviet tech we already had, we looked to China and the Chinese never dissapointed us. We ended up purchasing the F-6 and of course the beautiful F-7 along with many other things. Nowadays they are hugely involved with a lot of the new infrastructure projects that are going up in Egypt and militarily, we've had a few dealings since Sisi came to power but nothing at the level of Russia or France etc. But considering they're unbelievable advancement in fighter jet technology, they'd be a great choice to partner with.

You know Bro that it goes the same for Russia as for the US.. it is business first.. so if you don't buy from them first they won't give you much.. but now that Egypt has bought the Mig-35 and promised to double the number if a particular missile come with it.., The engines might be possible..and even more, since Egypt has helped in financing new components of the Mig-35..

Even for Helwan.. the soviets proposed the Mig-21 in big numbers at that time and it was much less expensive than producing Egypt's own fighter plane..So for now it is just and still a question of economic feasibility..and if it is worth it or not! although for most of us who see it as a must we can't know the internals of what is going on about that.. maybe there are projects on the table and preparations waiting for the ripe time..

Very true. The way things are going, we might suddenly in oh....let's say.....2022, hear of some sudden news briefing that Egypt is unveiling a new fighter it has been working with Russia for the last 9 years and here it is LOL.

I still thing the Russians wouldn't mind selling us a few engines and honestly, I bet you Sisi could actually talk the Americans into using one of the GE engines and even collaborating with the US on an endeavor like this. Whether it would be the wise thing to do? Probably not, but the point is that if there's is the will, there is a way.

Do you even have the companies with the neccesary technology and know how do develop systems and subsystems from the ground up?

Yes, absolutely we do. If you followed this thread for a few years (it is over 400 pages now) you would see a lot of the developmental stages of many things. For example, the ADS was completely newly built with all the buildings for all different usages etc. AOI has building all over the place for the multitude of military things they build and ut together including the fighter building where the perform complete overhauls on all the aircraft in the fleet, from the Mirage 2000s to the F-16s and some of the older fighters before the new ones like Rafale and MiG-35 arrived and even those, they built all new HUGE buildings for the work to be performed on them.

To put up buildings to develop a prototype is nothing, nor is one to create an assembly line for the entire aircraft on a serial production scale. Really, that part of the developmental stage is nothing for Egypt.

Or else you are basically building a fighter consists mostly of foreign compenents that are bought of the shelve. A lot of nation can technicaly make fighter Jets, but to actually make on that is advanced and highly competitive or even worth the effort is another. Pakistan made the JF-17 with significant Chinese help, but that the JF-17 is capable of taking on a bulk of the Indian Air Force. If Egypt made something similar it would be useless against the Israeli Air Force because their fighter jets are highly capable.

I'm not sure about what you said there. I doubt there's much truth to that and you're seriously undermining the IAF by making that statement and just because of one incident that went their way on Feb-27, doesn't mean that will be the way it goes from here on out. Winning one battle is hardly winning the war. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about but instead of that, the Tejas would be closer to what we're talking about because the JF-17 is really the Chinese FC-31. But the Tejas is all Indian from the start (@Lord Of Gondor am I right?) and that's what I'm talking about. Designing the aircraft, designing all the systems and subsystems, building a static prototype and then producing a functional prototype that can be tested. That's much more on the lines of Tejas than of the Thunder AND...........let's be perfectly clear, here........this is no knock on the Thunder whatsoever! I don't want this to turn into a battle for the next 8 pages so making that clear. What Pakistan did with China by turning the FC-31 into the JF-17 Thunder is fantastic and all the power to them. My thoughts for what Egypt should do are more in line with what the India did with the Tejas.

They also require significant funding and infrastructure to even conceptualise one, let alone develop and build one. For example Turkey litteraly made an entire building complex who is solely dedicated to develop and focus on TFX/MMU fighter jet. Not to mention the massive workforce needed not only in engineers, but designers, technicians, artists, managers, organisers and etc etc. Best you just join ours hehehe.

Hahaha, hey, had Erdogan not opened his fat mouth and ragged on Sisis and sided with the Muslim Brotherhood whom we consider a terrorist organization and under Morsi and their influence, were destined to ruin Egypt completely. Had he just tried a little more to stay friends (since we were friends before our revolution, before Morsi even,) then we wouldn't be bickering and fighting now. So you really can't blame us for reacting to the crappy crap that came out of erdogan tbh. We never had anything bad to say about Turkey, not one single thing until he started spewing all that anti-Sisi stuff and supporting the MB when he knows quite well that the OVERWHELMING majority of Egyptians support Sisi and he's done nothing but build Egypt and make Egypt great from social aspects to the economy to foreign relations to all the domestic solutions all the way to the military. The man has been the best thing that happened to our country.

But I digress and to answer your question about having all the necessary resources to have significant funding and infrastructure to even conceptualize a new, stealthy fighter jet, let alone develop and build one....YES! Absolutely 100%! Thanks for the nice and contributing post.

We’d need to use Egyptians abroad who work for Boeing and other aviation industries as well as have the newly opening universities in Egypt contribute to the project (like Coventry). In terms of facilities funding won’t be a major problem in 2-3 years time but it’s how you build it in terms of equipment and so on. Who to co-operate with? I find the French and the Emiratis good partners, maybe even Israeli private firms since they have good relations with the UAE. However a project would need more years of good economic growth like the 2018-2019 increase, I’d mark 2026. For now Egypt should think about upgrading the F-16 fleet to a Block 70 standard, it all depends on the negotiation skills of Egypt. I might sound funny but I also mean signing early contracts for upgrades before Democrats sit in the White House.
Right @Gomig-21 ? Egypt trusts no Democrat..

Man, you are so spot on with every single thing you said right there, even the TABOO subject you mentioned and I love it! Having the guts to say that is awesome! Imagine that, if there was some sort of cooperation with Israel!?!?!?!?!?!???!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!??!?!?! looool. Even if it was indirectly through the UAE or whomever? Would the people be ok with that? Do they need to know? Will they find out? It's better to be transparent but are we ready to traverse that bridge? The problem is Israel is not helping its relationship with us Arabs becasue of all the land grabbing they're doing right now even in the west end and their treatment of Palestinians and of course, the worst thing the Orange Baboon did with Jerusalem ad basically giving them a carte blanch to do whatever they want and annexing the WB and Golan won't sit well politically in Egypt and so I would say that Israel is probably out with a boot in the a$$.

But other than that, you nailed everything else. This is so doable it's not even funny and what makes it also something that is worth it and doesn't take away from other necessities is the fact of all the things going on that you have in your infrastructures thread. All the right things are being done for Egypt and the people and so spending on this type of thing would be very welcomed at the same time.

Egypt had all that 60 years ago.. It can improve on it if it sees the economical worthiness of such a project or not!

The Helwan HA-300 interceptor

Including the engine

https://againstallodds.fandom.com/wiki/Helwan_HA-300

Yeah, ma bro. There's no doubt that if something of that caliber we were able to produce back in the late 50's and early 60's (and granted Mr. Messerschmidt) was instrumental in helping out with the entire project as well as India which was involved to some significant extent and ended up buying it I think once Egypt had to fight wars with that gaddam land-grabbing and stealing entity next door and we couldn't keep this project going. What a true shame. Do you know how much work we were involved in with the engine, bro?

Unique AESA technology proposed

July 18th, 2017

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/unique-aesa-technology-proposed/http://www.rusaviainsider.com/unique-aesa-technology-proposed/

You took the words right out of my mouth, bro. That's exactly what I was saying and granted the engines were German, right? Still, they have extensive experience with those and that can be a hole R&D project of its own. Why not, right?

Remember this little beauty. I forget what year this thing was built in Egypt. Al Gomhuriya. It's no Helwan but hey, it has its merit in this discussion.

Engaging into a project like would probably be 10 times more difficult for Egypt today with the current generation of fighters out there to today. Even the United States that's an economic power house in the world today has not been able to develop and produce the F-35 on it own and had to partner with 6 other countries on the program to be able to get it done.

Well, yes and no IMO. I think the US had a conglomeration of certain countries into the JSF program in order to control the market more so than the cost of the program since financing the F-35 was strictly done by our money, the taxpayer that is! lol. And all that money came from the US treasury. Look at the F-22, same thing and Obama shut that program down not really because of cost, but because he was advised that the future of US military airpower was going to be in the F-35 until the unmanned programs get to the level they're looking for.

Yeah Turkey made airplanes at one point to. The difference is ofcourse the costs and sheer amount of advanced technology that is used in today's planes is far to big to make an accurate comparison. You would quite litteraly need dosens of companies along with hundreds of contracts to be assigned to even create the basic subsystems or suite for the airplane. That alone is gonna cost a lot of time and money. Then ofcourse you have the engine and design, not to mention radar and armaments.

If Egypt wants to take steps into the field of aviation, its best you start with small steps first before taking massive leaps. Basic trainers or advanced trainer jets always have a market, and they arent as expensive and time consuming to make. Plus with Egyptian Air Force's recent acquisition of fighter jets, no doubt there is a need for more of these trainer aircrafts.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, the only small step to take is to start a missile program. Start building A2A missiles while developing the radars that they're already developing and have a head start on that. Reverse engineer a few A2A missiles and don't be shy about it, even if they get caught. Do it just like the Chinese did when they reverse engineered anything they could get their hands on. All that experience of building their versions of the MiG-15, 17, 16, 21 and Su-30 and so on opened the door for their ability to build the J-10 and J-20 and all the others in between. If no one wants to give us the ToT for these ultra sensitive and high-ed weaponry, then we steal it. I know it's haraam to speak this way and to do these things, but it's for the good of the country and so let's see Sisi and Co. do it. Get a weapons program to go along with the new fighter concept.

Back to stealth jets, if you look at some of these designs, these are really not that intimidating to be able to develop one that is similar to any of these that are either designs that lost to others (like the X-32) or being considered or are in the planning stage.

This was such an ugly and radical design that lost to the F-35 but every time I see this aircraft, I think it's one of the most beautiful designs ever put on the table! Simply a pure beauty and if it wasn't for trying to force VTOL on it, it might've won. The F-35's engine design with the ingenious lift fan is really what made the difference. It also was a Rolls-Royce patented drive shaft so they did get a little help from the Brits for that.

This would be something I would consider copying in a heartbeat! It's actually a rather simpler design from a conventional aircraft when you think about it.

Then you have India's future stealth fighter. Very nice and simple design. Look at this beauty.
@Lord Of Gondor , what is the name of this aircraft, bro?

The Japanese X-2. While very nice, I would consider this to be a bit more of a complicated design. I would much more prefer the US pelican or India's design over this.

Look how China made short work of this beauty! They whipped this thing up and out and slapped us all in our faces including the US military and stunned us after hitting us on the head with a sledgehammer in the shape of a J-20 LOL. Personally, I think these F-22-style aircraft are too difficult to build as starter ones. Others that don't have horizontal stabilizers and just canted V-stabs seem to offer an easier build IMO.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

But the Tejas is all Indian from the start (@Lord Of Gondor am I right?) and that's what I'm talking about. Designing the aircraft, designing all the systems and subsystems, building a static prototype and then producing a functional prototype that can be tested. That's much more on the lines of Tejas than of the Thunder AND...........let's be perfectly clear, here........this is no knock on the Thunder whatsoever! I don't want this to turn into a battle for the next 8 pages so making that clear. What Pakistan did with China by turning the FC-31 into the JF-17 Thunder is fantastic and all the power to them. My thoughts for what Egypt should do are more in line with what the India did with the Tejas.

Yup

Then you have India's future stealth fighter. Very nice and simple design. Look at this beauty.
@Lord Of Gondor , what is the name of this aircraft, bro?

This is the AMCA: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (Program name)
India spent ~$300M on the "Preliminary Design" phase for the FGFA/PAKFA but decided to go at it alone after some years. I am certain that a lot of know how and know why was gained by the Indian side and also the Tejas entering squadron service in 2016 gave a big boost of confidence that such a complex program can be executed at home.

 

[ARCH٤R]

Absolutely not. We're actually quite involved with our Chinese brothers and sisters for quite some time. After the dissolution with the Soviet Union post 1973 war, a large percentage of the shift was towards the US but in order to retain a lot of the Soviet tech we already had, we looked to China and the Chinese never dissapointed us. We ended up purchasing the F-6 and of course the beautiful F-7 along with many other things. Nowadays they are hugely involved with a lot of the new infrastructure projects that are going up in Egypt and militarily, we've had a few dealings since Sisi came to power but nothing at the level of Russia or France etc. But considering they're unbelievable advancement in fighter jet technology, they'd be a great choice to partner with.



Very true. The way things are going, we might suddenly in oh....let's say.....2022, hear of some sudden news briefing that Egypt is unveiling a new fighter it has been working with Russia for the last 9 years and here it is LOL.

I still thing the Russians wouldn't mind selling us a few engines and honestly, I bet you Sisi could actually talk the Americans into using one of the GE engines and even collaborating with the US on an endeavor like this. Whether it would be the wise thing to do? Probably not, but the point is that if there's is the will, there is a way.



Yes, absolutely we do. If you followed this thread for a few years (it is over 400 pages now) you would see a lot of the developmental stages of many things. For example, the ADS was completely newly built with all the buildings for all different usages etc. AOI has building all over the place for the multitude of military things they build and ut together including the fighter building where the perform complete overhauls on all the aircraft in the fleet, from the Mirage 2000s to the F-16s and some of the older fighters before the new ones like Rafale and MiG-35 arrived and even those, they built all new HUGE buildings for the work to be performed on them.

To put up buildings to develop a prototype is nothing, nor is one to create an assembly line for the entire aircraft on a serial production scale. Really, that part of the developmental stage is nothing for Egypt.



I'm not sure about what you said there. I doubt there's much truth to that and you're seriously undermining the IAF by making that statement and just because of one incident that went their way on Feb-27, doesn't mean that will be the way it goes from here on out. Winning one battle is hardly winning the war. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about but instead of that, the Tejas would be closer to what we're talking about because the JF-17 is really the Chinese FC-31. But the Tejas is all Indian from the start (@Lord Of Gondor am I right?) and that's what I'm talking about. Designing the aircraft, designing all the systems and subsystems, building a static prototype and then producing a functional prototype that can be tested. That's much more on the lines of Tejas than of the Thunder AND...........let's be perfectly clear, here........this is no knock on the Thunder whatsoever! I don't want this to turn into a battle for the next 8 pages so making that clear. What Pakistan did with China by turning the FC-31 into the JF-17 Thunder is fantastic and all the power to them. My thoughts for what Egypt should do are more in line with what the India did with the Tejas.



Hahaha, hey, had Erdogan not opened his fat mouth and ragged on Sisis and sided with the terrorists Muslim Brotherhood whom were destined to ruin Egypt completely and tried a little more to stay friends (since we were friends before our revolution, before Morsi even, then we wouldn't be bickering and fighting now. So you really can't blame us for reacting to the crappy crap that came out of erdogan tbh. We never had anything bad to say about Turkey, not one single thing until he started spewing all that anti-Sisi rubbish and supporting the MB when he knows quite well that the OVERWHELMING majority of Egyptians support Sisi and he's done nothing but build Egypt and make Egypt great from social aspects to the economy to foreign relations to all the domestic solutions all the way to the military. The man has been the best thing that happened to our country.

But I digress and to answer your question about having all the necessary resources to have significant funding and infrastructure to even conceptualize a new, stealthy fighter jet, let alone develop and build one....YES! Absolutely 100%! Thanks for the nice and contributing post.



Man, you are so spot on with every single thing you said right there, even the TABOO subject you mentioned and I love it! Having the guts to say that is awesome! Imagine that, if there was some sort of cooperation with Israel!?!?!?!?!?!???!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!??!?!?! looool. Even if it was indirectly through the UAE or whomever? Would the people be ok with that? Do they need to know? Will they find out? It's better to be transparent but are we ready to traverse that bridge? The problem is Israel is not helping its relationship with us Arabs becasue of all the land grabbing they're doing right now even in the west end and their treatment of Palestinians and of course, the worst thing the Orange Baboon did with Jerusalem ad basically giving them a carte blanch to do whatever they want and annexing the WB and Golan won't sit well politically in Egypt and so I would say that Israel is probably out with a boot in the a$$.

But other than that, you nailed everything else. This is so doable it's not even funny and what makes it also something that is worth it and doesn't take away from other necessities is the fact of all the things going on that you have in your infrastructures thread. All the right things are being done for Egypt and the people and so spending on this type of thing would be very welcomed at the same time.



Yeah, ma bro. There's no doubt that if something of that caliber we were able to produce back in the late 50's and early 60's (and granted Mr. Messerschmidt) was instrumental in helping out with the entire project as well as India which was involved to some significant extent and ended up buying it I think once Egypt had to fight wars with that gaddam land-grabbing and stealing entity next door and we couldn't keep this project going. What a true shame. Do you know how much work we were involved in with the engine, bro?



You took the words right out of my mouth, bro. That's exactly what I was saying and granted the engines were German, right? Still, they have extensive experience with those and that can be a hole R&D project of its own. Why not, right?

Remember this little beauty. I forget what year this thing was built in Egypt. Al Gomhuriya. It's no Helwan but hey, it has its merit in this discussion.

Well, yes and no IMO. I think the US had a conglomeration of certain countries into the JSF program in order to control the market more so than the cost of the program since financing the F-35 was strictly done by our money, the taxpayer that is! lol. And all that money came from the US treasury. Look at the F-22, same thing and Obama shut that program down not really because of cost, but because he was advised that the future of US military airpower was going to be in the F-35 until the unmanned programs get to the level they're looking for.



While I agree with you to a certain extent, the only small step to take is to start a missile program. Start building A2A missiles while developing the radars that they're already developing and have a head start on that. Reverse engineer a few A2A missiles and don't be shy about it, even if they get caught. Do it just like the Chinese did when they reverse engineered anything they could get their hands on. All that experience of building their versions of the MiG-15, 17, 16, 21 and Su-30 and so on opened the door for their ability to build the J-10 and J-20 and all the others in between. If no one wants to give us the ToT for these ultra sensitive and high-ed weaponry, then we steal it. I know it's haraam to speak this way and to do these things, but it's for the good of the country and so let's see Sisi and Co. do it. Get a weapons program to go along with the new fighter concept.

Back to stealth jets, if you look at some of these designs, these are really not that intimidating to be able to develop one that is similar to any of these that are either designs that lost to others (like the X-32) or being considered or are in the planning stage.

This was such an ugly and radical design that lost to the F-35 but every time I see this aircraft, I think it's one of the most beautiful designs ever put on the table! Simply a pure beauty and if it wasn't for trying to force VTOL on it, it might've won. The F-35's engine design with the ingenious lift fan is really what made the difference. It also was a Rolls-Royce patented drive shaft so they did get a little help from the Brits for that.

This would be something I would consider copying in a heartbeat! It's actually a rather simpler design from a conventional aircraft when you think about it.

Then you have India's future stealth fighter. Very nice and simple design. Look at this beauty.
@Lord Of Gondor , what is the name of this aircraft, bro?

The Japanese X-2. While very nice, I would consider this to be a bit more of a complicated design. I would much more prefer the US pelican or India's design over this.

Look how China made short work of this beauty! They whipped this thing up and out and slapped us all in our faces including the US military and stunned us after hitting us on the head with a sledgehammer in the shape of a J-20 LOL. Personally, I think these F-22-style aircraft are too difficult to build as starter ones. Others that don't have horizontal stabilizers and just canted V-stabs seem to offer an easier build IMO.

@Gomig-21 I think Egypt should build the engine in partnership with SAFRAN, the company that makes the Rafale’s SNECMA. Egypt would need an advanced fighter with active cancelling of radar waves and a cost efficient airframe, Mach 2 capable and European weaponry along with an Egyptian made standoff missile.
A stealth fighter with:
- A joint made engine between Egypt, SAFRAN and a private university firm in Egypt.
- Wired with the European missiles and bombs as well as some local free fall bombs, improved NASR 100, 250, 500 & 1000 and runway bombs with a chance of adding a JDAM kit. Mind that you’ll need to build AASM Hammers in locally because they are expensive, there is also small A-G missiles planned by the UAE and France - that’s in.
- Egyptian made ECMs and jammers as well as flare/chaff dispensers and French missile detection systems and IRSTs.
- An indigenous AESA radar, maybe France can help with that since European BVR missiles would be integrated.
- An indigenous standoff missile with various sizes and warheads.
- The aircraft design can be Egyptian, would be subject to change based on the intakes for the engines and hardpoint locations. Yet, to have a good estimation what the actual design will be you’ll need to have an idea where everything would go and how heavy/light it’ll be.
- Need it to be Carrier based? You’ll need more work on the bottom fuselage, flaps and cockpit visibility just so pilots don’t land on carriers with weird AOAs. This would delay the project by 1/2 years at best.
- It should have a combat range of 1,900 at least.
- Capable of super cruise and be powered with an available fuel in Egypt.
- Be proven in sandy climate, yes, not desert but sandy climate. The borders between Egypt and Libya are mostly a part of the Great Sand Sea and it’s sandy effect.

The list goes on... But here I highlighted some points. I’d like to know more points in your heads.

 

[Gomig-21]

Yup

Yeah and so even though parts of the aircraft are "off the shelf" items, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that because of 2 factors: 1) it's more likely to be cheaper and 2) it's a lot quicker.
The one thing that comes to mind is the front landing gear. I remember talking about that with you and another fella on the Indian News thread when I said the front landing gear looks exactly like the Mirage 2K's and the other fella thought I was ragging on it lol. He didn't realize I was just noticing it because I was thinking about all these things and how off the shelf items are a great idea in aiding on an indigenous product.

This is the AMCA: Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (Program name)
India spent ~$300M on the "Preliminary Design" phase for the FGFA/PAKFA but decided to go at it alone after some years. I am certain that a lot of know how and know why was gained by the Indian side and also the Tejas entering squadron service in 2016 gave a big boost of confidence that such a complex program can be executed at home.

And TBH with you, $300 million is pocket change when it comes to learning that kind of information or even being privy to the program and acquiring the knowledge etc. Dirt cheap and money well spent IMO. I think if Egypt was offered anything of the sort, something of the caliber of the PAK-FA to be part of the initial design phase and having an entire group of engineers learn from that experience is well worth the three hundred mil.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Yeah and so even though parts of the aircraft are "off the shelf" items, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that because of 2 factors: 1) it's more likely to be cheaper and 2) it's a lot quicker.
The one thing that comes to mind is the front landing gear. I remember talking about that with you and another fella on the Indian News thread when I said the front landing gear looks exactly like the Mirage 2K's and the other fella thought I was ragging on it lol. He didn't realize I was just noticing it because I was thinking about all these things and how off the shelf items are a great idea in aiding on an indigenous product.

You are bang on as far as the cost and time are concerned.
There are no commonalities with the Mirage-2000 and Tejas, the Mirage-2000 is a much bigger jet with a more powerful engine.
Program highlights for the Tejas: https://www.tejas.gov.in/technology.html
Mirages in India will be replaced by the MWF(Medium Weight Fighter) which has identical MTOW and Engine power specifications(17T and 95kN for the M2K, 17.5T and 98kN for the MWF) but this is some years away.

 

[Gomig-21]

There are no commonalities with the Mirage-2000 and Tejas, the Mirage-2000 is a much bigger jet with a more powerful engine.

I was told by that other Indian fella on that thread that the front landing gear was basically a Mirage 2K landing gear off the shelf, that's not correct? It's very similar-looking.

The point anyway is that even if it is, that's not such a terrible idea whatsoever to help things along. For a starting prototype, I would use whatever I can off the shelf to ease the process until capabilities grow and more of those common items can be built in-house efficiently and at cost.

 

[Gomig-21]

The list goes on... But here I highlighted some points. I’d like to know more points in your heads.

The only thing I would add to that bit of genius work right there is I hope the brass is somehow reading this stuff and particularly that post right there!!!! Brilliant! That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I do think the French would be VERY difficult and not too willing to give out any ToT on any SNECMA. Forget about the Rafale's, even the Mirage 2K's engine I think they would snoot their nose up at us lol. @Vergennes @BON PLAN what do you fine fellas think about Arche's idea? Any chance Dassault would partner with Egypt to build an Egyptian copy of a SNECMA for our indigenous dream stealth AC?

 

[ARCH٤R]

The only thing I would add to that bit of genius work right there is I hope the brass is somehow reading this stuff and particularly that post right there!!!! Brilliant! That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I do think the French would be VERY difficult and not too willing to give out any ToT on any SNECMA. Forget about the Rafale's, even the Mirage 2K's engine I think they would snoot their nose up at us lol. @Vergennes @BON PLAN what do you fine fellas think about Arche's idea? Any chance Dassault would partner with Egypt to build an Egyptian copy of a SNECMA for our indigenous dream stealth AC?

We need to settle our argument about the French lol.
Till this day you are more independent with the mirage than the F-16, I was told by a researcher Egypt can overhaul the Mirage 2000’s engine. Above that I know 2 ex Mirage 2000 ground personnel, they told me the French gave Egypt the capability of making its own Magic II testers as well as edit the aircraft’s software. Not sure if Egypt can do the same with the other airframes.
Egypt modified the Mirage Vs and not the F-4s...

 

[Mamajama]

I found this online on Facebook and wonder how useful it would be for SHORAD, probably very good for stealth targets. Probably at least 50km range for aerial targets and low flying cruise missile if mounted on a mast.




Day and night surveillance and imaging system Egyptian industry produced by the Arab Organization


for Industrialization Range of detection for vehicles: 30 km

Range of identification and verification of vehicles: 10 km

Range of detection for individuals: 18 km

Range of identification and verification of individuals: 4.2 km

 

[The SC]

Yeah, ma bro. There's no doubt that if something of that caliber we were able to produce back in the late 50's and early 60's (and granted Mr. Messerschmidt) was instrumental in helping out with the entire project as well as India which was involved to some significant extent and ended up buying it I think once Egypt had to fight wars with that gaddam land-grabbing and stealing entity next door and we couldn't keep this project going. What a true shame. Do you know how much work we were involved in with the engine, bro?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandner_E-300

I believe a lot of Egyptian Engineers and technicians were involved.. they have planned on making 90 Helwan HA-300 fighter interceptors.. so the Egyptian involvement was comprehensive and deep..

 

[Mamajama]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandner_E-300

I wonder if it still possible to make this jet. I mean that jet could be still be used on trainers for example probably.

 

[The SC]

I wonder if it still possible to make this jet. I mean that jet could be still be used on trainers for example probably.

The concept is old but it is there..You need modern tech today.. But it shows that when there is a will..there is a way..

 

[The SC]

Yeah Turkey made airplanes at one point to. The difference is ofcourse the costs and sheer amount of advanced technology that is used in today's planes is far to big to make an accurate comparison. You would quite litteraly need dosens of companies along with hundreds of contracts to be assigned to even create the basic subsystems or suite for the airplane. That alone is gonna cost a lot of time and money. Then ofcourse you have the engine and design, not to mention radar and armaments.

If Egypt wants to take steps into the field of aviation, its best you start with small steps first before taking massive leaps. Basic trainers or advanced trainer jets always have a market, and they arent as expensive and time consuming to make. Plus with Egyptian Air Force's recent acquisition of fighter jets, no doubt there is a need for more of these trainer aircrafts.

Egypt is getting 24 Aermacchi M-346 Master from Italy ..the best trainer in the world.. on top of that.. Egypt was making the Alpha jets And the K-8E locally for decades now.. So that is not the route for Egypt now..

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

I was told by that other Indian fella on that thread that the front landing gear was basically a Mirage 2K landing gear off the shelf, that's not correct? It's very similar-looking.

The point anyway is that even if it is, that's not such a terrible idea whatsoever to help things along. For a starting prototype, I would use whatever I can off the shelf to ease the process until capabilities grow and more of those common items can be built in-house efficiently and at cost.

The aircraft are completely unique wrt each other and no common mechanical systems exist between the two.
Tejas has a MTOW of 13.5T so the LG has to be designed for that weight specifically. The M2Ks landing gear may be overkill and may impose weight penalty as it is designed for MTOW of 17T.
Arrangement may look superficially similar though.
Your point on using off the shelf items is very important to keep costs low as even few changes will be very expensive(ISE for just 36 Rafales for India is over $1B!, whereas IAF ordered 21 MiG-29UPGs for as much!)
The Indian built Su is >$60M whereas the Irkutsk built Su costs a lot less thanks to only Russian origin systems.
And even for the Tejas, GE upgraded the F404 to the IN20 with more thrust and a FADEC system and last I remember the price was ~ $9M!
Compare that to the RD-33 which HAL is building at under $2M!
But everything has a tradeoff and you get what you pay for, I guess.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

@Gomig-21