Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[hussain0216]

So the numbers were estimated by the egyptian military do you have any independent verification like say election monitors or EU observers.

The same for the petition, who counted them, who collected them, how do you know people were not making up numbers and signatures. What independent verification do you have for these alleged 22 million signatures and how does that beat an official election, an official ballot, with observers from around the world


In democracy you get a chance to vote, if you DONT vote thats your problem, you dont get to ***** and whine afterwards. Your next chance to express your will is at the next election. Not mob protests to bring down a democracy


Politicians break electoral promises its how it works you then punish them by not voting for them, not go bat **** crazy calling for regime change. Simply because you cheat the people who voted for them. Then the opposition has no reason to either respect YOU or your choice or your fake democracy and your new fake president. Why should the opposition respect these people when the same respect wasent given to their choice.

I studied international relations and politics for my degree and masters, Morsi's first year in politics was marred by constant demonstrations, a judiciary full of mubarak era clowns trying to be as obstructive as possible, a military full of mubarak era clowns waiting to pounce

A Elite and media full of mubarak era clowns acting with immense bias. They had no intention of letting the man lead or complete his term.


As soon as protests get under way the miliatry pounced, warrants for the Muslim brotherhood leaders already printed.

The brotherhood headquaters under siege and attack for hours with no police or military protection

TV stations shut down

This crap dosent happen without planning


This is all pathetic, as you say your not a muslim, probably a copt so of course your going to screw over the egyptian population


You have bought down democracy and it is imperitive for the sake of muslim democracies across the world that the Muslim brotherhood fights for their rights' their deposed legitimate leader and for Egypt.

65 years egyptians put up with secular dictators, and the scums didnt even give Mursi one year if peace to try to fix decades of theft and mismanagement

 

[Hussein]

This is all pathetic, as you say your not a muslim, probably a copt so of course your going to screw over the egyptian population

1/ who is copt ? frogman?
2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?

 

[MooshMoosh]

1/ who is copt ? frogman?
2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?

Coptic Egyptians strongly opposed the Islamist government and they are preferrable to military rule as Coptic Pope Tawadrosa already stated he supported military rule meaning Coptic Egyptians follows him. The Health ministers who counts the death and injury tolls this week cannot be trusted because they also support military rule meaning they either get paid by secular govts or the army to spread bs in the media. The pro supporters claimed the army had killed hundreds and injured thousand, not only men (mostly) but children as well while the army claimed "terrorist" started this and added less to what Pro's claimed. According to what I have seen on the net is the army shooting unnarmed civilians who wanted just simply protest against the coup and not to mention the anti protesters were violent which they were carrying tools, breaking pro cars and beating pros but the media never showed what they do like I said, they focus on one side which is the anti except Aljazeera who showed decent coverage on "both side". I am against military rule, since the overthrow of King Farouk, they suffered under the brutality of Abdel Nasser and Mubarak. Anwar Sadat was better than those two sc*ms.

 

[Jamaal Yelmaaz]

The fantasy about 17 million and 22 million is laughable.

The anti-democracy, Western puppets are dominant on the internet and media. Their claims are a joke and a smokescreen for the military coup.

Mate, the numbers of million is may be correct. But last year they werent absent in Egypt. after date of election they should have born.
The smiliar plot commited against AKP government. They started 100 thousands rallies with the massive West media support. But within 1 month they successively deminished to 10 thousands later to thousands now they continue to protests with 200-400 persons.

That military coup is doomed. Next election there will be a stronger MB.
The only single reason why MB has no ally from outside is the patriotic structure of MB. No one can buy them. They are real Egeyptian. No west or iran and KSA could buy and set them as per to their interest. That is why all these countries together cheering the topple of MB.
Every country is striving to bring his puppet in power in Egypt.

 

[Frogman]

So the numbers were estimated by the egyptian military do you have any independent verification like say election monitors or EU observers.

I would ask you the same thing if is wished to be difficult, do you have any evidence to contradict these claims?

Another thing, why would EU observers or monitors be invited to oversee a protest? and who exactly would invite them (at a time when most foreign ministries are advising their citizens to leave the country).

Plus, monitors or observers are only used to oversee state sanctioned events such as elections or referendums and not protests. What would their job entail exactly and how would they be able to estimate the numbers on the ground without reconnaissance vehicles or satellites.

The evaluation of the situation was carried out by the armed forces for the presidency before the ultimatum was set and the results were presented to the presidency in order to show how widespread the protests were and that there was urgent need for national reconciliation, as always the presidency rejected and sealed its own fate.

The same for the petition, who counted them, who collected them, how do you know people were not making up numbers and signatures. What independent verification do you have for these alleged 22 million signatures and how does that beat an official election, an official ballot, with observers from around the world

In what world do monitors or observers oversee the signing of petitions?

Was the petition against here in the UK overseen by observers and monitors?

The answer is we simply don't know, however, the people who carried out this petition are innocent until proven guilty, if you have evidence of malpractice or fabrication then provide it if not then your accusations are meaningless as per any respectable judicial system.

This petition wasn't supposed to beat anything. Petitions are not legally binding and can be ignored by governments no matter how many signatures they collected. Petitions are simply a tool used to apply pressure on governments or institutions on a certain issue, nothing more. A petition on its own cant topple a regime.

In democracy you get a chance to vote, if you DONT vote thats your problem, you dont get to ***** and whine afterwards. Your next chance to express your will is at the next election. Not mob protests to bring down a democracy

Democracy is a continuous process not just a ballot in a plastic box.

As for not being allowed to complain then you have completely misunderstood representative democracy. When an MP or president is elected it is their job to govern or lobby for the interests of their citizens or constituents no matter if they voted for them, against them or not at all because they represent their borough in the houses of parliamentary system or the nation in a presidential system.

Politicians break electoral promises its how it works you then punish them by not voting for them, not go bat **** crazy calling for regime change.

Breaking electoral promises is one thing but exceeding the mandate given to you by the people and endangering the nations national security while consolidating power in an increasingly authoritative manner (among other things) is an entirely different matter.

So if someone breaks the oath they swore to protect the nations security, breached the mandate given to them by the people and imprisoned political activists and journalists you would happily spend another 3 or 4 years for a vote that will be rigged in the ruling regimes favour as they would control all of the countries major institutions and rig electoral laws to favour themselves?

Simply because you cheat the people who voted for them. Then the opposition has no reason to either respect YOU or your choice or your fake democracy and your new fake president. Why should the opposition respect these people when the same respect wasent given to their choice.

Spare me the sweat and typing. The MB had no intentions of setting up a democratic process in Egypt nor did they respect the very constitution they supported nor did they respect common law, however, now that they have been removed from power they are suddenly champions of democracy and constitutional rights.

I studied international relations and politics for my degree and masters

Well it was clearly at a rag tag establishment with no entry standards as you seem incapable of providing an evaluative or synoptic statement and struggle with simple democratic principles. Plus the standard of writing and the mannerisms you use are no where near the level of someone with a masters let alone a C grade in A level Government and Politics.

Morsi's first year in politics was marred by constant demonstrations, a judiciary full of mubarak era clowns trying to be as obstructive as possible, a military full of mubarak era clowns waiting to pounce

Obstructive as possible for a reason. If a president issues a constitutional decree in which he gives himself unlimited (legislative or otherwise) power in order to stop the constitutional assembly being dissolved (after being found illegitimate by the constitutional court as a result of parties and religious officials pulling out in protest at how the assembly was being run) and pushing through an illegitimate constitution to referendum then its the judiciary's right to be obstructive as possible.

As for Mubarak era clowns then the chief prosecutor (an integral part of Egypt's judicial system) who was replaced by Morsi using constitutional powers he granted himself who was reinstated by the judiciary would have advocated for the return of Mubarak or something that would favour the old guard however he resigned on the day he was reinstated.

A Elite and media full of mubarak era clowns acting with immense bias. They had no intention of letting the man lead or complete his term.

If your regime is threatened by questions or jokes even if biased and against you then your regime never had a chance in the first place.

As soon as protests get under way the miliatry pounced, warrants for the Muslim brotherhood leaders already printed.

Protests had started a week in advance (before the 30th). The military had also called for reconciliation talks for the past six months and a week before the ultimatum, the presidency refused. This coup wasn't a surprise and the military certainly wasn't the primary player in the equation.

The brotherhood headquaters under siege and attack for hours with no police or military protection

Mate, you just described the country's predicament over the past two years for every Egyptian.

TV stations shut down

And some left open such as Aljazeera. You obviously haven't watched some of these channels. Most started a media campaign of takfir and slander in addition to inciting hatred and violence upon others. Im all for free speach and being objective, however, when someone incites hatred or violence they must not be tolerated.

This crap dosent happen without planning

Of course it doesn't and everyone saw what was happening except for one governing party. Everything was over that table and had been for months.

This is all pathetic, as you say your not a muslim, probably a copt so of course your going to screw over the egyptian population

You see the inciting hatred or violence bit I was talking about yeeeaahh youre doing it.

Just so you know I'm agnostic and I love every inch of Egyptian sand and dust more than you love your god and its national prosperity comes before my life or the life of my family.

65 years egyptians put up with secular dictators, and the scums didnt even give Mursi one year if peace to try to fix decades of theft and mismanagement

Because he decided to fix it with further mismanagement.

 

[hussain0216]

Im unable to respond right now, but

Observers during elections are important in order for a fair and free process, as a result petitions with random numbers being thrown around of 17 million are worthless and do not trump democratic elections & a democratic mandate. This is why it is annoying when shills like yourself keep claiming to act on behalf of the egyptian people when opinion is so divided and no free or fair monitored process has taken place to determine the will of the egyptian people APART FROM THE ELECTION which bought the MB to power.

Everything you and the liberal tamrod slime keep saying is opinion,

You state "The MB had no intentions of setting up a democratic process in Egypt", how do you know this, did you even give them a chance other then the 11 months they had.

This is all opinion, you believe they were trying to controle, but others dont. There are millions of people in egypt who hold and alterntive view so why should your desire for a military led coup and removal of the regime be upheld when millions of others who voted for the MB and the president be ignored


In a democratic system the process of electing and removing a president and government is through the ballot box not the idiot mob.
With everybody respecting the system, the election and the results, thus ifthe liberal slime party came to power in the next election all MB supporters MUST adhere to the results of the elections and respect the results and new government, but when their choice of person is in power the same respect must be given to him/them.

You muppets did nothing, you were so self serving in your actions that you overthrew a democratically elected president because your little group didnt like him.


It is now of utmost important that the muslims of egypt fight this tooth and nail

Oh by the way,

President Zardari of Pakistan was an utter idiot and ruinous for the nation and state, he did nothing but mismanage the country for 5 years, but we did not overthrow the muppet, he was worse then Morsi.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

@Yzd Khalifa

Do you like Saudi Arabia to have real functional democratic system?

Not really. Honestly. I side with my people and I support them unconditionally.

 

[idune]

Not really. Honestly. I side with my people and I support them unconditionally.

Majority Saudis would perfer to have elected govt over monarchy. Who are your people then? And if you dont want democracy your point of view on Egyptian discourse is baised by undemcratic and dictatorial method. And that is the problem as these secular/liberals has no broad base support to win election and form govt only way they can get to power is unrest and with gunpower.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Are you trying to argue with me about what my people want and don't?

Majority Saudis would perfer to have elected govt over monarchy. Who are your people then? And if you dont want democracy your point of view on Egyptian discourse is baised by undemcratic and dictatorial method. And that is the problem as these secular/liberals has no broad base support to win election and form govt only way they can get to power is unrest and with gunpower.

We've got a different stand about Egypt though.

 

[flamer84]

1/ who is copt ? frogman?
2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?

Because crazy mullahs like him living in the 10th century still view people based on religion beliefs not as human beeings living together in a country,continent,etc.Copts beeing christians are automatically the enemy,these people are the equivalent of the christian nutjobs who went on a killing rampage during the crusades,ofcourse all "in the name of God and true religion".

No point in telling these trolls that we live in 2013 right now,their mind is a waste land polluted with corrupt religious fervor.

 

[idune]

Are you trying to argue with me about what my people want and don't?
We've got a different stand about Egypt though.

Its always good to know the propective from which you are making arguments. As far as Saudis, you have your understandng as local, I have mine from reading and talking to different people from Saudi Arab. Majority of Saudis I have met in University and at Mosque or in professional capacity are in opinion that Saudi Arab needs to get rid of monarchy and introduce democratic process. Also democracy does not mean exactly western style govt. That may not come ovenight but building institutions could be starting point. Challenge is house of Saud who are making wholesale looting of Saudi wealth would never let that happen.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Its always good to know the propective from which you are making arguments. As far as Saudis, you have your understandng as local, I have mine from reading and talking to different people from Saudi Arab. Majority of Saudis I have met in University and at Mosque or in professional capacity are in opinion that Saudi Arab needs to get rid of monarchy and introduce democratic process. Also democracy does not mean exactly western style govt. That may not come ovenight but building institutions could be starting point. Challenge is house of Saud who are making wholesale looting of Saudi wealth would never let that happen.

Well, if that's your perception, then be it.

 

[Solomon2]

Written by : Ali Ibrahim
on : Tuesday, 9 Jul, 2013

Opinion: Egypt’s “déjà vu”

The world-famous French expression “déjà vu”—which is also the title of a famous film—means thinking that a new incident or life experience had occurred before. This expression may be somehow applied to the current events in Egypt, particularly the new revolution of June 30. The difference is that the revolution is not a quirk of the human brain, as scientists and psychologists define déjà vu. In fact, what happened in Egypt is an everyday reality.

Almost the same scenes of the January 25, 2011, revolution against the former president have been repeated on June 30, 2013, against the deposed President Mursi. Even the slogans used are very similar. In fact, what happened is like a film whose scenario went out of control or did not meet the hopes of the director who accordingly stopped filming and reconstructed the scenario. The difference between the film that the world-famous Denzel Washington starred in and the situation in Egypt is that the director rewriting the scenario is the angry protesters who occupied the streets and the squares of Egypt, attracting the attention of political movements and regional and international players.

Similar to what happened on January 25 and the first transitional period that followed, the June 30 revolution has been caused a regional and international reaction. Unable to ignore the role of international powers, local players in Egypt try to woo, or at least neutralize, them. However, the difference now is that attitudes have changed. Regional players that had supported January 25 revolution expressed their opposition to June 30 on the pretext of the legitimacy of change by the ballot box. The side that managed to topple the president justify themselves that those who took to the streets in the millions represent the same legitimacy that everyone accepted and acknowledged when it toppled the former president. They wonder why they oppose the toppling of Mursi in the same way. They also insist that in both cases this legitimacy demanded the support of the military, a thing which happened in both cases.

Many believe that the reason why a second revolution has happened, leading to the ouster of a supposedly freely elected president on his first anniversary in office, is due to the mistakes committed during the first transitional period, creating ever-deepening divisions throughout the last two and a half years. It all started when elections were held before a constitution was drafted to serve as a middle ground that everybody accepts. Instead, this led to a parliament which was dissolved and a president who, because he did not have specific powers, issued constitutional declarations to award himself almost absolute powers. This is not to mention the constant clashes between the presidency and the judiciary, as well as the rapidly collapsing economy and the government whose strategic interests are threatened by domestic weakness.

Why did that happen? History will answer that question. However, the state of perplexity everybody felt following the fall of Mubarak in 2011 and the absence of political leaders who can instruct and negotiate on behalf of youth movements and the protesters led a political trend which is not favored by the public to take control.

Now there is no way these mistakes can be repeated. Moreover, given the opportunity to correct the revolution, the one to run Egypt during the transition period should strike a balance between wisdom and firmness in order to avoid the scenarios of chaos or civil war that the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has mentioned. The bloody confrontations that took place yesterday and the day before, as well as the violent footage being circulated on social networking websites, please no one and presage danger.

The regional and international scene is split between those who describe what happened as a “coup d’état” and the ones who prefer to wait, particularly after seeing the massive protests. This division and state of polarization point to the confusion over June 30 to the extent that friends have become enemies. In fact, Egypt is going through the most difficult time throughout its modern history, and the future of Egypt hinges on how the transitional period will be managed to enable the country escape the danger.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

@Frogman @MooshMoosh @Mahmoud_EGY

Saudi aid package $5 billion to Egypt

 

[idune]

Turkish Deputy PM condemns military coup in Egypt

9 July 2013

Turkish Deputy PM Arinc said Turkey strongly condemns military coup in Egypt that removed the country's elected president from office

ANKARA (AA) - Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Arinc said has Turkey strongly condemned "the mentally that topples the legitimate government and the president, fires on its own people and hands over the authority to someone else in Egypt."
Speaking at a press conference after a cabinet meeting Monday Arinc said Turkey would maintain its "principled and ethical manners" towards the incidents in Egypt.

"It is out of question to impose sanctions on the government which thinks that they have taken over the power," Arinc said.

Referring to the "historic and rooted relations" between the two countries Arinc said, "maintaining solidarity with Egyptian people, elected President Mohamed Morsi and the government is what we are trying to do."

Arinc said 8 million Egyptians participating in mass protests were against the military coup, adding that the number of people who welcomed the coup ha also decreased.

Full Report:
Turkish Deputy PM condemns military coup in Egypt, 9 July 2013