What's new

Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

U.S., allies were near a deal for peaceful end to Egypt crisis

2013-08-06T132011Z_01_AMR103_RTRIDSP_3_EGYPT-PROTESTS.jpg



By Anne Gearan and Colum Lynch, Published: August 16 E-mail the writers

Two weeks before the bloody crackdown in Cairo, the Obama administration, working with European and Persian Gulf allies, believed it was close to a deal to have Islamist supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi disband street encampments in return for a pledge of nonviolence from Egypt’s interim authorities.

But the military-backed government rejected the deal and ordered its security forces to break up the protests, a decision that has resulted in hundreds of deaths and street clashes that continued Friday in the capital.

The agreement nearly brokered two weeks ago sought statements of restraint from both sides and an inquiry into competing claims of violence and mistreatment, said Bernardino León, the European Union’s envoy for Egypt. That was supposed to be a prelude to talks between the Muslim Brotherhood and the government.

Former Egyptian vice president Mohamed ElBaradei appeared to back the deal but could not convince Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, the head of the military, León said. ElBaradei resigned after violence erupted.

The proposal was the result of weeks of visits and calls to Cairo by an unlikely diplomatic coalition representing supporters and opponents of Morsi and declared neutral parties, led by the United States.

The diplomatic squeeze play was meant to underline strong international opposition to any violent government action against Morsi’s supporters and to tell the Muslim Brotherhood it had no choice but to disband street encampments.

Together with Deputy Secretary of State William J. Burns and the foreign ministers of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, León presented a proposal to scale back protests and initiate talks between the Muslim Brotherhood and the government, participants said.

“It was a quite simple package the four of us were supporting,” León said in a interview, but one that would be difficult to resurrect now.

The envoys had hoped to clear the squares without violence and set the stage for the transition to elections that the military had promised when it pushed Morsi from office on July 3, León said.

The failed proposal represented the most intensive U.S. involvement to try to avert bloodshed, and demonstrates the new limits of U.S. influence over both the military and Islamists backing Morsi. Both sides have harshly criticized Washington, and each has accused President Obama of backing its opponent.

For weeks before Wednesday’s government crackdown, Secretary of State John F. Kerry or Burns spoke nearly every day with the foreign ministers of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, whose influence with the opposing sides in Egypt was often stronger than Washington’s.

The two small, rich Gulf nations play outsize roles in regional foreign policy and tend to back different sides in Mideast conflicts. Along with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, the two Gulf states are sending more money to Cairo than the United States is, several officials involved in the effort said.

Throughout the six-week crisis, the United States has leaned on the UAE to intercede with the interim government and the Egyptian military, and used Qatar as a go-between with the Muslim Brotherhood. Qatar, which has backed Islamist movements and is accused of backing militants in Syria, has emerged as a leading international backer of the Brotherhood.

“It’s natural that we would have interacted with these countries because they are the ones that are playing, that have strong relations, in Egypt,” a senior U.S. official said Friday as renewed street fighting killed at least 60 people, including eight Egyptian police officers.

The U.S. official and others interviewed requested anonymity in order to discuss closed-door diplomacy. None was optimistic that the kind of negotiation they had hoped to foster two weeks ago could resume anytime soon.

Numerous other countries were also pressing Egyptian authorities not to use force to disperse street encampments.

“Clearly nobody had enough clout with the military to say put this off another week, put this off another two weeks,” said F. Gregory Gause III, a professor of Middle East politics at the University of Vermont. “But I think that it’s a mistake to judge American influence in Egypt based on our ability to get them to fundamentally change the direction of domestic politics. We’re the most powerful country in the world, but states don’t give up power just because foreign patrons say do it.”:lol:

Qatari Foreign Minister Khaled bin Mohammed al-Attiyah and UAE chief diplomat Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed bin Sultan each made repeated visits to Cairo, sometimes overlapping with Burns and León, diplomats said.

Their joint proposal stressed the mutual goal of avoiding a bloody confrontation and left for later the hard questions of what to do with the jailed Morsi and the political participation of his backers in any future election.

The Muslim Brotherhood called Friday for continued daily protests in support of Morsi, while the government enforced a curfew and said it will use deadly force to stop attacks on government institutions.

Diplomatic efforts appeared at a standstill Friday. The European Union contemplated a pullback of aid to the interim government in protest of the deaths of about 700 people this week. Saudi King Abdullah, who frequently speaks for many Arab states, said he stands behind the Egyptian government in its fight against “terrorism and strife.” That suggested backing for the government’s hard line — just the opposite of the message the U.S.-backed proposal had sought to send.

At the United Nations, U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power spoke in favor Thursday of efforts to pass a Security Council expression of concern about the prospect of deepening violence.

But U.N. Deputy Secretary General Jan Eliasson gave a gloomy assessment of prospects to negotiate a way out of the crisis, according to two diplomats in the room.

“Eliasson was skeptical about the possibility of a positive evolution of the situation in the short term, given the antagonistic positions of the Egyptian parties,” said one diplomat. “He said that none of the key players in Egypt are open to listening to advice coming from abroad. They are not open to confidence-building, bridge-building missions.”

Michael Hanna, an expert on Egypt at the Century Foundation, said in a telephone interview from Cairo that international diplomats there seemed at a loss.

“There is a sense that Egypt has crossed the line,” Hanna said.

U.S. allies were near a deal for peaceful end to Egypt crisis - The Washington Post
 
. .
@islamrules my condolences for another hundreds that died on Friday.

What percentage of people of Egypt are anti-coup in your estimate? MB-supporters and non-MB Muslims. I know Copts and Mubarak era cronies are for this coup and want to eliminate MB.

MB declared another week of protest. Looks like they want to continue to take casualty. Is this to gain sympathy among:
1. non-MB Muslims
2. people in the world who are not bigoted against Muslims and Islamists and
3. the rank and file soldiers and young officers in Egyptian Army?

And what is the level of support among Egyptian soldiers and young officers for Sisi and his policies? Is it increasing after these killings.

I think GCC govt.'s will continue to support Sisi as long as they think that he can win, but if MB has a winning strategy and can show that they can come out a winner in this struggle, with or without defection from Army, then a lot of people will support MB, including GCC govt.s. Right now, everyone is disgusted with the killings and are sympathetic to MB because of this, but most are betting that MB is going to loose in the end, so they are supporting Sisi, either secretly or openly.

In short, there has to be a winning strategy, in all wars, strategy and execution of that strategy is everything. And only a winning strategy will bring more people to MB side.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
@islamrules my condolences for another hundreds that died on Friday.

What percentage of people of Egypt are anti-coup in your estimate? MB-supporters and non-MB Muslims. I know Copts and Mubarak era cronies are for this coup and want to eliminate MB.

MB declared another week of protest. Looks like they want to continue to take casualty. Is this to gain sympathy among:
1. non-MB Muslims
2. people in the world who are not bigoted against Muslims and Islamists and
3. the rank and file soldiers and young officers in Egyptian Army?

And what is the level of support among Egyptian soldiers and young officers for Sisi and his policies? Is it increasing after these killings.

I think GCC govt.'s will continue to support Sisi as long as they think that he can win, but if MB has a winning strategy and can show that they can come out a winner in this struggle, with or without defection from Army, then a lot of people will support MB, including GCC govt.s. Right now, everyone is disgusted with the killings and are sympathetic to MB because of this, but most are betting that MB is going to loose in the end, so they are supporting Sisi, either secretly or openly.

In short, there has to be a winning strategy, in all wars, strategy and execution of that strategy is everything. And only a winning strategy will bring more people to MB side.

no condolences accepted bro, as for the strategy , I seriously suggests they attack the media city but then again they can't because the army is there, Yesterday Sisi didn't give them time to turn Ramsis square into the new Rabia n Nahda .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
no condolences accepted bro, as for the strategy , I seriously suggests they attack the media city but then again they can't because the army is there, Yesterday Sisi didn't give them time to turn Ramsis square into the new Rabia n Nahda .

Brotherhood need to be persistent and strategic about their resistance against genocidal Saudi puppet regime. Turkish establishment need to rethink its strategic alignment and relation and regroup. That could bring change in shortest possible time.
 
. .
scaled.php


Egyptian Message: EGYPT WILL NEVER BE LIKE PAKISTAN


BossBear_tnb.png

Pakistani Message: STOP MURDERING YOUR OWN PEOPLE, IDIOT!


------------

Walk like a Pakistani?

Saturday, August 17, 2013
From Print Edition

In 2012, when Hillary Clinton visited Egypt, she was greeted by protesters waving banners that said ‘Egypt will never be like Pakistan’. At the time it seemed as if this was a derisive statement but recent events in Egypt have proved that it was really one of despair combined with envy. After seeing the horrific events unfolding on the streets of Cairo, I must say that it is an unfortunate loss for Egypt that it cannot be like Pakistan.

Pakistan suffered four military regimes but democracy bounced back with vigour each time. The previous government, despite being extremely unpopular, completed its full five-year term. The military, to its credit, refused to repeat its past mistakes and did not interfere in politics. The way thousands of peaceful demonstrators were massacred in Egypt is unimaginable. So with sympathy for the Egyptians, I must say: thank God Pakistan is not like Egypt.


Ahmed Zaheer
Islamabad

Walk like a Pakistani? - thenews.com.pk
 
. . .
"This article is up to date and includes all massacres against Christians starting from Muslim Brotherhood ruled Egypt till the 15th of August 2013. Just remember that when Brotherhood and Mohammed Morsi were ruling Egypt and specifically them and their Islamist extremists Militias were massacring Christians, your Governments never cared to even condemn any massacres, whether against Christians or the whole Egyptian Community."

Muslim Brotherhood Massacres Against Christians In Egypt | Eman Nabih
shame on them
 
.
no condolences accepted bro, as for the strategy , I seriously suggests they attack the media city but then again they can't because the army is there, Yesterday Sisi didn't give them time to turn Ramsis square into the new Rabia n Nahda .

Not sure why you would not accept my condolences bro, from afar providing moral support and expressing my outrage and sympathy is all I can do. Egypt is not same as Bangladesh, as we have now a so called democratic govt. which is actually an Indian puppet regime, ruled by pro-India thugs. And they tried to copy Tahrir square in a place called Shahbag square protected by police, which became a fest of atheists and seculars attacking Islam. So Islamic minded people protested and had their own sit-in. This was broken up with live bullets in the same way what we are seeing now in Egypt. Hundreds of people lost their lives apparently, but because it happened at night with lights cut off by the invading security forces, no one knows the real death toll:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/236464-bangladesh-revolution-news-updates.html

Now everyone in Bangladesh are waiting for next election in Jan. 2014, to vote out this current govt., although the current govt. has completed all preparation to rig this election, placing their loyal election officials, police etc. So there is trouble brewing there in Jan. 2014.

Getting back to the strategy you mentioned. It is clear Army will not let MB destroy their main propaganda weapon, pro-coup media. So that will not work, they will apply full force if necessary.

Having another sit-in is also not going to work, they know what happened in Tahrir and now they have learned their lessons. They will not allow any more sit-in, regardless of loss of lives. I think non-violent options are no longer workable, sit-ins will not be allowed and marches will be fired upon. The loss of lives can be a strategic weapon to gain sympathy among the non-MB Muslim population of Egypt, civilian and military. That could be a valid strategy, if it actually works.

An armed struggle can work only if a majority of Egyptian population supports this struggle, civilian and eventually military. Foreign friends and supporters will get involved if there is a winning combination, which is majority support among Egyptian population.
 
. . . .
Not sure why you would not accept my condolences bro, from afar providing moral support and expressing my outrage and sympathy is all I can do. Egypt is not same as Bangladesh, as we have now a so called democratic govt. which is actually an Indian puppet regime, ruled by pro-India thugs. And they tried to copy Tahrir square in a place called Shahbag square protected by police, which became a fest of atheists and seculars attacking Islam. So Islamic minded people protested and had their own sit-in. This was broken up with live bullets in the same way what we are seeing now in Egypt. Hundreds of people lost their lives apparently, but because it happened at night with lights cut off by the invading security forces, no one knows the real death toll:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/236464-bangladesh-revolution-news-updates.html

Now everyone in Bangladesh are waiting for next election in Jan. 2014, to vote out this current govt., although the current govt. has completed all preparation to rig this election, placing their loyal election officials, police etc. So there is trouble brewing there in Jan. 2014.

Getting back to the strategy you mentioned. It is clear Army will not let MB destroy their main propaganda weapon, pro-coup media. So that will not work, they will apply full force if necessary.

Having another sit-in is also not going to work, they know what happened in Tahrir and now they have learned their lessons. They will not allow any more sit-in, regardless of loss of lives. I think non-violent options are no longer workable, sit-ins will not be allowed and marches will be fired upon. The loss of lives can be a strategic weapon to gain sympathy among the non-MB Muslim population of Egypt, civilian and military. That could be a valid strategy, if it actually works.

An armed struggle can work only if a majority of Egyptian population supports this struggle, civilian and eventually military. Foreign friends and supporters will get involved if there is a winning combination, which is majority support among Egyptian population.

bro martyrdom is celebrated by the martyr's relatives since he will be granted by allah the right to to choose 70 of them and give them access to jannah ... so no condolences .
where do u think the Bangledeshi gvt got that idea from, I mean covering their backs up with corrupt Judeciary system n corrupt loyal media n police n military .
I agree the sit-ins won't work, and the devision between Egyptians goes as far as inside each family , so even if they want to mobilize a solide base of muslims against the seculars n christians who r pro sisi ... is would be impossible to define the enemy from the ally in a battle field , the only place where an armed operation might succeed is Sinai , because 99% of the tribes r islamists n they have a History of confrontation with the Police n military, but then again they will be fought from all sides
 
.
Back
Top Bottom