Each MiG-35 to cost only $30 mil for the Russians. Is the IAF listening?

[neehar]

i will be waiting dude..............after land acquisition bill,forget about acquiring land for industries

pls research online on cons of this bill and we will discuss

i know the bill.similar acts are there in other countries too not just in india. dnt expect that the bill will be implemented in spirit and practice as it is on the paper.there are many ambiguous things which has to be clarified according to the bill such as how is the market price determined..its still immature to discuss about the bill.let it pass and we shall discuss.the food security act itself has not become an act now lets wait not be hasty.in any case i dont think a few populist schemes would hamper indian economy forever.our govts made many worse populist schemes not just at the national level but also at the state level..like tamil nadu freebies and andhra rice scheme.they will impact the "market sentiments" temporarily.once the govt is replaced market sentiment would improve.and dont think that coming party would scrap all these acts.they dare not to...once a law is made it can be nullified only by a law.and populist schemes are seldom nullified for the new party may fear the public sentiments might hurt..

 

[he-man]

i know the bill.similar acts are there in other countries too not just in india. dnt expect that the bill will be implemented in spirit and practice as it is on the paper.there are many ambiguous things which has to be clarified according to the bill such as how is the market price determined..its still immature to discuss about the bill.let it pass and we shall discuss.the food security act itself has not become an act now lets wait not be hasty.in any case i dont think a few populist schemes would hamper indian economy forever.our govts made many worse populist schemes not just at the national level but also at the state level..like tamil nadu freebies and andhra rice scheme.they will impact the "market sentiments" temporarily.once the govt is replaced market sentiment would improve.and dont think that coming party would scrap all these acts.they dare not to...once a law is made it can be nullified only by a law.and populist schemes are seldom nullified for the new party may fear the public sentiments might hurt..

just 4 points in the bill will **** us

1)In rural areas price of the land to be acquired would be 4 times the market rate

2)In urban areas price would be 2 times the market rate

3)To acquire land u have to get acceptance of at least 80% of pl concerned

4)Once u get the land u have to rehabilitate ppl and failure to do so will force u to pay rs 3,000 per month to the person concerned

Now u tell me...............is it gonna work??

Who will be foolish enough to leave china,vietnam,singapore,malaysia etc to come here??

pls read before getting overtly hopeful

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...the-land-acquisition-bill-113082900824_1.html

 

[kaykay]

@he man mig-21s will be retired by 2017-2018 but not all mig-27s(they will start phasing out with rafale). Secondly how come 350 figure??

 

[neehar]

1)am i supporting mig-35 here??pls read post no 5

2)my analysis stands,no one can predict future by the way.........yes we will be vulnerable for 3-4 years atleast

solution----sign deal fast(any) and rollout the tejas to replace mig-21

3)Ur point on cost escalation is hilarious........considering the rafale will cost atleasttwice the mig-35

atleast they maintain the same cost.as i said its not a grossary business.once the deal is signed and a budget is allotted for the purpose its not easy to allot the new funds due to any unexpected rise or delays.so even its 30 million dollars and they demand 10 million extra twice after postponing the deadline thrice .it would be a greater disadvantage for us than buying a 80 million plane and alloting the whole sum for the purpose and paying in installments and procuring with out the delays.and secondly as i said.this would happen in case of any plane not just rafale and just because we're late even if are doesnt mean that we should stop buying the plane because in that case we would be left with no planes one day.as i said atleast they will be reliable and theres probability that the russians assure u that they would deliver in 2017 and post pone it by another year or two but even rafale meets the deadline in 2018 as they promised thats fine...i know u want things to be done fast so do i .but situations are different on ground..the current govt has many scam taints including some in defence so any faults in the defence acquisitions may affect the bureaucrats in future and this is a big deal so they're over cautious they dont want to get arrested when someother party comes to power next year...redtapism is in india whether we accept or not.

 

[he-man]

@he man mig-21s will be retired by 2017-2018 but not all mig-27s(they will start phasing out with rafale). Secondly how come 350 figure??

I HOPE THIS ARTICLE WILL PUT UR DOUBTS TO REST

MiG-27 to face silent death in IAF | idrw.org

 

[he-man]

atleast they maintain the same cost.as i said its not a grossary business.once the deal is signed and a budget is allotted for the purpose its not easy to allot the new funds due to any unexpected rise or delays.so even its 30 million dollars and they demand 10 million extra twice after postponing the deadline thrice .it would be a greater disadvantage for us than buying a 80 million plane and alloting the whole sum for the purpose and paying in installments and procuring with out the delays.and secondly as i said.this would happen in case of any plane not just rafale and just because we're late even if are doesnt mean that we should stop buying the plane because in that case we would be left with no planes one day.as i said atleast they will be reliable and theres probability that the russians assure u that they would deliver in 2017 and post pone it by another year or two but even rafale meets the deadline in 2018 as they promised thats fine...i know u want things to be done fast so do i .but situations are different on ground..the current govt has many scam taints including some in defence so any faults in the defence acquisitions may affect the bureaucrats in future and this is a big deal so they're over cautious they dont want to get arrested when someother party comes to power next year...redtapism is in india whether we accept or not.

Dosen't really matter.......the fact is we have fucked ourselves u by not signing deal in 2011 or 2012

As for russian stuff,u get what u pay............u cannot expect a spaceship in 40 million dollars and remember the delays were for vikramaditya only and let me explain the reason to u


1)Indian navy had decided to buy the ship in 1998 or early 2000(pls check dates,could be wrong)

2)We wanted the cheapest retrofitso instead of allocating work to the shipyard with some experience in building large ships we decided to hold an auction

3)In that auction sevmash shipyard quoted the least amount,about 900 million dollars

4)Now focus here.............................sevmash shipyard had no prior experience in building large surface ships,let alone an aircraft carrier!!

5)Sevmash shipyard specialises in submarine manufacture,,,u are free to search


Now tell me who fucked up??

here

http://www.sevmash.ru/eng/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmash(look at the list of what they have constructed so far)

 

[kaykay]

I HOPE THIS ARTICLE WILL PUT UR DOUBTS TO REST

MiG-27 to face silent death in IAF | idrw.org

well if Mig-27 will retire by 2017 then Mig-21s will serve beyond 2017 till Rafale comes in good number say 2019-2020.

 

[Dillinger]

@kaykay So what is this thread really about? Lots of opinions, lots of facts presented out of context albeit correct facts in the main. Chal kya raha hai yahaan?

 

[kaykay]

@kaykay So what is this thread really about? Lots of opinions, lots of facts presented out of context albeit correct facts in the main. Chal kya raha hai yahaan?

OP itself is a BS and we are just continuing that. Lols

 

[neehar]

just 4 points in the bill will **** us

1)In rural areas price of the land to be acquired would be 4 times the market rate

2)In urban areas price would be 2 times the market rate

3)To acquire land u have to get acceptance of at least 80% of pl concerned

4)Once u get the land u have to rehabilitate ppl and failure to do so will force u to pay rs 3,000 per month to the person concerned

Now u tell me...............is it gonna work??

Who will be foolish enough to leave china,vietnam,singapore,malaysia etc to come here??

pls read before getting overtly hopeful

Things you must know about the Land Acquisition Bill | Business Standard

as i said i know the bill..and dont expect it to be implemented in spirt word to word.there are always short cuts.there are many things which are to be clarified.and the bill itself is pending so hold on to ur horses.this might be just an exhibition by the congress to impress people..im not hopefull im just a realist..and im tryn to explain to whats whats happening on the ground.there are many acts made by the parliament now do u think every one of them is functioning perfectly??

and i doubt it would ever pass..u've did not read my statement carefully in ur enthusiasm.points i tried to make

1.these bills are just passed to impress people.they are pending in parliament for a long time.people like u know it from papers and wonder suddenly where did they come from.u know what happened to lokpal bill.


2.in order to pass the bill the govt must need the cooperation of opposition also as it has to ba passed in upper house also before sending to the presidents assent.and if it did not pass which i think the mose probable case would be then the congress would blame the bjp for stopping the bill and use it in elections anyway

3.even if the bill get passed u know only a few things which govt wants u to know.u havent read the entire bill.there are loopholes but they are intelligently concealed to fool general public like you..it has a clause where the govt can acquire a land for what ever the purpose it deemed to be fit and pay the compensation what ever it feels to be justified.no questiones asked not even can be appealed in courts

meaning:govt can take away ur land and give you a fraction of a market price and then sell it to the industries in the name of "development" and the aggravated can not approach the court.all the things u mentiond above are only when a private enterprise takes away ur land.but govt can act as a broker.

4.ur thinking 4 times the market rate is too much..and so many others too..but what is a market value ??its the value of the land which is registerd "legally" during the transaction.
what i mean to say is if at a location a sqfeet of land is 12000 rupees not many would register that rate many would register for 2000 rupees and remaining through blackmoney or illegal transaction.as i said the value of land would be fixed on the registered value which means the market value of the land is 2000 rupees but if its an urban area u will be paid only 4000 rupees for the land of 12000 rupees!!!who gains the advantage here???under normal circumstances the company should pay 12000 rupess but now it can acquire the land at 4000 only...


i hope u understand what im trying to explain.dont get carried away by what u see in news papers.i dont mistake u many innocent people get carried away by govt ads and arnab gosami debates while the truth is entirely different.they will show u what they want u to see not what is happening...im happy to discuss with u this issue but as i said let the bill pass first and lets read the actual act and discuss not the news paper articles.

 

[he-man]

well if Mig-27 will retire by 2017 then Mig-21s will serve beyond 2017 till Rafale comes in good number say 2019-2020.

still my point remains

1)rafale will be produced at rate of 11-12 per year and starting 2017(best case scenario) we will have only 36 rafale till 2019

2)Considering lca gets foc in late 2014 and series production bedins in 2015..........HAL will be able to manufacture only mk1 till 2019 ie 40 aircrafts(and i am being hoeful here)

3)We have no idea about mk-2 but lets assume we get 40 odd mk-2 till 2019(its not gonna happen actually)

4)su-30 will be fully produced by then (272 vs 180 now)
Now we will have 226 odd new aircrafts in 2019 and we retire 350

so we will still be short of 100 from our current level

OP itself is a BS and we are just continuing that. Lols

this mig-29 analysis was the biggest bullshit i ever read

and to think of it that guy is getting paid for that

@kaykay So what is this thread really about? Lots of opinions, lots of facts presented out of context albeit correct facts in the main. Chal kya raha hai yahaan?

bhai its the he-man effect to be sure

pls read post no 5 btw

 

[neehar]

Dosen't really matter.......the fact is we have fucked ourselves u by not signing deal in 2011 or 2012

As for russian stuff,u get what u pay............u cannot expect a spaceship in 40 million dollars and remember the delays were for vikramaditya only and let me explain the reason to u


1)Indian navy had decided to buy the ship in 1998 or early 2000(pls check dates,could be wrong)

2)We wanted the cheapest retrofitso instead of allocating work to the shipyard with some experience in building large ships we decided to hold an auction

3)In that auction sevmash shipyard quoted the least amount,about 900 million dollars

4)Now focus here.............................sevmash shipyard had no prior experience in building large surface ships,let alone an aircraft carrier!!

5)Sevmash shipyard specialises in submarine manufacture,,,u are free to search


Now tell me who fucked up??

here

JSCo «PO «Sevmash»
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmash(look at the list of what they have constructed so far)

i agree with ur statement my point is it must also be reliable.even if its cheap but not reliable then we'll be fucked up.we can afford to manage costly and reliable rather than cheap and unreliable partner.the burden in the second case would be much worse

 

[he-man]

as i said i know the bill..and dont expect it to be implemented in spirt word to word.there are always short cuts.there are many things which are to be clarified.and the bill itself is pending so hold on to ur horses.this might be just an exhibition by the congress to impress people..im not hopefull im just a realist..and im tryn to explain to whats whats happening on the ground.there are many acts made by the parliament now do u think every one of them is functioning perfectly??

and i doubt it would ever pass..u've did not read my statement carefully in ur enthusiasm.points i tried to make

1.these bills are just passed to impress people.they are pending in parliament for a long time.people like u know it from papers and wonder suddenly where did they come from.u know what happened to lokpal bill.


2.in order to pass the bill the govt must need the cooperation of opposition also as it has to ba passed in upper house also before sending to the presidents assent.and if it did not pass which i think the mose probable case would be then the congress would blame the bjp for stopping the bill and use it in elections anyway

3.even if the bill get passed u know only a few things which govt wants u to know.u havent read the entire bill.there are loopholes but they are intelligently concealed to fool general public like you..it has a clause where the govt can acquire a land for what ever the purpose it deemed to be fit and pay the compensation what ever it feels to be justified.no questiones asked not even can be appealed in courts

meaning:govt can take away ur land and give you a fraction of a market price and then sell it to the industries in the name of "development" and the aggravated can not approach the court.all the things u mentiond above are only when a private enterprise takes away ur land.but govt can act as a broker.

4.ur thinking 4 times the market rate is too much..and so many others too..but what is a market value ??its the value of the land which is registerd "legally" during the transaction.
what i mean to say is if at a location a sqfeet of land is 12000 rupees not many would register that rate many would register for 2000 rupees and remaining through blackmoney or illegal transaction.as i said the value of land would be fixed on the registered value which means the market value of the land is 2000 rupees but if its an urban area u will be paid only 4000 rupees for the land of 12000 rupees!!!who gains the advantage here???under normal circumstances the company should pay 12000 rupess but now it can acquire the land at 4000 only...


i hope u understand what im trying to explain.dont get carried away by what u see in news papers.i dont mistake u many innocent people get carried away by govt ads and arnab gosami debates while the truth is entirely different.they will show u what they want u to see not what is happening...im happy to discuss with u this issue but as i said let the bill pass first and lets read the actual act and discuss not the news paper articles.

i am a newspaper reader and seldom hear fools like goswami

the point is it will weaken the investor confidence

and lastly i am not at all innocent

 

[neehar]

i am a newspaper reader and seldom hear fools like goswami

the point is it will weaken the investor confidence

and lastly i am not at all innocent

why would investor confidence be lost when he will gain from it??did u read my post???people like u think that it would bring losses to investor while the truth is other way round..as i said lets wait till the bill becomes and act.the actual shape might be completely different to what we're discussing now.yes with these kinda populist schemes the market sentiments might hurt but thats temporary and bound to happen in any case..market sentiments change when new rbi gov takes the charge,market sentiments change when u.s president speaks.market sentiments change when theres strike of gold workers in south africa it doesnt always donot have to do with ur parliament.and thats just temporary..as said things will bounce back.

 

[he-man]

i agree with ur statement my point is it must also be reliable.even if its cheap but not reliable then we'll be fucked up.we can afford to manage costly and reliable rather than cheap and unreliable partner.the burden in the second case would be much worse

1)Its not the 90's anymore yaar

2)Most of the crashes of mig-21 are attributed to poor maintainance by HAL and lack of spare parts,,,,heck russians discontinued mig-21 like 10-15 years ago

3)Our armed forces have fucked up a lot of times like government and delay in signing this deal is one such instance