Each MiG-35 to cost only $30 mil for the Russians. Is the IAF listening?

[kaykay]

still my point remains

1)rafale will be produced at rate of 11-12 per year and starting 2017(best case scenario) we will have only 36 rafale till 2019

2)Considering lca gets foc in late 2014 and series production bedins in 2015..........HAL will be able to manufacture only mk1 till 2019 ie 40 aircrafts(and i am being hoeful here)

3)We have no idea about mk-2 but lets assume we get 40 odd mk-2 till 2019(its not gonna happen actually)

4)su-30 will be fully produced by then (272 vs 180 now)
Now we will have 226 odd new aircrafts in 2019 and we retire 350

so we will still be short of 100 from our current level

We will still have shortage of 230 aircrafts or



this mig-29 analysis was the biggest bullshit i ever read

and to think of it that guy is getting paid for that

let me play devil's advocate.
First of all we'll get 2 sqadrons of Rafale in 36 months after we sign the deal and 12-13/year after that. That makes atleast 60-72 Rafales by 2019-2020 if we seal the deal by next year. Secodly only 6-8 squadrons of mig-21 is in active service( around 150 aircrafts) and around further 100 are retired but in reserve(wiki have included them too). Again around 80 mig-27s are in active service. Now replace these 150+80 aircrafts with 100+60-72 mki+ rafales. I guess though number will shrink a bit but capabilities will be increased by many folds.

 

[he-man]

let me play devil's advocate.
First of all we'll get 2 sqadrons of Rafale in 36 months after we sign the deal and 12-13/year after that. That makes atleast 60-72 Rafales by 2019-2020 if we seal the deal by next year. Secodly only 6-8 squadrons of mig-21 is in active service( around 150 aircrafts) and around further 100 are retired but in reserve(wiki have included them too). Again around 80 mig-27s are in active service. Now replace these 150+80 aircrafts with 100+60-72 mki+ rafales. I guess though number will shrink a bit but capabilities will be increased by many folds.

Then u have to take into consideration the fact that we currently have only 33 operational squadrons and not 39 which i assumed in the 350 figure!!

 

[neehar]

1)Its not the 90's anymore yaar

2)Most of the crashes of mig-21 are attributed to poor maintainance by HAL and lack of spare parts,,,,heck russians discontinued mig-21 like 10-15 years ago

3)Our armed forces have fucked up a lot of times like government and delay in signing this deal is one such instance

of course defence acquisition plan must be revised and the red tapism must be reduced.but as i said the bureaucrats are over cautious with the size of the deal and the sensitive timing during which the defence acquisitions are tainted with corruption.we all know the story of former airforce chief who is arrested.they dont want this to be repeated and save their heads especially next year being an election year.

 

[kaykay]

Then u have to take into consideration the fact that we currently have only 33 operational squadrons and not 39 which i assumed in the 350 figure!!

True that. Squadron no. Will only increase after 2019-20 with induction of more rafales+ more tejas and ultimately FGFA and probably 64 more Rafale if need arise.
PS: I didn't consider 40+ Tejas in previous post, so add them too.

 

[he-man]

why would investor confidence be lost when he will gain from it??did u read my post???people like u think that it would bring losses to investor while the truth is other way round..as i said lets wait till the bill becomes and act.the actual shape might be completely different to what we're discussing now.yes with these kinda populist schemes the market sentiments might hurt but thats temporary and bound to happen in any case..market sentiments change when new rbi gov takes the charge,market sentiments change when u.s president speaks.market sentiments change when theres strike of gold workers in south africa it doesnt always donot have to do with ur parliament.and thats just temporary..as said things will bounce back.

1)how can u buy land at such price

2)who pays for rehabilitation?

3)its imossible to convince 80% of people....................in tribal areas it will make us imossible to mine anything

thats why

 

[he-man]

let me play devil's advocate.
First of all we'll get 2 sqadrons of Rafale in 36 months after we sign the deal and 12-13/year after that. That makes atleast 60-72 Rafales by 2019-2020 if we seal the deal by next year. Secodly only 6-8 squadrons of mig-21 is in active service( around 150 aircrafts) and around further 100 are retired but in reserve(wiki have included them too). Again around 80 mig-27s are in active service. Now replace these 150+80 aircrafts with 100+60-72 mki+ rafales. I guess though number will shrink a bit but capabilities will be increased by many folds.

The first rafale will start rollout after 3 years of contract signing dude.................so my numbers are right

source

India to ink $11 billion MMRCA deal with Rafale by next month: Indian Air Force official - Economic Times

True that. Squadron no. Will only increase after 2019-20 with induction of more rafales+ more tejas and ultimately FGFA and probably 64 more Rafale if need arise.
PS: I didn't consider 40+ Tejas in previous post, so add them too.

18 RAFALE WOULD NOT BE DELIVERED WITHIN 3 YEARS...........................the delivery starts after 3 years

And if u are right,source pls

another source

"Under the MMRCA project, the first 18 jets will come in "fly-away condition" from France from mid-2015 onwards, while the rest 108 fighters will later be manufactured in India over six years after a transfer of technology (ToT) to Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL)"

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...12278_1_rafale-mmrca-project-french-air-force

now u have to reduce 36 rafale....in 2019

 

[neehar]

1)how can u buy land at such price

2)who pays for rehabilitation?

3)its imossible to convince 80% of people....................in tribal areas it will make us imossible to mine anything

thats why

did u read my post?u said ur not innocnet and u can even figure out what i was trying to say.
1. this bill wont be applied to govt.if govt wants to take ur land it can take it at what ever reason it may seemed to be fit for at what ever price it want to pay.govt can sell this land to any private enterprise with out any questions
2. with this bill a costly land can be taken away cheaply in case of a private enterprise.read #39, 4th point how
govt want people to believe that its doing all good with this bill while it is actually in favour of corporates which many like u fail to recognize.

 

[he-man]

did u read my post?u said ur not innocnet and u can even figure out what i was trying to say.
1. this bill wont be applied to govt.if govt wants to take ur land it can take it at what ever reason it may seemed to be fit for at what ever price it want to pay.govt can sell this land to any private enterprise with out any questions
2. with this bill a costly land can be taken away cheaply in case of a private enterprise.read #39, 4th point how
govt want people to believe that its doing all good with this bill while it is actually in favour of corporates which many like u fail to recognize.

Yes..........but ultimately it will be a loss to govt and will trickle down

And biggest worry is 80% approval!!!

tribals will never allow that,,,,so coal mining etc will be hampered

 

[he-man]

wtf is this??

who mixed 2 very diff threads?

 

[kaykay]

The first rafale will start rollout after 3 years of contract signing dude.................so my numbers are right

source

India to ink $11 billion MMRCA deal with Rafale by next month: Indian Air Force official - Economic Times



18 RAFALE WOULD NOT BE DELIVERED WITHIN 3 YEARS...........................the delivery starts after 3 years

And if u are right,source pls

another source

"Under the MMRCA project, the first 18 jets will come in "fly-away condition" from France from mid-2015 onwards, while the rest 108 fighters will later be manufactured in India over six years after a transfer of technology (ToT) to Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL)"

French jet Rafale bags $20bn IAF fighter order; India 'briefs' losing European countries - Times Of India

now u have to reduce 36 rafale....in 2019

I think its a part of the deal that first 18 aircrafts will come in fly away condition made in france itself after 36 months.

www.idp.justthe80.com/air-force-projects/fighters/mmrca

secondly if reduce 36 rafale then add 40 Tejas in that fig. More or less same. Lols

 

[neehar]

Yes..........but ultimately it will be a loss to govt and will trickle down

And biggest worry is 80% approval!!!

tribals will never allow that,,,,so coal mining etc will be hampered

80% can be fabricated.as i said not act is practised in true spirit.why would govt loose if investments and jobs are coming .i knw ur talking about vedanta and posco there has to be a solution derived regarding tribals..there different people from u and me.first they must be integrated to society.they cant live if u bring them to a town and provide them with a house and give some money and think that they'll be happy ever after.they are alienated from society..and govt has failed to integrate them to society..u cant forcefully displace them...all those bauxite ores are gonna stay there no matter what happens and no body is gonna rob them from u...in the mean time those tribals can be integrated with society.today if 40,000 crores gone away from indis.tomorrow the same minerals cost 100,000 crores..value only increses and so does the investments which would come in future.so i suggest dont worry about all those things much...this is not the right thread not this is the right time to discuss the land bills.as i said we'll discuss all these things after the bill was passed

 

[he-man]

80% can be fabricated.as i said not act is practised in true spirit.why would govt loose if investments and jobs are coming .i knw ur talking about vedanta and posco there has to be a solution derived regarding tribals..there different people from u and me.first they must be integrated to society.they cant live if u bring them to a town and provide them with a house and give some money and think that they'll be happy ever after.they are alienated from society..and govt has failed to integrate them to society..u cant forcefully displace them...all those bauxite ores are gonna stay there no matter what happens and no body is gonna rob them from u...in the mean time those tribals can be integrated with society.today if 40,000 crores gone away from indis.tomorrow the same minerals cost 100,000 crores..value only increses and so does the investments which would come in future.so i suggest dont worry about all those things much...this is not the right thread not this is the right time to discuss the land bills.as i said we'll discuss all these things after the bill was passed

See i don't give a damn on tribal basics

Its good for them too if industry comes up

80% CANNOT be diluted,,,,,we have activists to look into that and supreme court recently mandated gram sabhas to decide whether they want to give land rich in minerals

I am sorry but this policy will **** us in coming decades alltogether

I think its a part of the deal that first 18 aircrafts will come in fly away condition made in france itself after 36 months.

www.idp.justthe80.com/air-force-projects/fighters/mmrca

secondly if reduce 36 rafale then add 40 Tejas in that fig. More or less same. Lols

1)Yaar rafale begins to fly out after 3 years,,,,,not 18 are delivered within 3 years,read my links
And considering 12 per year it translates to 36 in 2019

2)In my analysis i have considered 272 mki,,80 lca(mk1 and 2) so why should i add 40 more??

my maths was 350-216=134



And i have added 80 lca in next 6 years!!!

do u think thats actually possible??

 

[PoKeMon]

we are already too late man
1)in 2018 approx 350 aircrafts would beretired(mig-21 and mig-27)

2)even if we sign contract now the rafales will start rollout in late 2016 to early 2017

You are getting too much into numbers.

Let me ask you very basic question --

If we retire 2 squads of Mig 21 and induct 1 squad of rafale, did we become stronger or weaker?

 

[he-man]

You are getting too much into numbers.

Let me ask you very basic question --

If we retire 2 squads of Mig 21 and induct 1 squad of rafale, did we become stronger or weaker?

They have diff role...........point defence vs multirole

Yes i know rafale is way good but number matter and we will fall to like 30 squadrons at least in 2019!!

Its not enough for china,forget about 2 front war

You are getting too much into numbers.

Let me ask you very basic question --

If we retire 2 squads of Mig 21 and induct 1 squad of rafale, did we become stronger or weaker?

pls read and comment on post 117

 

[kaykay]

See i don't give a damn on tribal basics

Its good for them too if industry comes up

80% CANNOT be diluted,,,,,we have activists to look into that and supreme court recently mandated gram sabhas to decide whether they want to give land rich in minerals

I am sorry but this policy will **** us in coming decades alltogether



1)Yaar rafale begins to fly out after 3 years,,,,,not 18 are delivered within 3 years,read my links
And considering 12 per year it translates to 36 in 2019

2)In my analysis i have considered 272 mki,,80 lca(mk1 and 2) so why should i add 40 more??

my maths was 350-216=134



And i have added 80 lca in next 6 years!!!

do u think thats actually possible??

But again I am asking you, how come 350 figure?? Are you counting additional migs too?? Reality is now only 33-34 squadrons are active and other mig squadrons are just kept as reserve. And I am saying again that even in 2019-20 situation would be more or less same means 33-34 active squadrons.