Each MiG-35 to cost only $30 mil for the Russians. Is the IAF listening?

[he-man]

I honestly think it is Rafale or nothing.ie if the Rafale deal falls through the IAF will just go all in on the LCA and AMCA maybe even increase the MKI and FGFA orders a bit. The only other viable option is the EFT being the L2 bidder but I don't think this means much. The other 4 contenders are a no-go for sure- they were all found to be technically deficent by the IAF.

If the EFT really is an option then the saga will contine for another 3-4 years unfortunelty. But the Rafale deal appears to be coming to a end now so let's pray!!

Eft should not be the option at all
As for AMCA..............its gone for another 5-6 years minimum,,,,until HAL starts producing mk2 amca should not be encouraged

 

[vicky sen]

go for rafale of course....

In you most wisest of suggestions, what would be an "optimal" solution for India? Please, do enlighten us.......

go for rafale of course....

 

[AMCA]

Problem---We need an omnirole aircraft and su-30,mig-29,lca and pakfa are none capable enough in air to ground mode and the main purpose of rafale was to replace mig-27 and jaguars
5)

You must be joking right??

What made you think that the above said fighters are not capable of an air to ground operation? they have proved it time and again in all the live fire exercises. Hell even Mig 21's have proven their Air to ground capabilities.

You cannot expect a fighter jet to have a full fledged air to ground profile. You have strike formations in Ariel warfare, wherein a mix of varied class of aircraft are used.

In today's world, its not viable to have an omni role aircraft with a core investment on "Air to Ground" unless otherwise their country demands or defines a complete logic/doctrine to support their interest.

 

[he-man]

You must be joking right??

What made you think that the above said fighters are not capable of an air to ground operation? they have proved it time and again in all the live fire exercises. Hell even Mig 21's have proven their Air to ground capabilities.

You cannot expect a fighter jet to have a full fledged air to ground profile. You have strike formations in Ariel warfare, wherein a mix of varied class of aircraft are used.

In today's world, its not viable to have an omni role aircraft with a core investment on "Air to Ground" unless otherwise their country demands or defines a complete logic/doctrine to support their interest.

compared to rafale.........they are not

everything is relative man..........both su-30 and mig-29 are air superiority fighters and so if ef typhoon

 

[AMCA]

1)Tejas has design limitations that cannot be undone with upgrades

Care to explain the design limitations??

2)its a small single engined fighter with limited ordnance carrying ability

Its a Point defence fighter, and when comparing it with others in its class, it certainly out performs the contemporary fighters.

3)mirage 2000 after upgrades are way way better than tejas mk1

It is not the same class.. Even though, out of my sheer curiosity, may I know in what areas does the Mirage outperform LCA?

4)we have still no prototype aesa radar for mk2,,,,hell we haven't even developed a slotted array

We have. I can even present relevant articles and even Patents filed by DRDO/CABS to support my claim.

5)better choice if rafale deal is cancelled would be su-35 or upgraded mig-35............only if we back off due to money

I personally favor Russian Goodies, but may the best win the deal.

compared to rafale.........they are not

everything is relative man..........both su-30 and mig-29 are air superiority fighters and so if ef typhoon

You dont choose an aircraft depending on how capable it is to carry out every role, but how efficient it is to execute it. Rafale might be good at what you are trying to prove here but certainly the aircrafts in our arsenal can deal with the threat environment we are in.

 

[he-man]

Care to explain the design limitations??



Its a Point defence fighter, and when comparing it with others in its class, it certainly out performs the contemporary fighters.



It is not the same class.. Even though, out of my sheer curiosity, may I know in what areas does the Mirage outperform LCA?



We have. I can even present relevant articles and even Patents filed by DRDO/CABS to support my claim.



I personally favor Russian Goodies, but may the best win the deal.

1)Tailless delta wing,,,obsolete design now..........causes considerable drag limiting performance(like mirage 2000)
The intakes of mk1 are small and less air goes to engine,,will be corrected for mk2

2)It dosen't outperform anything as it is still 1 year atleast away from foc and considering IAF will order only 40 mk-1 is a testimony that they are not happy

3)Its superior in max speed(mach 2.2 vs 1.8),,climb rate,,has more hardpoints(9 vs8),,,can carry more load(6300 kg vs 4000kg)
higher thrust engine(95kn vs 85 kn)

I will have to make detailed study of electronics though and will come back to u later

4)Pls do provide the source for aerial borne x-band aesa??i don't think we can make it without jv

 

[kaykay]

You must be joking right??

What made you think that the above said fighters are not capable of an air to ground operation? they have proved it time and again in all the live fire exercises. Hell even Mig 21's have proven their Air to ground capabilities.

You cannot expect a fighter jet to have a full fledged air to ground profile. You have strike formations in Ariel warfare, wherein a mix of varied class of aircraft are used.

In today's world, its not viable to have an omni role aircraft with a core investment on "Air to Ground" unless otherwise their country demands or defines a complete logic/doctrine to support their interest.

But dude what he is saying is partially correct. If you consider Air to Air, CAS, SEAD, Deep Strike or even Maritime missions then no one can match Rafale as Rafale can do all very effectively (may be MKI has a upper hand in Air superiority role but not in others. Correct me If I am wrong).

 

[he-man]

But dude what he is saying is partially correct. If you consider Air to Air, CAS, SEAD, Deep Strike or even Maritime missions then no one can match Rafale as Rafale can do all very effectively (may be MKI has a upper hand in Air superiority role but not in others. Correct me If I am wrong).

u are right dude and after rbe2aa aesa..........rafale has surged ahead of others

even in air to air

1)mki has huge rcs of 12-20m2
2)radar with range of 140-160 km for 5m2 target only
3)weaker irst compared to rafale
4)nothing like spectra

Care to explain the design limitations??



Its a Point defence fighter, and when comparing it with others in its class, it certainly out performs the contemporary fighters.



It is not the same class.. Even though, out of my sheer curiosity, may I know in what areas does the Mirage outperform LCA?



We have. I can even present relevant articles and even Patents filed by DRDO/CABS to support my claim.



I personally favor Russian Goodies, but may the best win the deal.



You dont choose an aircraft depending on how capable it is to carry out every role, but how efficient it is to execute it. Rafale might be good at what you are trying to prove here but certainly the aircrafts in our arsenal can deal with the threat environment we are in.

I don't even want rafale due to cost factor

but ragardless analysis should be objective and unbiased

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

This article is bullshit

1)mig-29smt maybe mig on steroids but has nothing compared to rafale

2)Zhuk-me is not some highly advanced radar claimed in the post...it is a simple slotted array with modest detection range of 120 km for 5m2 target,,,,compared to rafale's RBE2AA Aesa

3)It has no passive warning system like spectra on rafale

4)It just has a basic irst,OLS-UM with max range of 45 km compared to rafale's irst with 140 plus km range

5)Author says that mirage 2000 upgrade will have many things similar to rafale...........ya right

6)mig-29k and mig-29smt will have 9 hard points and not 6

7)The rwr and maws of mig-29 could be described in one word only..........average


Points i agree with

1)Rafale is too costly
2)Without a tot there is no value in getting rafale
3)we are already very late for contract
4)french are bargaining hard and probably don't want to give key technologies
5)In the current scene when we are going for pakfa and lca mk1 and mk2...............this may not be the best time to splurge so much

Problem---We need an omnirole aircraft and su-30,mig-29,lca and pakfa are none capable enough in air to ground mode and the main purpose of rafale was to replace mig-27 and jaguars

5)

Absolutely top post,sums up both pros and cons.

 

[BLING]

But not sure which versions they have.
other than R73e with 30km range(isn't it the M1 standard) with infrared guidance there is no document or news available about the existence of a radar guided version in iaf.

I guess r73e is ir version.
M1 and M2 are different improvements on basic R73.

what is radar guided version is called ?

M1 and M2 both are Infra homing !

 

[AUz]

Tejas MK 1 will be delivered by mid 2014 (official) Tejas MK 2 must be as good as Rafale ! with Aesa radar and other upgrades . We can buy maximum 4 SQ of rafale . than 183 . When we have Tejas , Super Sukoi upgrades and FGFA going on !

A sh!tty nation building a sh!tty plane (teja) with imported engines, radar, avionics etc for last 2 decades and still the sh!tty tejas remain still a failure--just like india as a nation lol--and now you are dreaming of MK2 being equal to Rafael? LOL! only indians can be that delusional...

indians are becoming a joke!

Rafael deal isn't finalize yet and its the end of 2013!!!!! india will probably get its first rafael in 2025 and by then, it would have been useless pretty much..

shoo sad...

 

[kaykay]

Guys just report the trolls.

 

[HariPrasad]

Tejas fighter is better multirole fighter than Air to air role . Tejas MK 2 will be a ripoff ! We must go for maximum upgrade for tejas MK2 and mass produce it ! 60 Rafale will be more than enough with mirrage 2000 (UPG) Jag(UPG) Tejas MK 2

I did . Thnk u

In this case i like IAF to go for EF than Rafale as they said they can deliver 1st batch in few moths of contract. EF is best of all 4+ gen fighter till date.

Guys, euro fighter has offered partnership to India.

 

[HariPrasad]

I think 2015 is still a bit early for the PAK FA it will more likely come into service between 2017-2018 time period main reason being that there is still a lot of work to be done regarding the engine and weapon package.

Secondly there had been a huge reduction in the the strength of the Air Force. I highly doubt the Russian would just allow us to build the PAK FA in India, and they would most likely first fill their own orders before they start to think about India. So in that sense for now Rafale and the Super Su 30MKI would have to do the job. Plus there is also the huge issue of price, since we don't what the future cost of the PAK FA or FGFA will be.

Disagree. we are partners in PAKFA. It was developed out of our Money. So no question of disallowing us to produce.

Secondly Russia never inducts any weapons in huge No. They have just order 30 Su30 (Like MKI). So Russia inducting Huge no of PAKFA in first go is out of question. PAKFA shall be available at almost same price as Rafale. So now we have to choose between PAKFA and Rafale.

 

[madmusti]

There are many Questions about this ,but there is a Truth that Rafale and Eurofighter was developed because the Europe needs something like a MiG-29 where in while MiG has created this :

This comes after MiG-29 !!!