Each MiG-35 to cost only $30 mil for the Russians. Is the IAF listening?

[Abingdonboy]

We can buy su-35 but just think, when china has access to all russians technologies. Su-35 ll not give much edge.
30MKI is good because of Israel and france packages. But still in the AESA world ,we nedd to upgrade all mki plus have to find out its RCS issue.

What are you talking about "china haws access to a the Russian" tech?? Since when? The Su-35 deal will never materialise and apart from that they have some SU-30MK2s and 1980s vintage Su-33s for reverse-engineering purposes.


cutting-edge Russian avionics/sensors/electrioncs have been kept from the Chinese.

 

[IndoUS]

i am not good at comparing the aircrafts but even if we sign the deal the first aircraft we will get will be around 2016. And i feel russia is inducting PAK FA by 2015. why can be also induct the same varients as russia is doing instead of the french aircraft and by 2020 or 22 we can induct Indian varient (FGFA).as far as i know both are multorole a/c.

I have no idea about aircrafts and there roles so asked.can someone shed somelight.

I think 2015 is still a bit early for the PAK FA it will more likely come into service between 2017-2018 time period main reason being that there is still a lot of work to be done regarding the engine and weapon package.

Secondly there had been a huge reduction in the the strength of the Air Force. I highly doubt the Russian would just allow us to build the PAK FA in India, and they would most likely first fill their own orders before they start to think about India. So in that sense for now Rafale and the Super Su 30MKI would have to do the job. Plus there is also the huge issue of price, since we don't what the future cost of the PAK FA or FGFA will be.

 

[he-man]

IAF should seal the deal with Dassault only if they are willing to give crucial tots as promised. Secondly without rafale tots, Tejas mk2 will just end up like Tejas mk1 and besides it would help in our future projects too say in AMCA.

Sadly u are wrong on the part of mk2
Tot or not............nothing on rafale will find a way onto mk2

What are you talking about "china haws access to a the Russian" tech?? Since when? The Su-35 deal will never materialise and apart from that they have some SU-30MK2s and 1980s vintage Su-33s for reverse-engineering purposes.


cutting-edge Russian avionics/sensors/electrioncs have been kept from the Chinese.

Actually its the russians who are pitching 48 su-35 to china not the other way around...............china has rejected su-35 as it feels confident in j-20 and j-31

 

[Abingdonboy]

Actually its the russians who are pitching 48 su-35 to china not the other way around...............china has rejected su-35 as it feels confident in j-20 and j-31

Well this entire deal has been shrouded in secrecy and uncertainty so I don't think you can say it was defineitvely the Russians chasin the Chinese.

 

[he-man]

I think 2015 is still a bit early for the PAK FA it will more likely come into service between 2017-2018 time period main reason being that there is still a lot of work to be done regarding the engine and weapon package.

Secondly there had been a huge reduction in the the strength of the Air Force. I highly doubt the Russian would just allow us to build the PAK FA in India, and they would most likely first fill their own orders before they start to think about India. So in that sense for now Rafale and the Super Su 30MKI would have to do the job. Plus there is also the huge issue of price, since we don't what the future cost of the PAK FA or FGFA will be.

Actually IAF specifically wants pakfa with stage 2 engine,,,that would come around 2020.But if u are citing time as the constraint for pakfa then u should know that rafale deliveries start 3 years after signing of the contract,,,,so we are already pretty late.

Well this entire deal has been shrouded in secrecy and uncertainty so I don't think you can say it was defineitvely the Russians chasin the Chinese.

I am 100 percent sure man..........another piece of information

Russians actually offered pakfa designs to china in early 2000's for a JV,,,,it was when chinese rejected that they came to india!!The fact remains that if china had agreed for a jv,russians would have got many times more money to put than its getting now.No one can confirm these things though unfortunately

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

IAF has both . With infrared homing

But not sure which versions they have.
other than R73e with 30km range(isn't it the M1 standard) with infrared guidance there is no document or news available about the existence of a radar guided version in iaf.

I guess r73e is ir version.
M1 and M2 are different improvements on basic R73.

what is radar guided version is called ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am 100 percent sure man..........another piece of information

Russians actually offered pakfa designs to china in early 2000's for a JV,,,,it was when chinese rejected that they came to india!!The fact remains that if china had agreed for a jv,russians would have got many times more money to put than its getting now.No one can confirm these things though unfortunately

I don't buy this bro. I've heard this but there is little evidence for this. The PAK-FA is going to be considerably more capable than the J-XXA series and the Chinese had enough money to fund both in parallel easily and if they were wanting to focus on their J-XX projects then if the Russians had offered participation in the PAK-FA project they surely would have jumped at the opportunity as the tech would transfer across to their domestic programs.

 

[he-man]

@BLING - LCA MK2 can not match Rafale. ASEA radar is still on paper, and it lack in hardpoint,avonic etc. But if we keep project on time then with future upgrade it can be a good plane. Read Sancho and rest senior posts in this threads. You ll come to know this.
But we can use this platform for AMCA.
But it all depend upon HAL ,DRDO. First we need to change this chai biscuht org.

Bhai meri posts hi bahut hain.........

 

[NotSoSuper]

I dont understand from where these other aircrafts suddenly comes into competition with rafael....the day when rafael was finalized these sources itself praising that rafael can do this and that.....i think if these sources can get something extraordinary beneficial they will even start bashing against india also

 

[he-man]

I think France is adamant that they won't part with their cutting edge techs as promised previously .What options do we have now?? French know that IAF's squadron strength is depleting fast.I think now it's time to rope in EF as well in talks.We have to go with either one of them.

Something is def fishy considering the delay.................french milked us good in mirage 2000 upgrade

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think France is adamant that they won't part with their cutting edge techs as promised previously .What options do we have now?? French know that IAF's squadron strength is depleting fast.I think now it's time to rope in EF as well in talks.We have to go with either one of them.

This is utter BS, utter BS. How did you get to these conclusions?


The Indian MMRCA deal is literally do or die for the Rafale now with the French govt cutting orders and the UAE turning away possibly. The Indian deal could very way hereof further export success in Malysia and Brazil. The French aren't foolish enough to be hedging of reneging on agreements.

 

[he-man]

I don't buy this bro. I've heard this but there is little evidence for this. The PAK-FA is going to be considerably more capable than the J-XXA series and the Chinese had enough money to fund both in parallel easily and if they were wanting to focus on their J-XX projects then if the Russians had offered participation in the PAK-FA project they surely would have jumped at the opportunity as the tech would transfer across to their domestic programs.

Disagree...........chinese will be second to only USA in the next 10 years where technology is concerned(barring a few things like engines) and bigger than USA in gdp terms

J-20 has superior stealth shaping than pakfa and i would hope we get better electronics.Radar and engine of pakfa will be definitely way superior than chinese!!

This is utter BS, utter BS. How did you get to these conclusions?


The Indian MMRCA deal is literally do or die for the Rafale now with the French govt cutting orders and the UAE turning away possibly. The Indian deal could very way hereof further export success in Malysia and Brazil. The French aren't foolish enough to be hedging of reneging on agreements.

If the deal is scrapped,,,its the end of production line for dassault.............but they are negotiating hard nonethelessas they know we need an omnirole plane urgently

 

[Abingdonboy]

Something is def fishy considering the delay.................french milked us good in mirage 2000 upgrade

"Fishy"- hardly. Just a series of very complex and intricate negotians this deal is almost unprecedented in this regard.

If the deal is scrapped,,,its the end of production line for dassault.............but they are negotiating hard nonethelessas they know we need an omnirole plane urgently

The French know India has other options, Dassualt really don't.

 

[he-man]

"Fishy"- hardly. Just a series of very complex and intricate negotians this deal is almost unprecedented in this regard.

this saga should end quickly..........whether we get rafale or something else...............just get something!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

this saga should end quickly..........whether we get rafale or something else...............just get something!!

I honestly think it is Rafale or nothing.ie if the Rafale deal falls through the IAF will just go all in on the LCA and AMCA maybe even increase the MKI and FGFA orders a bit. The only other viable option is the EFT being the L2 bidder but I don't think this means much. The other 4 contenders are a no-go for sure- they were all found to be technically deficent by the IAF.

If the EFT really is an option then the saga will contine for another 3-4 years unfortunelty. But the Rafale deal appears to be coming to a end now so let's pray!!