DSA 2018: Pakistan in ‘primary level’ talks with Malaysia on JF-17

[khanasifm]

https://amp.ft.com/content/8dbce0a0-3713-11e8-8b98-2f31af407cc8

 

[khanasifm]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/8dbce0a0-3713-11e8-8b98-2f31af407cc8



Pakistan shuns US for Chinese high-tech weapons
In a sign of the shifting balance of power, Islamabad now purchases much of its advanced military equipment from Beijing


April 18, 2018 4:00 am by Kiran Stacey in Islamabad
In the last few months of the Obama administration, the US state department made an announcement which caused a new breach in Washington’s tumultuous relationship with Pakistan.

John Kirby, then the department’s spokesman, said Congress had decided to approve the sale of eight fighter aircraft to Pakistan. However, he added that some senior members of Congress “have made clear that they object to using foreign military financing [a form of military aid to help countries buy US weapons] to support it”.

While the announcement garnered little attention in Washington, it was a much bigger deal in Pakistan: by withdrawing financing support, the US had in effect increased the price of the new F-16s from $270m to $700m, putting them out of Islamabad’s reach.



For Pakistan’s defence planners, the collaboration with China on defence technology is not only about equipping their own armed services. They are also hoping they can become a significant arms exporter and, in doing so, help to boost the country’s low foreign currency reserves.

Pakistani officials say that between 2014 and 2016 the country exported about $63m of weapons, but last year they announced an intention to increase that to $1bn a year. To do that, they say, they will focus on selling aircraft such as the JF-17, jointly made with the Chinese, to countries such as Egypt, Turkey and Nigeria. Farooq Hameed Khan, a commentator on security affairs, says: “Pakistan’s close collaboration with China has helped us build our quality of weapons. Gone are the days when Pakistan only produced small arms.”

Pakistan’s defence industry received a big boost in 2015 when China quietly signed an agreement with Myanmar to export at least 16 JF-17s. But the terms of that deal also showed why it will be difficult for Pakistan to increase its defence exports by the amount it is targeting. Officials say the $256m deal would have probably collapsed without China's offer of long-term credits to Myanmar — something Pakistan was not in a position to offer.

“China extended long-term credits which made this deal possible,” said one senior government official in Islamabad. “The weapons systems that we make have improved over time. But our economic realities are such that we can’t give loans to other countries if they want to buy our weapon systems.”

One western official says: “Even if you say your products are competitive, the challenges countries face are also huge. The international arms bazaar is not an easy place.” Farhan Bokhari

 

[帅的一匹]

We already know that but thank you... we also know that it is not easy to sell WEAPONS... a far more potent fighter jet, Grippen, is fighting hard with very little success...

Weapon sales relates to political influence.

 

[MastanKhan]

We already know that but thank you... we also know that it is not easy to sell WEAPONS... a far more potent fighter jet, Grippen, is fighting hard with very little success...

Hi,

The upkeep and maintenance is not in-expensive on this aircraft---.

Most of the JF17 customers would not be looking to buy the Grippen due to restriction on operation and available weapons----.

 

[Dreamer.]

Weapon sales relates to political influence.

Is the J-10 an option for malaysia? or is it not available for sale to them?
And how does the cost compare to JF-17?

 

[帅的一匹]

Is the J-10 an option for malaysia? or is it not available for sale to them?
And how does the cost compare to JF-17?

Brother, I don't know whether J10 is an option to Malaysia, definitely they are more interested in JF17.
The unit cost of JF17 is lower than J10, but the cost effective is very good. Basically you can think J10 as an enlarged Jf17 with more range/fuel, bigger engine. J10 is somehow better at high speed performance due to its delta wing.
For example, the price if J10c (if available) will be tagged at around 60 millions dollars, while JF17 III will be at 35 to 40 millions dollars.

 

[Maxpane]

Hope it will be done soon

 

[BRAVO_]

Malaysia has many options on table and one attractive offer has been made today by BAE systems

DSA 2018: BAE Systems looks to build Malaysian profile
BAE Systems is moving forward with several sales opportunities in Malaysia, headlined by the company’s continuing engagement in promoting the Eurofighter Typhoon for the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF).

Company officials told Jane’s at the Defence Services Asia (DSA) 2018 exhibition in Kuala Lumpur that while the Typhoon represents the biggest opportunity in the market, prospects in the land systems and naval domains are also being pursued by the company.

John Brosnan, BAE Systems’ managing director for Southeast Asia, explained that in addition to the Typhoon, which the company has been promoting to Malaysia for several years, the company is pursuing other air force and naval upgrade programmes in the market as well as emerging opportunities to supply artillery systems. Cyber defence is another area where BAE Systems is expanding its profile in the country.

BAE Systems’ Typhoon proposal is intended to meet a longstanding requirement in the RMAF to procure a multirole combat aircraft to replace its ageing fleet of MiG-29s, which were initially scheduled to retire in 2010.

Brosnan said BAE Systems is waiting for the general election in Malaysia, scheduled for May, and for the government to be settled before making a decision on the MRCA. The Typhoon is widely thought to be in pole position to meet the requirement alongside the Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft.

“The Typhoon offer we put on the table still stands, and this includes UK financing support and local partner support,” said Brosnan. “We have strong UK government support for this, and when we get through the election we will be looking to step up our efforts to engage with the [Malaysian] government on this programme.”
http://www.janes.com/article/79418/dsa-2018-bae-systems-looks-to-build-malaysian-profile

 

[帅的一匹]

In no way Malaysia will go for typhoon.

 

[khanasifm]

Brother, I don't know whether J10 is an option to Malaysia, definitely they are more interested in JF17.
The unit cost of JF17 is lower than J10, but the cost effective is very good. Basically you can think J10 as an enlarged Jf17 with more range/fuel, bigger engine. J10 is somehow better at high speed performance due to its delta wing.
For example, the price if J10c (if available) will be tagged at around 60 millions dollars, while JF17 III will be at 35 to 40 millions dollars.

J10 range is not very impressive per one of the interview of former paf chief and per that interview paf had requested enhancement

I think it may be reference to f-16 if ferry range is benchmark then jf and j-10 both has same ferry range of 3000 km vs 31-3200 km

Unless it stated wrong bottom line 30,000 lbs max weight and $20-25 million jf compared to 40-41000 lbs max weight and $40-60 million J-10 with max war load within plus minus 1000 kg difference j-10 war-load is 5-6000 kg range while jf is 43-4500 kg range

Nose or radar is also both Not much different plus minus 100 mm

Compared to say su or j-15/16 series which is 1000 plus mm dish

If someone is looking for number Or workhorse then jf is the plane 30-40
For Malaysia

If they want to stick to 8-12 like in the past than su and f-18 or typhoons may be the way forward

Jf has 600-800 mm size radar at one time in play from Italian Oem 2 version one 600 plus and another 800 plus mm radar dish
??

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/j-10/

 

[ziaulislam]

malaysia doesnt has the budget for any fighter ..so they switched to lease which meant most of the people walking away but that was before jf-17..its priced like lease aircraft..
only issue will be whther Malaysia wants chines equipment or not...
south east asia and china have complicated relationship

Analysts said Saab has offered to lease up to 24 Gripen combat aircraft together with two Erieye Airborne Early Warning (AEW) aircraft, similar to its deal with Thailand, with an option to buy when the RMAF has the allocation.


BAE Systems plc, Boeing Co and Saab AB are said to be part of a shortlist of five companies that have been identified by the government to be possible candidates for the RMAF Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) programme.

One of the two companies in the shortlist, Sukhoi Aviation Holding Co of Russia, has not indicated any interest while Dassault Aviation of France, the maker of the Rafale jet, has said it would not participate in any leasing programme.

After several deadline shifts for the procurement plan due to budget constraints, the RMAF is looking at the leasing option.

so basically it will be gripen and (if desired by Malaysia politically) a thunder competition
unless typhoon backers come up with a good deal

 

[帅的一匹]

malaysia doesnt has the budget for any fighter ..so they switched to lease which meant most of the people walking away but that was before jf-17..its priced like lease aircraft..
only issue will be whther Malaysia wants chines equipment or not...
south east asia and china have complicated relationship

Analysts said Saab has offered to lease up to 24 Gripen combat aircraft together with two Erieye Airborne Early Warning (AEW) aircraft, similar to its deal with Thailand, with an option to buy when the RMAF has the allocation.


BAE Systems plc, Boeing Co and Saab AB are said to be part of a shortlist of five companies that have been identified by the government to be possible candidates for the RMAF Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) programme.

One of the two companies in the shortlist, Sukhoi Aviation Holding Co of Russia, has not indicated any interest while Dassault Aviation of France, the maker of the Rafale jet, has said it would not participate in any leasing programme.

After several deadline shifts for the procurement plan due to budget constraints, the RMAF is looking at the leasing option.

so basically it will be gripen and (if desired by Malaysia politically) a thunder competition
unless typhoon backers come up with a good deal

Let's see what happens after election in Malaysia.

J10 range is not very impressive per one of the interview of former paf chief and per that interview paf had requested enhancement

I think it may be reference to f-16 if ferry range is benchmark then jf and j-10 both has same ferry range of 3000 km vs 31-3200 km

Unless it stated wrong bottom line 30,000 lbs max weight and $20-25 million jf compared to 40-41000 lbs max weight and $40-60 million J-10 with max war load within plus minus 1000 kg difference j-10 war-load is 5-6000 kg range while jf is 43-4500 kg range

Nose or radar is also both Not much different plus minus 100 mm

Compared to say su or j-15/16 series which is 1000 plus mm dish

If someone is looking for number Or workhorse then jf is the plane 30-40
For Malaysia

If they want to stick to 8-12 like in the past than su and f-18 or typhoons may be the way forward

Jf has 600-800 mm size radar at one time in play from Italian Oem 2 version one 600 plus and another 800 plus mm radar dish
??

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/j-10/

I don't think RMAF can afford J10c with 4000KM ferry range, unless we give them soft loan.

We are not interested to sell if they can't pay cash. JF17 is the only fighter fit in their bills.

RMAF want a cost-effective fighters to be inducted in numbers, few fancy Typhoons can't solve its problem.

Malaysia had begun to induct Chinese weapons since last few years, such as navy patrol ships/AR-3 long range multi-caliber rocket system / off shore surveillance radar. ... And it shall pave the way for JF17.

I hope JF17 will serve in RMAF.

Politically China needs Malaysia to be with us or at least being neutral. So China may offer a very attractive offer to Malaysia that they can't refuse.
i mean both China and Pakistan are trying to promoting Jf17 to RMAF.

If Malaysia can pay good price, Pakistan will fit in whatever western equipment they need on JF17. Still far cheaper than those western competitors.

 

[khanasifm]

Let's see what happens after election in Malaysia.


I don't think RMAF can afford J10c with 4000KM ferry range, unless we give them soft loan.

We are not interested to sell if they can't pay cash. JF17 is the only fighter fit in their bills.

RMAF want a cost-effective fighters to be inducted in numbers, few fancy Typhoons can't solve its problem.

Malaysia had begun to induct Chinese weapons since last few years, such as navy patrol ships/AR-3 long range multi-caliber rocket system / off shore surveillance radar. ... And it shall pave the way for JF17.

I hope JF17 will serve in RMAF.

Politically China needs Malaysia to be with us or at least being neutral. So China may offer a very attractive offer to Malaysia that they can't refuse.
i mean both China and Pakistan are trying to promoting Jf17 to RMAF.

If Malaysia can pay good price, Pakistan will fit in whatever western equipment they need on JF17. Still far cheaper than those western competitors.

Where is it stated 4000 km ferry range ??

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistani posters have a lack of learning ability---.

The ferry range of a fighter aircraft is least important factor---it is the combat radius that determines the ability of a fighter / strike aircraft---.

 

[帅的一匹]

Where is it stated 4000 km ferry range ??

Carrying three external fuel tanks.

Hi,

Pakistani posters are still not intelligent enough to understand---or have a lack of learning ability---.

The ferry range of a fighter aircraft is least important factor---it is the combat radius that determines the ability of a fighter / strike aircraft---.

The combat radius of J10c is around 1250KM without external fuel tank.