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Don’t let 26/11 bog down talks: Pakistan to India

Well, Indian insist so much of Mumbai attack and plus even no ready to cooperate with Pakistani judicial commission then why talk ?. If that's the attitude ,then Pak govt might raise Indian intervention in Banlgadash and hand over the or punish those who were involve in Bangla insurgency or occupation of Siachin, when Pakistan was busy in Afghan and rest of world were busy in Afghan war and Indian sneak in,

Actually, your 93,000 PoWs were to be tried for War Crimes through a tribunal a la Nuremberg. The Bangladeshi citizens were baying for the blood of Pakistani soldiers and the Indian soldiers were protecting the Pakistani soldiers. The Americans bailed you out of the War Crimes Tribunal.
 
exactly same problem happened in Bangladesh,Baluchistan,Siachin..its Indian govt involve everywhere....very few people knows, even RAW trained MQM street fighters during 80s.

and you are one of those gems who know it.:taz:
so why did RAW spare you to monger this all on forums?:flame:
 
26/11 should ot be brought into conversation

26/11 was not Pakistan's fualt it was Pakistani Terrorist fualt which Pakistan is combating at the moment. If India wishes to stop another 26/11 which can easily happen again. it should 1st train local forces better (which they are doing) and two insist Pakistan in the fight againist terror.
Both the Pakistanis and Indians now know that each other are not enemies, so there is NO THREAT amougst ourselves. The Kashmir issue needs to be solved by 4 groups, Pakistan, India, Kashmir and China, all must come to the table at the same time and discuss the best thing for the region. SIMPILICITY is the way you BLUID bridges.
 
26/11 should ot be brought into conversation

26/11 was not Pakistan's fualt it was Pakistani Terrorist fualt which Pakistan is combating at the moment. If India wishes to stop another 26/11 which can easily happen again. it should 1st train local forces better (which they are doing) and two insist Pakistan in the fight againist terror.
Both the Pakistanis and Indians now know that each other are not enemies, so there is NO THREAT amougst ourselves. The Kashmir issue needs to be solved by 4 groups, Pakistan, India, Kashmir and China, all must come to the table at the same time and discuss the best thing for the region. SIMPILICITY is the way you BLUID bridges.

Noble, well meaning thoughts. But even most of the educated literate population of Pakistan believes that -

a. 26/11 was a Hindu conspiracy or/and
b. Kasab and co. are heroes who did the right thing because apparently and allegedly India is spreading terror in Pakistan

It is true that Pakistan suffers from terror - but this terror is from its own making. We in India don't blame Pakistan was ULFA militants in Assam but 26/11 was a Pakistani job. I can't do much as a private citizen except that if the current Govt. talks to the Pakistanis without the likes of Lakhvi or Saeed being jailed, I will not vote for the Congress in the next election - they will have lost my vote.
 
exactly same problem happened in Bangladesh,Baluchistan,Siachin..its Indian govt involve everywhere....very few people knows, even RAW trained MQM street fighters during 80s.

i sincerely hope that those few people include Pakistani aministration.

Well ,Pakistan took wrong decisions which resulted in Bangladesh and dont blame it to India .............thats the job of a enemy ................take advantage of weakness.

Pakistan tried that many times , may it be Kargil, or Khalistan or any other, resulted in failure
Balochistan confflict is going on for many decades now, India is not the starter of it. Pakistani govt. is yet to provide or show evidence to international community.

Saichen is part of Jammu and Kashmir and J&K is as of now regarded as a integral of part of Indian by Indian state..........so nothing wrong in taking it back:cheers:
 
Exactly East Pakistan was part of greater Pakistan. Where Indian state sponsored terrorism cause the separation. Now Indian govt meeting the same fate in Kashmir, but this time they have too many tears in their eyes and yelling for help in EU and WEST arena...
 
it seems india won,t budge SO PAKISTAN will have to throw the dice again..

BUT WHICH WAY ?????
We have no where to throw it.

What options do we realistically have? To force India's hand, we need to have some sway internationally at the very least. But as we've seen of late, all P5 members have visited India with sizeable delegations in the past few months. Their economic and diplomatic clout tramples ours.

Attempting to isolate or target India diplomatically won't happen.

The only other route is to tackly this directly, or bilaterally. India again holds the trump card here, and dictates proceedings. Its position is loud and clear: deal with 26/11 plotters first, then we'll talk.

We can chastise India for this approach, and call it rigid. But India will simply shrug its shoulders and say "you know what you have to do".

Or we can take this internationally, but we'll have no backers.

So it all comes back to 26/11, and quite rightly so.

What us Pakistani's need to do is take the Indian viewpoint. Let's for a moment say a 26/11 was done to us, and we had a pretty good idea who was behind it, yet they roamed freely in India, and justice seemed far away. I'm sure there'd be a good few voices in Pakistan calling for a pause in dialogue, until India took it upon themselves to get serious.

So as I've said, let's show we're serious about dealing with the 26/11 culprits. Not only to build bridges with India, not only to bring the perpetrators to justice, but also to send a message to these domestic militants that they will be tackled, and the threat they pose eliminated.

We cannot be taken seriously as a responsible state, or as a destination for investment if we provide succour to such outfits in the form of soft justice.

Let's think of our future, and qualities we can be proud of. Being a home or launchpad for these frankenstein creations isn't one of them, and one we can do without.
 
Exactly East Pakistan was part of greater Pakistan. Where Indian state sponsored terrorism cause the separation. Now Indian govt meeting the same fate in Kashmir, but this time they have too many tears in their eyes and yelling for help in EU and WEST arena...

Lol... are you sure its India whos yelping for help with tears in its eyes and **** in its pants?

Pakistan urges US to help resolve Kashmir issue

Fazl-Urges-UN-to-implement-its-resolutions[/COLOR]]Fazl Urges UN to implement its resolutions
 
Exactly East Pakistan was part of greater Pakistan. Where Indian state sponsored terrorism cause the separation. Now Indian govt meeting the same fate in Kashmir, but this time they have too many tears in their eyes and yelling for help in EU and WEST arena...

it was a full fledged war with that caused separation.......kashmir is going no where.
 
it was a full fledged war with that caused separation.......kashmir is going no where.

Confidence building measures will take generations for a better outcome regarding Kashmir. That future outcome as already agreed during the Musharraf era with the Government of India will include more open borders along the LOC for both family visits and for commerce, tourism, and travel in general.

A distinct campaign against terrorism, terrorits, and violence needs to be waged in the print media, on outdoor bill boards, on radio and on TV. Radio and TV are the best recurring medium to reach many people in today's Kashmir, be it PAK, IAK, or CAK.

Respect for different religions is a great public relations need, too.

When and if such down to earth human relations actions are on going, not just on again, off again, then agreement on a city to locate a single, central provincial capital for all three parts of Kashmir would be in order.

Using the Andorran Model, as I have suggested many times, which model has some support among the European leadership of the Jammu Kashmir Leadership Front (JKLF), allows Pakistan, India, and China to continue, indefinitely, providing for the security, safety, international relations and inter-governmental national government relations of the three parts of Kashmir.

A unified single Kashmir Parliament gives local home rule the same as any state in Pakistan, India, or China would otherwise have for any other provinces or states within these three major nations.

What is not needed is harping on religious differences. That has to become a personal not a "state" matter, with freedom of all religions, as well as the right to practice no religion if one so chooses.

A specific emphais on getting rid of secret alliances and training areas for terrorist groups both inside Pakistan and inside India is a must, and has to be fairly and openly pursued.

If past alliances, secret, with groups such as the Taliban, have been a source of recurring revenue to them, then let them now be openly paid by whoever, the ISI or whoever, to do simple, basic public works, building roads, bridges, homes, clinics, schools, parks, tourist attractions, art works for local to be build museums.

Just a few thoughts from an American outsider who lived and once worked in then West Pakistan in the early to mid-1960s.

PS - I would also like to see more sports progams for the poorest children, with balls, equipment clothing and such, as well as playing fields and courts provided by the state, mosques, churches, charities. Perpetually maintained and kept up for permanent use.
 
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Confidence building measures will take generations for a better outcome regarding Kashmir. That future outcome as already agreed during the Musharraf era with the Government of India will include more open borders along the LOC for both family visits and for commerce, tourism, and travel in general.

A distinct campaign against terrorism, terrorits, and violence needs to be waged in the print media, on outdoor bill boards, on radio and on TV. Radio and TV are the best recurring medium to reach many people in today's Kashmir, be it PAK, IAK, or CAK.

Respect for different religions is a great public relations need, too.

When and if such down to earth human relations actions are on going, not just on again, off again, then agreement on a city to locate a single, central provincial capital for all three parts of Kashmir would be in order.

Using the Andorran Model, as I have suggested many times, which model has some support among the European leadership of the Jammu Kashmir Leadership Front (JKLF), allows Pakistan, India, and China to continue, indefinitely, providing for the security, safety, international relations and inter-governmental national government relations of the three parts of Kashmir.

A unified single Kashmir Parliament gives local home rule the same as any state in Pakistan, India, or China would otherwise have for any other provinces or states within these three major nations.

What is not needed is harping on religious differences. That has to become a personal not a "state" matter, with freedom of all religions, as well as the right to practice no religion if one so chooses.

A specific emphais on getting rid of secret alliances and training areas for terrorist groups both inside Pakistan and inside India is a must, and has to be fairly and openly pursued.

If past alliances, secret, with groups such as the Taliban, have been a source of recurring revenue to them, then let them now be openly paid by whoever, the ISI or whoever, to do simple, basic public works, building roads, bridges, homes, clinics, schools, parks, tourist attractions, art works for local to be build museums.

Just a few thoughts from an American outsider who lived and once worked in then West Pakistan in the early to mid-1960s.

PS - I would also like to see more sports progams for the poorest children, with balls, equipment clothing and such, as well as playing fields and courts provided by the state, mosques, churches, charities. Perpetually maintained and kept up for permanent use.

For India the territorial integrity of our country is uncompromisable hence what ever final solution India or anybody reaches on Kashmir will have to be within Indian Constitution, Kashmir is a part of India and is under Indian Constitution and will remain so forever. Autonomy is fine but within limits

Rest everything you mentioned is pretty workable but again chicken or the egg first question arises, untill Pakistan doesn't move against perpetrators of 26/11, close down terror infrastructure and tackle LeT, Jaish, Hizbul etc etc there is nothing in there for India and we have made it ample clears that if somebody believes he will use terror as a bargaining chip or as a leverage it's unacceptable to us or anybody in the civilized world, we are very well capable of fighting fire with fire
 
To be sure my humble suggestion is understood.

Since India, Pakistan, and China would retain security, international relations, world trade and such matters over their respective areas of Kashmir, PAK, IAK, and CAK, but since there would in future (under my idealistic plan, the Andorran Model) be a single state or provincial level Kashiri Parliamenet, which would provide local governance in the three existing parts of Kashmir...but on a single, unified all rules are the same at the local level....with no loss of national soverignty to India, Pakistan, nor China...I fail to understand your digression to terrorist and law breakers wild actions as an excuse to not sit down and work the Andorran Model out?

I still like the term "Confidence Building Measurers" and all inside Pakistan can find it helpful, as it has been and continues to be helpful...and CBMs need to be promoted on all sides hereonout, perpetually, to help drown out naysayers and trouble makers on all sides.

There is a larger Muslim populations (all sects thereof) inside India than in all of Pakistan, so there is no rational basis to harp on religion one way or the other.

What is needed is to tamp down inflamatory statements, rhetoric, and hate mongering.

Perhaps the most difficult thing is to dissolve rumor mongering used to incite riots and ill will among those who are the least among you no matter which parts of Kashmir they reside in.

Thanks to taking time to let me rant a bit here. Remember, I am merely a well wisher American across the Pond.
 
To be sure my humble suggestion is understood.

Since India, Pakistan, and China would retain security, international relations, world trade and such matters over their respective areas of Kashmir, PAK, IAK, and CAK, but since there would in future (under my idealistic plan, the Andorran Model) be a single state or provincial level Kashiri Parliamenet, which would provide local governance in the three existing parts of Kashmir...but on a single, unified all rules are the same at the local level....with no loss of national soverignty to India, Pakistan, nor China...I fail to understand your digression to terrorist and law breakers wild actions as an excuse to not sit down and work the Andorran Model out?

I still like the term "Confidence Building Measurers" and all inside Pakistan can find it helpful, as it has been and continues to be helpful...and CBMs need to be promoted on all sides hereonout, perpetually, to help drown out naysayers and trouble makers on all sides.

There is a larger Muslim populations (all sects thereof) inside India than in all of Pakistan, so there is no rational basis to harp on religion one way or the other.

What is needed is to tamp down inflamatory statements, rhetoric, and hate mongering.

Perhaps the most difficult thing is to dissolve rumor mongering used to incite riots and ill will among those who are the least among you no matter which parts of Kashmir they reside in.

Thanks to taking time to let me rant a bit here. Remember, I am merely a well wisher American across the Pond.

Sounds workable but the devil lies in the details. Indian side of Kashmir currently enjoys Autonomy under article 370 of Indian constitution and enjoys special status (other Indians can't buy land in Kashmir etc etc) other than that an Autonomy proposal where Indian Supreme court and laws won't be applicable in Kashmir was shot down, so I guess India doesn't have anything else to offer on the Autonomy front

Also there is Hindu/Sikh/Buddhist dominated Jammu and Leh & Ladakh region in Jammu and Kashmir which wants to be part of India, for India the problem lies only in the small Sunni dominated Kashmir Valley
 
The need for a unified Kashmiri Parliament representing all Kashmirs at the state or provincial level as one state with three separate national ownerships may be difficult to absorb, but that is the need.
 
The need for a unified Kashmiri Parliament representing all Kashmirs at the state or provincial level as one state with three separate national ownerships may be difficult to absorb, but that is the need.

are you serious ??/:what:
that will increase the problem for kashmiris even more.
just imagine kishmiri parliament filled with representative of 3 nations which hate each other to the core deciding the fate of kashmir and all issues regarding kashmiris.:hitwall:
instead going with status quo is always better idea everyone ruke whatever they already have. atleast all three contries will do good for their part of kashmir thinking it as a part of their country.:yahoo:

and prosperity and development is what kashmir needs more than getting a kashmir unified again under three different umbrellas.:coffee:
 
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