Don’t let 26/11 bog down talks: Pakistan to India

[Fireurimagination]

Replying to several of your postings collectively:

1. Pakistan and India together have important natural resources, starting with Pakistan controlling major/key water flow/sources.

Nopes India control the flow/sources, which again are in Kashmir

2. The Governor of Pakistan has repeatedly admitted terrorists infiltrating from Pak side to Indian side, in Kashmir but also elsewhere, to include the Bombay (old name I still like to use personally) suicide attack.

They admitted the same only in case of 26/11 cause they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar by the whole planet

Otherwise the official line is we provide only moral and diplomatic support and we don't know where they bring their ammo from and why there are 40+ terrorist training camps in Pakistan and why terror outfits like LeT, Jaish, Hizbul operate from our soil and why head of all these dreaded terror outfits are state guests in Pakistan

3. It has become very imporant to think "outside the box" and move away from long held anomosities and cliches.

Agreed but there are more than one power centers in Pakistan and it's not clear who wants what etc

4. If we older generation folks cannot move away from hostile attitude then the idea of more in common basic public education of what India and Pakistan do have in common might help younger generations to communicate better.

Bitterness and historic resentments are not easy to get around, but get around them everyone must for the sake of future generations there. You are our "world neighbors" in an ever shrinking world.

Reference to saving on national defense applies both to Pakistan and India if better bi-lateral relations can ever be achieved.

Trade refers to national trade between India and Pakistan, but it also refers to trying to revamp and pump up the almost non-existant economy of all parts of Kashmir, PAK, IAK, CAK. Right now simply being a youth from any part of Kashmir "marks" one horribly as perhaps being an unstable or a dangerous risk to be hired and/or trained into the business and economic world of the main nation, be it Pakistan or India, or China for that matter.

Economic progress has begun in that planned oil and gas pipelines will exist ere long from the Stans into Pakistan via Iran and if the crazies ever get in line with sane life also through Afghanistan via Pakistan to both India, other parts of Pakistan, but especially to the new Port of Gwadar.

It is the job of all three major governments, Pakistan, India, and China to lead the way in overcoming past obstances...it is not the job of individuals who harbor hatred or animosities to expect to singularly prevent or hinder such sorely needed progress.

We in the West literally hated wartime Japan, Germany, and Italy, and later the USSR. We and the rest of the world in the main long ago got over these bad events and memories. You all for your own national sake must learn to do the same thing, get over it.

I am only a well wisher and certainly not "the Emperor of the World." But at least I have served there.

And yes, I was treated well in then West Paksitan from 1963-1965. When the 1965 War broke out, and I was there then, things pretty much "collapsed" and all of sudden instead of being allies we were looked on as "spies" and "the enemy" which was ridiculous and absurd. But here again immature attitudies quickly surfaced, incited by in partiular Z. A. Bhutto, who had his own agenda and who lead the way into radical Islamic government actions such as his amended Pakistani Constitution and his rush to befriend a then worldwide hostile to all Western interests rabid old style Communist China.

India wants friendly relations with all it's neighbors, it's in India's interest but territorial integrity is uncompromisable, using of terrorism is unacceptable in the civilized world or else we could have seen US negotiating with Al-Qaeda and Osama

 

[notorious_eagle]

They admitted the same only in case of 26/11 cause they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar by the whole planet

When did GOP confess that it planned the 26/11 attacks , what are you Indians smoking? Their is not a single ounce of evidence which implicates that GOP or any of its institutions were involved in the tragic attacks of 26/11. Stop making up B.S claims and the usual tactic of bringing in the world.

American Eagle. Hon Sir thank you for your post, i agree that India and Pakistan need to resolve their differences. In India's case, Indian hands are quite dirty when it comes to Pakistan. Their support of separatist organizations in Pakistan such as BLA is quite clear. They have been funnelling money to these organizations from their consulates in Afghanistan, this continues to be a huge irritant for Pakistan. Indians are probably the biggest hypocrites you will ever meet, they will condemn Pakistan for supporting terrorism without any evidence but continue to support terrorism inside Pakistan.

 

[American Eagle]

Indus River Water Treaty, Indus River Information, Indus River Facts, Indus River India Pakistan


http://www.mahalo.com/indus-river

I visited the Indus River inside Pakistan at different points during my tour of duty in West Pakistan, 1963-1965.

Had UK engineer friends who helped build the Mangla Dam.

Indus River headwaters per the above copy and pasted citation are in Tibet...Indus River flows the entire length of Pakistan, in Pakistan.

You are correct in that waters pass through India, but do not originate from India.

Maybe this unconfuses my hastily written earlier comments. Be glad to have your further clarifications on the Indus River in particular.

Per 1960 UN Treaty Pakistan controls the Western Rivers, India controls the Eastern Rivers, but yes, India can cause problems with the Western Rivers if they don't follow the 1960 Rivers Treaty.

Cheers.

Nopes India control the flow/sources, which again are in KashmirEND QUOTE

 

[KS]

Indus River Water Treaty, Indus River Information, Indus River Facts, Indus River India Pakistan


Indus River

I visited the Indus River inside Pakistan at different points during my tour of duty in West Pakistan, 1963-1965.

Had UK engineer friends who helped build the Mangla Dam.

Indus River headwaters per the above copy and pasted citation are in Tibet...Indus River flows the entire length of Pakistan, in Pakistan.

You are correct in that waters pass through India, but do not originate from India.

Maybe this unconfuses my hastily written earlier comments. Be glad to have your further clarifications on the Indus River in particular.

Per 1960 UN Treaty Pakistan controls the Western Rivers, India controls the Eastern Rivers, but yes, India can cause problems with the Western Rivers if they don't follow the 1960 Rivers Treaty.

Cheers.

What he meant was even though the rivers originate in Tibet, India still controls the water that flows to Pakistan.

And make no mistake, Pakistanis support for Kashmir is one for this water.

 

[American Eagle]

Would you say that the Saichen Glacier stand off relates to river waters disputes between India and Pakistan too?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

When did GOP confess that it planned the 26/11 attacks , what are you Indians smoking? Their is not a single ounce of evidence which implicates that GOP or any of its institutions were involved in the tragic attacks of 26/11. Stop making up B.S claims and the usual tactic of bringing in the world.

Read the discussion again. He said the Pakistani government admitted to terrorists infiltrating from Pak side to Indian side, including Bombay. Are you denying that as well?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Would you say that the Kargill Glacier stand off relates to river waters disputes between India and Pakistan too?

The glacier is called Siachen. Anyways, to quote wikipedia:

"The glacier's melting waters are the main source of the Nubra River in India Ladakh, which drains into the Shyok River. The Shyok in turn joins the Indus River, thus the glacier is a major source of the river Indus."

 

[American Eagle]

Thank you for correct spelling and pin pointing of Siachen Glacier.

Kargil War

One of the factors behind the Kargil War in 1999 when Pakistan sent infiltrators to occupy vacated Indian posts across the Line of Control was their belief that India would be forced to withdraw from Siachen in exchange of a Pakistani withdrawal from Kargil. Both sides had previously desired to disengage from the costly military outposts but after the Kargil War, India decided to maintain its military outposts on the glacier, wary of further Pakistani incursions into Kashmir if they vacate from the Siachen Glacier posts without an official recognition from Pakistan of the current positions.

As you can see my intention was to treat the Kargil War and Siachen Glacier as the same entwined subject. But your kind delineation to break it down into component parts is very helpful.

It has to be objectively noted that India did seize around 1,000 square miles of territory in this region when winter uniform orders from Pakistan's Army to a London outfitter resulted in the outfitter, who also sold to the Indian Army, blowing the whistle on Paksitan's intentions and thus "India got to the top firstest with the mostest troops."

This is an old Southern Confederal General's saying when he was asked how he had won or did win various calvary battles in the US Civil War for the Confederacy. General Nathan Bedford Forrest answered: "You win by gettin' there firstest with the mostest!"

Thanks,
American Eagle

The glacier is called Siachen. Anyways, to quote wikipedia:

"The glacier's melting waters are the main source of the Nubra River in India Ladakh, which drains into the Shyok River. The Shyok in turn joins the Indus River, thus the glacier is a major source of the river Indus."

 

[Storm Force]

I think its a fair assumption to conclude that This Kashmire issue is realy all about Water Supply/resource.

I assume he who has Kashmir Siachen & Kargil has control of water.

I assume at this stage THIS IS INDIA reason why they are so happy with STATUS QUO.

it seems india won,t budge SO PAKISTAN will have to throw the dice again..

BUT WHICH WAY ?????

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Would you say that the Kargill Glacier stand off relates to river waters disputes between India and Pakistan too?

Yes, the Siachen Glacier stand-off does in large measure relate to water disputes. While the Kargil issue relates to control of high ground which affords high eye-point visibility among other things.

 

[American Eagle]

OK to show I have understood from the first correction to my remarks earlier today, which I subsequently corrected but someone or some folks overlook my correction and keep referring back to my poor use of words, here is the delineation for the world:

Kargil is approximately 82.12 miles or 132.16 kilometers from the Saichen Glacier.

No one has been impolite, I simply want to be clear that I knew the difference but tied the two topics, the Kargil War and Saichen Glacier together as events have tied them together and they are inseparably intertwined in political trade off or negotation sense.

Both areas are at the "roof of world" within sight of K-2. I am a former Member of the Karakoum Mountain Climbing Club and have been only part way up K-2 at the base camp level many years ago as a young USAF Lieutenant.

Happy New Year.

 

[Prometheus]

OK to show I have understood from the first correction to my remarks earlier today, which I subsequently corrected but someone someone or some folks overlook my correction and keep referring back to my poor use of words, here is the delineation for the world:

Kargil is approximately 82.12 miles of 132.16 kilometers from the Saichen Glacier.

No one has been impolite, I simply want to be clear that I knew the difference but tied the two topics, the Kargil War and Saichen Glacier together as events have tied them together and they are inseparably intertwined in political trade off or negotation sense.

Both areas are at the "roof of world" within sight of K-2. I am a former Member of the Karakoum Mountain Climbing Club and have been only part way up K-2 at the base camp level many years ago as a young USAF Lieutenant.

Happy New Year.

 

[HAIDER]

Well, Indian insist so much of Mumbai attack and plus even no ready to cooperate with Pakistani judicial commission then why talk ?. If that's the attitude ,then Pak govt might raise Indian intervention in Banlgadash and hand over the or punish those who were involve in Bangla insurgency or occupation of Siachin, when Pakistan was busy in Afghan and rest of world were busy in Afghan war and Indian sneak in,

 

[ares]

Well, Indian insist so much of Mumbai attack and plus even no ready to cooperate with Pakistani judicial commission then why talk ?. If that's the attitude ,then Pak govt might raise Indian intervention in Banlgadash and hand over the or punish those who were involve in Bangla insurgency or occupation of Siachin, when Pakistan was busy in Afghan and rest of world were busy in Afghan war and Indian sneak in,

By relating 26/11 terrorist attack to Indian role in Bangladeshi independence ..you are tacitly accepting that your government/intelligence agencies were the part of 26/11 terrorist attack!!
Which is quite opposite to GOPs present stand ..that 26/11 was perprated by "Non state actors"

 

[HAIDER]

.you are tacitly accepting that your government/intelligence agencies were the part of 26/11 terrorist attack!!

exactly same problem happened in Bangladesh,Baluchistan,Siachin..its Indian govt involve everywhere....very few people knows, even RAW trained MQM street fighters during 80s.