Does Turkey Benefit From Cold War With Israel?

[500]

@500: if only you would know more well about the Jizya tax..Jizya system was in favour of non-muslim citizens. non-muslim had to pay jizya but in return they had to be provided security of life, property, honor and freedom of religion by muslim states...in addition, they were exempted from any military duty..

During Middle Ages armies were professional. So its basically nonsense. Also in Israel today Muslims are exempted from military service but no one forces them to pay a tax for that.

that is why non-muslim citizens always were more whealty than muslims.

Thats not true.

just remember andalusia...Spain was under sovereignty of muslim for 700 years...there was signifiant population of Christians and Jews without any problem...

Unfortunately thats not true. In 11th century Jews were expelled from Muslim part of Spain.

Israel is 100% Zionist state. if itis not so what factors inciting jews to gather in a land which they lost over 2000 years ago. According to any international laws Jews had no rights of re-establish a jewish state arround Jareselam. Otherwise all other nations shall have right of land that their ancestors ruled in history.

If this territory is not occupied by another state - then why not?

 

[Targon]

facepalm.jpg


If you are weak (like Ottoman empire in the beginning of 20th century), you need carefully chose allies. Ottomans chosed allies wrong and therefore they gone.

What facepalm genious ? you're comparing middle ages to modern world.

So they asked for something not theirs, Ottomans didn't accepted, therefore its justifies the all actions of Jews.

Middle age armies were not entirely proffessional, non-muslims were wealthier then muslims at least in Ottoman empire, because Ottomans made them merchant class while muslims were farmers and soldiers.

 

[LegionnairE]

During Middle Ages armies were professional. So its basically nonsense. Also in Israel today Muslims are exempted from military service but no one forces them to pay a tax for that.

armies were professional it's basically saying I don't know jack sh.t about Ottoman Empire so i chose to generalize. Anyone with a little bit of interest knows the difference between Sipahis and Janissaries at least.

Thats not true.

That is true, as Targon just explained Greeks Armenians and Jews were wealthiest people in Ottoman Empire

 

[500]

What facepalm genious ? you're comparing middle ages to modern world.

Who made these rules? Are US, Australia and News Zealand modern? Do you want to send them back to Europe too?

So they asked for something not theirs, Ottomans didn't accepted, therefore its justifies the all actions of Jews.

Palestine was sparsely populated land. None asked to expelled these few Arabs who lived there. In fact Arabs would only benefit from Jewish emigration. Ottomans decided to chose Arab nationalists as their allies over Jews. As result they lost both.

Middle age armies were not entirely proffessional, non-muslims were wealthier then muslims at least in Ottoman empire, because Ottomans made them merchant class while muslims were farmers and soldiers.

There were many non Muslims peasants in Ottoman Empire. They forced to pay tax unlike Muslim peasants.

 

[Targon]

In middle ages, invading entire countries, expelling people etc. were normal but we changed didn't we ? who can justify does actions today ? whats so hard to understand here ?

What kind of logic is that ? its like a person coems to your house, demands from you to give him one of your rooms, if you refuse you're wrong and deserved to be beaten ? god.

Muslims were directed into farmery and military by state hand, so they were poor thanks to the state, non-muslims were directed to be middle class, which ended in them being wealthiest class of empire, they had more opportunities then muslims.

 

[atatwolf]

armies were professional it's basically saying I don't know jack sh.t about Ottoman Empire so i chose to generalize. Anyone with a little bit of interest knows the difference between Sipahis and Janissaries at least.

That is true, as Targon just explained Greeks Armenians and Jews were wealthiest people in Ottoman Empire

Turks were not more poor on average. Turks happen to be bigger demographically so there were more people who were poor inherently.

Who made these rules? Are US, Australia and News Zealand modern? Do you want to send them back to Europe too?


Palestine was sparsely populated land. None asked to expelled these few Arabs who lived there. In fact Arabs would only benefit from Jewish emigration. Ottomans decided to chose Arab nationalists as their allies over Jews. As result they lost both.


There were many non Muslims peasants in Ottoman Empire. They forced to pay tax unlike Muslim peasants.

Don't be that innocent. Dont't you know that slavery was invented by the jews in europe. Jews had huge contributions to the distribution of slaves to the americas.

 

[500]

In middle ages, invading entire countries, expelling people etc. were normal but we changed didn't we ? who can justify does actions today ? whats so hard to understand here ?

I dont think that Middle Age people were worse that today. If you are bothered about rights of people get out of lands. U did not answer me about US and New Zealand.

What kind of logic is that ? its like a person coems to your house, demands from you to give him one of your rooms, if you refuse you're wrong and deserved to be beaten ? god.

You have a huge house that you cant defend from your enemies. I ask to take one small room that you dont ave any use of it in exchange for alliance and money. Is that bad deal?

Muslims were directed into farmery and military by state hand, so they were poor thanks to the state, non-muslims were directed to be middle class, which ended in them being wealthiest class of empire, they had more opportunities then muslims.

If you are forced to pay additional tax that opportunity? In each group only very small percent were middle class.

 

[Targon]

What are you asking me about US and New Zealand ?

If I choose to not give, does it makes me wrong ? What about thoughts of other housemates ? what if they don't like you and your presence going to increase tensions ?

Those taxes they payed were lesser then what they had paid under Byzantine or Catholic rule, one of the reasons why they accepted Turkish-Muslim rule without much troble.

Ottoman land system was bound to military therefore mostly involving muslims, thats why non-muslims were generally directed to be merchants or craftsmens , of course there were farmers too(not jews, jews were almost completely merchants or craftsmen), it was depending on region, but never heard of anything they having trouble with taxes, those extra taxes were not hıgh enough to gıve them trouble, plus as I already others mentioned they didn't had military service problem like muslims.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

1) Killing in war is not murder.
2) Ottomans denied Zionist offer for Jewish home in Palestine. In addition when WW1 started Ottomans began repressions against Jews of Palestine. Thus they alienated Jews but did not get the Arab support either.

Bayezid should have dumped Jews into the Mediteranian. Every night has a day. Every day has a night. Dont start Boasting Early.

 

[500]

What are you asking me about US and New Zealand ?

They are also illegal states since were created not in Middle Ages?

Bayezid should have dumped Jews into the Mediteranian. Every night has a day. Every day has a night. Dont start Boasting Early.

Bayezid accepted Jews and built a great empire. Mehmet kicked Jews from Palestine and lost empire.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Bayezid accepted Jews and built a great empire. Mehmet kicked Jews from Palestine and lost empire.

Jewish designed history.

 

[Targon]

Middle ages and colonial ages, we can neither justify anything done in colonial age, nor say same things are normal in our age.

 

[PteX]

Because there's no damn difference. Random killing is random killing. Armenians say the same things about Hınchak, Tashnak and Asala terror organizations. But the cold truth is that two of them raided Turkish and Kurdish villages killing hundereds of people in each attack and the latter assassinated Turkish diplomats abroad.


Did we? or did you? friends doesn't kill each others' nationals. And oh you WILL regret that.

Somehow, for some reason, i feel like i`m not the one that's going to regret their poor emotional decision. Your country stabbed Israel in the back just for some Arabs.

You should be grateful we showed restraint when others would not. But you aren't, so you are bound to make the same mistakes but with heavier consequences.

 

[500]

Jewish designed history.

You should also keep in mind that Jews of Jewish Legion were not citizens of Ottoman Empire. Unlike Arabs who revolted against Ottomans. Ottoman Jews remained loyal.

Middle ages and colonial ages, we can neither justify anything done in colonial age, nor say same things are normal in our age.

Sure. Thats why no one genocided Palestinian Arabs. Today in Palestine live 10 time more Arabs than during Ottomans.

 

[Targon]

That debate started when you said Jews fought againts Ottomans when their demand of taking land is rejected, thats the point.