Does Turkey Benefit From Cold War With Israel?

[what]

Ptex, seriously you overestimate this conflict. No matter what your foreign ministry and your media is telling you, there was never (at least as far as I can tell) an incident where a Jew or Israeli in Turkey has any problems, althought there was this one Basketball game 1-2 years ago.

 

[PteX]

Ptex, seriously you overestimate this conflict. No matter what your foreign ministry and your media is telling you, there was never (at least as far as I can tell) an incident where a Jew or Israeli in Turkey has any problems, althought there was this one Basketball game 1-2 years ago.

This one basketball game where over two thousand Turks came to harass the team and the game was cancelled.
Maybe you're not aware but even Turkish Jews felt very unsafe during the deterioration of the Israeli Turkish relationship.

 

[what]

This one basketball game where over two thousand Turks came to harass the team and the game was cancelled.
Maybe you're not aware but even Turkish Jews felt very unsafe during the deterioration of the Israeli Turkish relationship.

Western Turkey and Turkeys metropolises are safe for Jews, period. That was just one incident. But if I was a jew I would probably keep it to myself in rural eastern Turkey

 

[T-123456]

reading these arguments between Israel and Turkey feels like watching 2 of my brothers fight.... in the background im rolling my eyes thinking "cant we just get along already"

I'm sure in time we will...

This is just the frustration felt from both sides to events that happend in the past.
Currently both governments are a bit nationalist and to much based on religion so its obvious there is some friction.
There is just one fact which counts for both sides no matter what,Turkey and Israel need each other!

 

[500]

Israel established on the bases and ideas of zioninsm. With such a country it is impossible to be ally or freind. Frthermore, it is impossible to avoid being enemy of it in long term.

Because when the time come out each country that have land within great zionist map will be target of Israel. It is just qustion of the suitable time. As soon as Israel get appotunity he gonna to attempt to invade every part of allegedly promised holy land.

You really believe that that childish cartoon uploaded to imageshack is secret Zionist plan?

I can show some Turan map and say that its secret Turkish plan:

Here is the logo of Irgun, the most radical Zionist movement in history:

All they dreamt about if Palestine Mandate. Today the overwhelming majority of Zionists, including right wing Likud and Liebarman parties agree to two state solution.

As for the point of view of religion, Islam doesnt ban any relations of humanity with Jews or other non-muslim communities. Islam also order muslims to be best and most fair side in mutual human relations with non muslims. That is why Jews and Christian live under sovereignty of various muslim states throughout history have freedom of religion since over 1400 years.

Jews in Muslim countries were third class citizens. They were subject to jizya tax and many oppressive humiliating laws, like yellow badge. On the other hand Muslims in Israel are full right citizens and they live much better than in their own countries.

 

[LegionnairE]

You really believe that that childish cartoon uploaded to imageshack is secret Zionist plan?

I can show some Turan map and say that its secret Turkish plan:

It's just a map showing where Turks are spreaded.. as you can see most Turkic nations and tribes still are still resident in central Asia. On the other hand I'm having trouble to see how Hatay and Gaziantep provinces of Turkey could be of any importance to israel.

Anyway anyway, if there's such a secret goal of Israel which I'm sure there is We welcome you just as we welcomed the crusaders.

 

[Gaara]

Here is the logo of Irgun, the most radical Zionist movement in history

Irgun was more than a radical movement, it was a terrorist organization which killed civilians on purpose.

 

[T-123456]

Jews in Muslim countries were third class citizens. They were subject to jizya tax and many oppressive humiliating laws, like yellow badge. On the other hand Muslims in Israel are full right citizens and they live much better than in their own countries

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...benefit-cold-war-israel-14.html#ixzz2HeWF8HPt
Jews were never third or even second class citizens in Turkey,so i object to that.

 

[PteX]

Irgun was more than a radical movement, it was a terrorist organization which killed civilians on purpose.

Irgun was never a terrorist orginization.
Irgun did not have the murder of innocents as its purpose or even as its principal tactic, that the great majority of its activities were not murderous, and that it saved thousands of lives.

It was the answer to the mass murders committed by Arabs against the Jews. Their very goal was to defend Jews.

 

[Gaara]

Irgun was never a terrorist orginization.

Here are the list of the civilians that were murdered by Irgun.

List of Irgun attacks
1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
1939, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and market in Jerusalem.
1939, June 19 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
1946, July 22 91 people were killed at King David Hotel Bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla
1948, March 1 20 Britons killed and 30 wounded in the Bevingrad Officers Club bombing
1948, April 9-April 11 107-120 Palestinians killed and massacred during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin

Full List: List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Deir Yassin massacre
Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes. Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.

Full Text: Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Bombing markeplaces with bombs attached to donkeys...
Attacking hotels with bombs full of civilians...
Massacring civilian villagers who has no guns..

So yes. Irgun, unquestionably, was a terrorist organization.

 

[TurAr]

He certainly has some very unique way of thought process when deciding who is terrorist and who is not.

 

[PteX]

Here are the list of the civilians that were murdered by Irgun.

List of Irgun attacks
1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
1939, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and market in Jerusalem.
1939, June 19 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
1946, July 22 91 people were killed at King David Hotel Bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla
1948, March 1 20 Britons killed and 30 wounded in the Bevingrad Officers Club bombing
1948, April 9-April 11 107-120 Palestinians killed and massacred during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin

Full List: List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Deir Yassin massacre
Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes. Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.

Full Text: Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Bombing markeplaces with bombs attached to donkeys...
Attacking hotels with bombs full of civilians...
Massacring civilian villagers who has no guns..

So yes. Irgun, unquestionably, was a terrorist organization.

Unlike terrorist organizations, their targets were never civilians. If you call a group a terrorist organization when civilians die then then these might shock you.

Hamidian massacres 100,000-300,000
Greek genocide 500,000-2,000,000
Assyrian genocide 270,000 - 750,000
Catastrophe of Smyrna 10,000-100,000
Armenian Genocide 600,000-1,800,000

To name a few. The combined casualties of these targeted massacres of civilians by the Turks in the last century alone accounts to over 4 million civilians murdered, raped and enslaved.

Spare me your hypocrisy. Where are all the figures of the Jews massacred by the Arabs killed by Irgun? Lost in the propaganda?

Here, i'll help:
Hebron massacre - 133 Jews murdered by Arabs
Jaffa riots - 45 Jews murdered by Arabs
1938 Tiberias pogrom - 19 Jews murdered by Arabs
11 Jews killed, 1 decapitated near Yavne[1]
N/A January 14, 1948 Arab militants 7 Jews, 2 Britons killed in Haifa[1]
N/A January 20, 1948 Arab militants 8 Jews killed in Yehiam[1]
N/A January 22, 1948 Arab militants 7 Jews killed near Yazur[1]
N/A January 25, 1948 Arab militants 10 Jews killed[1]
N/A Feb 3, 1948 Arab militants 6 Jews killed while riding buses in Haifa[1]
N/A Feb 8, 1948 Arabs 6 Jews killed in Jerusalem[1]
N/A Feb 8, 1948 Arab militants 3 Jews killed in Tel Aviv[1]
Ben Yehuda Street bombing - 55 Jews murdered by Arabs.
Kfar Etzion massacre 157 Jews killed murdered by Arabs[1]
The list is long, want me to continue?

Irgun defended Jews and retaliated against the murderers.

 

[TurAr]

Unlike terrorist organizations, their targets were never civilians. If you call a group a terrorist organization when civilians die then then these might shock you.

Oh, okay.

It was the donkey's fault anyway, charging into a marketplace with bombs and sht...

 

[Gaara]

Unlike terrorist organizations, their targets were never civilians.

If sending a bomb attached donkey to marketplace is not targetting civillians on purpose, I don't know what it is then. Irgun targeted civilians on purpose. There is nothing to discuss about it.

If you call a group a terrorist organization when civilians die then then these might shock you.

Hamidian massacres 100,000-300,000
Greek genocide 500,000-2,000,000
Assyrian genocide 270,000 - 750,000
Catastrophe of Smyrna 10,000-100,000
Armenian Genocide 600,000-1,800,000

To name a few. The combined casualties of these targeted massacres of civilians by the Turks in the last century alone accounts to over 4 million civilians murdered, raped and enslaved.

Spare me your hypocrisy. Where are all the figures of the Jews massacred by the Arabs killed by Irgun? Lost in the propaganda?

Here, i'll help:
Hebron massacre - 133 Jews murdered by Arabs
Jaffa riots - 45 Jews murdered by Arabs
1938 Tiberias pogrom - 19 Jews murdered by Arabs
11 Jews killed, 1 decapitated near Yavne[1]
N/A January 14, 1948 Arab militants 7 Jews, 2 Britons killed in Haifa[1]
N/A January 20, 1948 Arab militants 8 Jews killed in Yehiam[1]
N/A January 22, 1948 Arab militants 7 Jews killed near Yazur[1]
N/A January 25, 1948 Arab militants 10 Jews killed[1]
N/A Feb 3, 1948 Arab militants 6 Jews killed while riding buses in Haifa[1]
N/A Feb 8, 1948 Arabs 6 Jews killed in Jerusalem[1]
N/A Feb 8, 1948 Arab militants 3 Jews killed in Tel Aviv[1]
Ben Yehuda Street bombing - 55 Jews murdered by Arabs.
Kfar Etzion massacre 157 Jews killed murdered by Arabs[1]
The list is long, want me to continue?

Irgun defended Jews and retaliated against the murderers.

Your examples are irrelavent to the subject. Irgun was a terrorist organization. One must be either a stupid or a jew to deny that.

 

[500]

Irgun was more than a radical movement, it was a terrorist organization which killed civilians on purpose.

Yes they did, although much less that Fatah or Hamas. And my point is that even most radical Zionist group did not even dream about that silly border posted by Jamaal Yelmaaz.

...

No need to deny the obvious and divert subject.