Does Pakistan Have a Sea-Based Second-Strike Capability?

[SecularNationalist]

It is absolutely relevant if Pakistan hopes for MAD scenario with India, or even the one of minimum credible deterrence.

Without having an assured second strike capability, enemy can carry out pre-emptive decapitation strikes(even nuclear strike) on Pakistan's land based nuclear arsenal, and significantly reduce it effectiveness, if not totally eliminate it all together.

A decapitated nuclear capability and India's fledging ballistics missiles shields, will ensure Pakistan will suffer much more losses nuclear terms than India and will altogether lose the nuclear war.

Keep satisfying yourself on online forums while most of you cannot sleep well because of the fear of our nukes

 

[ares]

View attachment 203114

Well the scenario is not that far fetched.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Are you daft, where did I say INS depends of magnetic variation?

But DSMAC and TERCOM do.

TERCOM depends on radar altimeter and pre-fed terrain altitude info. That needs accurate mapping via satellite. But that data is commercially available.
DSMAC depends on Infrared or Visual camera for scene matching and again one must have clear enough pictures of enemy territory. Yes both dont work on sea or flat areas.
But still i can't understand your fuss about magnetic variation?

 

[ares]

TERCOM depends on radar altimeter and pre-fed terrain altitude info. That needs accurate mapping via satellite. But that data is commercially available.
DSMAC depends on Infrared or Visual camera for scene matching and again one must have clear enough pictures of enemy territory. Yes both dont work on sea or flat areas.
But still i can't understand your fuss about magnetic variation?

My question is simple.. you have these navigation system in your missile..how do you navigate over water? Wonder how tomahawk does it with.. So that it doesn't even need GPS signal?

 

[HRK]

Well the scenario is not that far fetched.

 

[Kabira]

With Pak gdp projected to cross $1 trillion in 2022, many things will become possible

 

[shaheenmissile]

My question is simple.. you have these navigation system in your missile..how do you navigate over water? Wonder how tomahawk does it with.. So that it doesn't even need GPS signal?

can be many ways of doing that. One such way is beidou of which Pakistan is military user and we maintain their earth station.

 

[Gufi]

can be many ways of doing that. One such way is beidou of which Pakistan is military user and we maintain their earth station.

we will use our terror ships, use them too load launching vehicles loaded with shaheen III and launch them deep into India, no GPS needed, fully ballistic. finish this ridiculous argument please seems like the debate is going from not needing sea deterance all the way to water magnetic waves whatever.

 

[shaheenmissile]

we will use our terror ships, use them too load launching vehicles loaded with shaheen III and launch them deep into India, no GPS needed, fully ballistic. finish this ridiculous argument please seems like the debate is going from not needing sea deterance all the way to water magnetic waves whatever.

Yaar please dont be a goof

 

[Gufi]

Yaar please dont be a goof

Gufi not being a goof, come on you explained it all to him, I explained why we do not even need a deterrents even though one would be nice, but he asks weirder questions each time... ok you may continue, have fun

 

[kṣamā]

Firstly let's make something very clear. Any nuclear war will wipe the existence of Pakistan and humanity from India. Now that the elephant is out of the room let's discuss about Second strike capability. I will present some realistic scenario.

The scenario goes like this:-
During a decisive war, Pakistan launches a Tactical/Limited/Complete nuclear attack so as to bring India to bargaining table or to cripple India as a whole. Those ballistic missiles are picked up by long range sensors that are already deployed and sometime latter (as they are harder to detect) the cruise missiles are detected by the airborne sensors on AWACS or fighters. As a response canisterised missiles from Indian side are launched in retaliation. Inevitably as the Pakistani ballistic missiles are in range of Indian BMD, few are shot down, But statistically speaking few will slip through and will detonate on ground either over population centers or over strategic assets. Same will be the case with Indian missiles but the difference is that they face no BMD and are unobstructed to their path to destruction.

Now in the above scenario I have assumed nothing. Pakistan already have a large amount of nuclear warheads and missiles. They have already made it very clear that they will retaliate with nuclear weapons as conventional disparity grows. Pakistan, in very near future, will add S-3A to it's inventory, that will cover entire Indian land mass. India has a very clear nuclear doctrine. India is currently canisterising it's missiles from short range to long range, giving them a very fast Command-to-Launch times. India, in very near future, is going to deploy two phase BMD.

Now the point of making such an elaborate scenario is, even if by some magical way Pakistani warheads make past Indian BMD and target each and every mobile launcher units and also successfully destroy them. Also the nukes fired by India as a retaliation are intercepted by some god send means, even then India will have nukes left at sea that can do the job.

So the above clearly shows how having a BMD and a Second strike capability assures that other party will have a destruction at their hands.

 

[ares]

can be many ways of doing that. One such way is beidou of which Pakistan is military user and we maintain their earth station.

What has maintaining an ground earth station got to with being given access to military signal?

However if Pakistan does have the access to military signal of Beidou, it is yet to deploy beidou military grade receiver on its missiles.

The other way, is use to magnetic current variation charts of the ocean bodies it is going to fly over and use those to navigate over the ocean, however these have to be very accurate maps (as changes in magnetic variation over an area of 500-700 km is already in decimals)...and not those commercially available admiralty charts.

Given that Pakistan is yet to test Babur over any water body or from a water body, is not an encouraging sign.

 

[New World]

The question is irrelevant.

He who Controls the Sea is most Powerful

courtesy: indian Friend

i.e none country in the world even thinks to go near the US because they the Capabilities of USN..

 

[shaheenmissile]

What has maintaining an ground earth station got to with being given access to military signal?

However if Pakistan does have the access to military signal of Beidou, it is yet to deploy beidou military grade receiver on its missiles.

The other way, is use to magnetic current variation charts of the ocean bodies it is going to fly over and use those to navigate over the ocean, however these have to be very accurate maps (as changes in magnetic variation over an area of 500-700 km is already in decimals)...and not those commercially available admiralty charts.

Given that Pakistan is yet to test Babur over any water body or from a water body, is not an encouraging sign.

I still dont get your magnetic variation thing and how navigation is possible using that.
The magnetic longitudes are defined as a line joining all the points on the surface if earth with same variation, and these lines are never straight as geographical longitudes but have a constant rate of drift for each area for which navigational charts are available and are very accutate as they are produced for use by ships and aircrafts.
You dont need your own satellite just for knowing magnetic variation. But how even accurate magnatic variation cam give you position, that is beyond me as there are no magnetic latitudes.
A missile can cover oceanic span just by using INS and when making landfall, can correct position scene matching. For example looking for a hill , light house , a land contour or other prominent coastal feature.
Once above that known landmark. Then navigate inland by TERCOM. and INS.
That is more useful than yout method of variation.
I have been a navigator myself. But if i am mussing something, correct me.

 

[ares]

I still dont get your magnetic variation thing and how navigation is possible using that.
The magnetic longitudes are defined as a line joining all the points on the surface if earth with same variation, and these lines are never straight as geographical longitudes but have a constant rate of drift for each area for which navigational charts are available and are very accutate as they are produced for use by ships and aircrafts.
You dont need your own satellite just for knowing magnetic variation. But how even accurate magnatic variation cam give you position, that is beyond me as there are no magnetic latitudes.
A missile can cover oceanic span just by using INS and when making landfall, can correct position scene matching. For example looking for a hill , light house , a land contour or other prominent coastal feature.
Once above that known landmark. Then navigate inland by TERCOM. and INS.
That is more useful than yout method of variation.
I have been a navigator myself. But if i am mussing something, correct me.

I will give a detailed answer later, first understand the basics.

http://www.beidoudb.com:88/document/uploads/eb67fed4-379a-4993-b801-c27d2310a21d.pdf