Does Pakistan Have a Sea-Based Second-Strike Capability?

[ares]

The point is simple, the cruise missile can take out Delhi evading the missile defences. There will be no command and control centre left so India will be helpless and have no ability to fight back. Seems weird this logic yes??

Offcourse a simple cruise missile if fitted with nuclear warhead can take out any target with in its range.
But taking down subsonic cruise missiles is equally easy, when detected, even fighter aircraft can bring it down.

And command and control system will be disrupted, when a country has suffered a dozen or so nuclear attacks.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Well they are comparable, if one wants to say, that neither has been configured or fired from sub.

However Nirbhay does have advantage an over Babur, besides the obvious range advantage (1100 KM vs 700 Km), is its ability to fly over large water bodies, as it depends on conventional Inertial Navigation system combined with IRNSS, where as Babur depends on Tercom, which is useless over water.

Gone are the days when one needed own navigation system. No so many are available that shutting down of all simultaneously is nearly impossible. Babur can make use of Beidou Gps orany other available system over water.
Plus Nirbhay only had one succesful launch. Babur had many. So again,no comparison here.

 

[SipahSalar]

Offcourse a simple cruise missile if fitted with nuclear warhead can take out any target with in its range.
But taking down subsonic cruise missiles is equally easy, when detected, even fighter aircraft can bring it down.

And command and control system will be disrupted, when a country has suffered a dozen or so nuclear attacks.

Detecting cruise missiles is no joke. Even USA considers cruise missile threats to be its Achilles heel, now supa pawa India might fare better according to Indians but i wont place any money on it.
Could the U.S. Face a Cruise Missile Threat from the Gulf of Mexico? - NationalJournal.com

 

[ares]

Pakistani Babur is based on Tomahawk missiles which fell in Pakistan. They were fired from submarines and did have the guidance system to navigate water bodies. Besides guidance over water is not a big deal.

Well if that were true, you would already fielded a ship launched version or Anti ship version of Babur.

Problem is not, that Pakistan does not have requisite guidance, problem is Pakistan does not have the required magnetic variation maps of water bodies...which require extensive satellite surveys.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Awacs can detect cruise missiles. But they remain a threat.

Well if that were true, you would already fielded a ship launched version or Anti ship version of Babur.

Problem is not, that Pakistan does not have requisite guidance, problem is Pakistan does not have the required magnetic variation maps of water bodies...which require extensive satellite surveys.

All that is comercially available now.

 

[IND151]

It is absolutely relevant if Pakistan hopes for MAD scenario with India, or even the one of minimum credible deterrence.

Without having an assured second strike capability, enemy can carry out pre-emptive decapitation strikes(even nuclear strike) on Pakistan's land based nuclear arsenal, and significantly reduce it effectiveness, if not totally eliminate it all together.

A decapitated nuclear capability and India's fledging ballistics missiles shields, will ensure Pakistan will suffer much more losses nuclear terms than India and will altogether lose the nuclear war.

Exactly

 

[SipahSalar]

Well if that were true, you would already fielded a ship launched version or Anti ship version of Babur.

Problem is not, that Pakistan does not have requisite guidance, problem is Pakistan does not have the required magnetic variation maps of water bodies...which require extensive satellite surveys.

Now i get what @Gufi meant, your illogical statements and claims are giving me a headache. Babur is not an anti-ship missile first and foremost. Secondly, How did you come to the conclusion that Pakistan does not those maps? What insider knowledge do you have? Even your own research institutions claim that Babur can be sea launched without any challenging changes.

 

[ares]

Gone are the days when one needed own navigation system. No so many are available that shutting down of all simultaneously is nearly impossible. Babur can make use of Beidou Gps orany other available system over water.
Plus Nirbhay only had one succesful launch. Babur had many. So again,no comparison here.

Well it can, but are your sure military signal will be available from NAVSTAR or Beidou GPS.

The GPS receiver used in missiles is very different from those used in cars. above a certain height and speed, the GPS receiver needs to decrypt the Precision code (P code) to continue to provide guidance.

Awacs can detect cruise missiles. But they remain a threat.


All that is comercially available now.

No it is not, and it would foolish to pin hopes of a multi million dollar missile, armed with nuclear warhead finding its target, on 'google maps'.

 

[SipahSalar]

Well it can, but are your sure military signal will be available from NAVSTAR or Beidou GPS.

The GPS receiver used in missiles is very different from those used in cars. above a certain height and speed, the GPS receiver needs to decrypt the Precision code (P code) to continue to provide guidance.

Really? REALLY? I mean REALLY REALLY? Someone presents to you an Iphone 6 and the only question you can think of is does it have SMS?

We acquired a nuclear program despite the world working against us. And you are questioning whether we have access to 2 cent maps of water bodies? I don't know if you are being sarcastic or really thick.

 

[ares]

Now i get what @Gufi meant, your illogical statements and claims are giving me a headache. Babur is not an anti-ship missile first and foremost. Secondly, How did you come to the conclusion that Pakistan does not those maps? What insider knowledge do you have? Even your own research institutions claim that Babur can be sea launched without any challenging changes.

Hell, you were comparing Babur to Tomahawk, do you even know, how many version of Tomahawk exists?
Anti ship version of Tomahawk being one of them..so why is illogical to ask, why isn't there a anti ship, or even ship launched version of Babur?

Besides how many ocean survey satellites does Pakistan have, that it can accurately measure the flow magnetic current over different regions of water...so that they can be used by the missile to fly over water bodies.

Well it is not a major change, you just have to switch the guidance system to be launched from sea, homing system to target at sea, and booster to be launched from submarine, but question is, why haven't you already done. it. after all it has been almost a decade now.

 

[shaheenmissile]

@CaptainPopeye
Talk to him about magnetic variation charts

 

[ares]

Really? REALLY? I mean REALLY REALLY? Someone presents to you an Iphone 6 and the only question you can think of is does it have SMS?

We acquired a nuclear program despite the world working against us. And you are questioning whether we have access to 2 cent maps of water bodies? I don't know if you are being sarcastic or really thick.

It is not 2 cent map of the water body from 6 months ago , it is the real time, map of magnetic currents of a water body, that is needed for DSMAC guidance.

@captain Poeye
Talk to him about magnetic variation charts

What do you wanna know about magnetic variation?

 

[shaheenmissile]

What do you wanna know about magnetic variation?

INS has nothing to do with magnetic compass. I works with gyroscopes. Either mechanical or ring laser.
Gyro compasses work on Gyroscopic inertia and three degrees of freedom.

Try to read about these concepts and then we can talk

 

[ares]

INS has nothing to do with magnetic compass. I works with gyroscopes. Either mechanical or ring laser.
Gyro compasses work on Gyroscopic inertia and three degrees of freedom.

Try to read about these concepts and then we can talk

Are you daft, where did I say INS depends of magnetic variation?

But DSMAC and TERCOM do.

 

[HRK]

- Arihant class sub can pump 12 nuclear missiles into Pakistan
- Pakistan will not even get 30 second warning
- if India is able neutralize even 80 % of Pakistani nukes in first strike, - the rest 20% will be fired against already deployed missile shield
- a non existent command and control structure.
- of course India might lose a couple or more cities, but these losses are minute in nuclear terms.