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Does Pakistan have a future ?

Canada , US and other western countries did not have such a divided society to begin with. Their population is more egalitarian.They did not have the religious fundamentalism and the feudalism that Pakistan suffers from. They always had there armies and intelligence agencies under the civilian government control. What ever I have said could be true for India to some extent too. But more so for Pakistan.

Are you kidding me? Both Canada and America had gone through a civil war. Canada had to fight against french separatists such as the FLQ, and the US had to fight against the confederate south. To this day, both nations still have such tensions. The Christian right has made tremendous ground in the last 12 years, so to say that religious fundamentalism doesn't exist there is foolish. Feudalism sure, but that's something that every country has to go through and the US and Canada did.

Their armies and intel services weren't always in civilian gov control, for example, in the US, during WW2 the army pretty much ran the country, and during the cold war, the army pretty much dictated foreign policy and the CIA pretty much acted autonomously without civilian oversight. In Canada, the RCMP has been constantly accused of interfering in government affairs, or trying to cover up their own mistakes, while the Canadian army has pretty much been neutered, so it can't even be considered a proper army anyway.

Again, nothing you've said is the truth. You're exaggerating and using your own personal bias which is obviously anti-Pakistan, so you can make it seem like you're right and everyone else is wrong.
 
Are you kidding me? Both Canada and America had gone through a civil war. Canada had to fight against french separatists such as the FLQ, and the US had to fight against the confederate south. To this day, both nations still have such tensions. The Christian right has made tremendous ground in the last 12 years, so to say that religious fundamentalism doesn't exist there is foolish. Feudalism sure, but that's something that every country has to go through and the US and Canada did.

Their armies and intel services weren't always in civilian gov control, for example, in the US, during WW2 the army pretty much ran the country, and during the cold war, the army pretty much dictated foreign policy and the CIA pretty much acted autonomously without civilian oversight. In Canada, the RCMP has been constantly accused of interfering in government affairs, or trying to cover up their own mistakes, while the Canadian army has pretty much been neutered, so it can't even be considered a proper army anyway.

Again, nothing you've said is the truth. You're exaggerating and using your own personal bias which is obviously anti-Pakistan, so you can make it seem like you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Yes they went through civil war to become sane. Is Pakistan ready to fight a civil war ? If Pakistan wants a better future, it will have to go through some tough times where things have to get much worse than this. Only then will it find its true identity and reason to develop as a nation.
 
@Menace2Society

The concept of khilafat might be dead for secular nationalists like you but not for the vast majority of muslims. Khilafat is not some man made system rather it is an integral part of deen e islam.

There is no concept of foreign and local in islam. These concept of foreign and local nationalities has been taught to you by your white masters of whom your ancestors where loyal and obedient subjects and vassals and so are you.

Because of your faith in your bomb and not in Allah, Allah has disgraced and humiliated you through the American and NATO kuffar who bomb you every single day with drones, who carry out special forces raids on your military cantonments, who bomb your soldiers with helicopter gunships but still you are obliged to lick their boots like dogs with all your good for nothing Atom Bum and missiles . While Allah honoured and dignified those rag tag, shabby and ill equipped Mujahideen who fought and defeated the two so called 'super powers' without any atom bums and missiles but only with their faith and conviction in Allah.

If i am a ghaddar then Allamah Iqbal would be the greatest ghaddar before secular nationalists like you as he was the one who most profusely and aggressively promoted the idea of one single islamic ummah and cursed and rejected democracy and nationalism.

Even your white masters in EU have rejected the ideology of nation states by founding and creating a single European entity. Moreover its a matter of time now that capitalism also meets the same fate as that of communism Insha Allah and with it also and end to the rotten ideology of democracy and nationalism.

See this is the fallacy of your argument, you are assuming I am secularist just because I am a nationalist.

I believe in the right for people living in this area of the world called Pakistan having the right to decide how and who should govern them.

For you to question my religion is absurd, I can also be Muslim and have my freedoms. Free from being dictated to, free from foreign monarchies, dictatorships who have used Islam as a vehicle to express their ego. An ego you are absorbed in because you have a slave mind. Unable to see the potential God has given you and your people.

White masters? As opposed to your suggestion of having brown arab masters. You have your head buried in the grandeur of other civilizations and have forgot to create your own.

Allama Iqbal was the catalyst, he is the very essence and soul of Pakistan.

Capitalism and democracy works, exercised in its purest form, it has the ability share the power which your masters have held so closely to them for centuries. Using it amongst their close circles while the masses in a remote outpost of South Asia having no say, the only justification being you are part of the "ummah" like they should feel privileged being a part of their empire. Only a fool would agree to that.

If you were Pakistani you would understand the beauty of having your own borders, a place you can call home and live how you want to live instead of being dictated to like the world powers have always done to us over the centuries.

The future involves people like you moving to Turkey, Saudi Arabia or wherever so you can fulfill your fantasies of being subordinate to a foreign power and Pakistan can finally begin to fulfill the potential God has entrusted in her.
 
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Every country has the potential to succeed provided honest and patriotic people come in power.
 
IMO,unlike India,Pakistan is a newborn nation. Its history is being made. Pakistan will indeed rise and shine in future.
 
Yes they went through civil war to become sane. Is Pakistan ready to fight a civil war ? If Pakistan wants a better future, it will have to go through some tough times where things have to get much worse than this. Only then will it find its true identity and reason to develop as a nation.

The problem with your argument is that it's already been through the worst time in it's entire history, and now it's recovering. Pakistan already has an identity, and a reason to develop as a nation.

You really have no clue what you're talking about, so please stop pretending you do.
 
The problem with your argument is that it's already been through the worst time in it's entire history, and now it's recovering. Pakistan already has an identity, and a reason to develop as a nation.

You really have no clue what you're talking about, so please stop pretending you do.

you are too angry and not objective. come back when you can overlook the fact that I am an Indian.
 
you are too angry and not objective. come back when you can overlook the fact that I am an Indian.

It's not about anger, it's about facts. I usually do overlook people's nationalities because I find such minor things to be trivial at best, but the fact remains is that you're making such arguments because you're Indian. It's your bias as an Indian to be skeptical at everything Pakistanis do.

Every single one of your arguments have fallen apart, and now you're trying to character assassinate me by calling accusing me of being bias towards you because of your Indian origin.

come back when you actually have a convincing argument, otherwise, stop pretending you know what you're talking about.
 
It's not about anger, it's about facts. I usually do overlook people's nationalities because I find such minor things to be trivial at best, but the fact remains is that you're making such arguments because you're Indian. It's your bias as an Indian to be skeptical at everything Pakistanis do.

Every single one of your arguments have fallen apart, and now you're trying to character assassinate me by calling accusing me of being bias towards you because of your Indian origin.

come back when you actually have a convincing argument, otherwise, stop pretending you know what you're talking about.
You should first thinking you are the Canada or US in their infancy. Their challenges were very different from yours. They had a homogeneous, largely literate population. still they went through civil wars before settling for a common nationhood. Pakistan on the other hand is a deeply divided society with growing religious extremism tat is challenging your nationhood. while your all powerful army and ISI are looking after their own well being. The week,impotent civilian government has no solution to get out of this mess. The more weaker governments come to power, the stronger your internal enemies will become and the tougher it will be to tackle them. Now I would like a reply without name calling, if possible.
 
You should first thinking you are the Canada or US in their infancy. Their challenges were very different from yours. They had a homogeneous, largely literate population. still they went through civil wars before settling for a common nationhood. Pakistan on the other hand is a deeply divided society with growing religious extremism tat is challenging your nationhood. while your all powerful army and ISI are looking after their own well being. The week,impotent civilian government has no solution to get out of this mess. The more weaker governments come to power, the stronger your internal enemies will become and the tougher it will be to tackle them. Now I would like a reply without name calling, if possible.

Why are you repeating claims that I've already debunked?

You seem to think that if you lie enough, people will believe you.
 
you do realize that some of them perhaps were still in school and/or hadnt completed their masters right?

anything is achievable in Pakistan if you work hard and are creative and different....yeah the economy is slow and there's a lack of investment so indeed job shortages but where there is creativity and hard work, there will be success

youre acting as if the common man in indian is rolling in dough :laugh:

I do not understand why my post makes you get defensive bro. Indians have been coming back to India from the West increasingly over the last 5-10 years. No more is migrating abroad looked at as the Holy grail by the middle class. Sure everyone would like to get a good foreign education if he could manage a good scholarship. But the country pulls its own back, and its not only due to patriotism, or home sickness, or Indian values for growing kids, but because of a better economy and opportunities.

So when we hear of a Pakistani with a foreign degree coming back, it goes against the established trend of most Pakistanis trying to get out of the country one way or the other, or at least secure a decent exit and life abroad for their kids. That is what I meant.

And coming on the back of your elections, after the previous government actually completing its term, its positives to be grabbed, in a largely bleak climate. Nothing else. I was trying to be positive. Because its so easy to be negative, and it gets boring after a while.
 
I believe it is wrong to be hopeless and so pessimistic about the future of Pakistan. I pointed the same thing out Stephen P Cohen's book the future of Pakistan.

Terrorism will fall apart the moment US withdraws from Afghanistan. There will be no reason for the militants to fight, then we can launch a major operation to utterly eliminate the hardcore militants.

I would like to point out that we missed a brilliant opportunity to launch a major operation when Malala was attacked. The entire nation stood behind the army at that time. Still I believe an operation is required in South Waziristan that completely clears the region of militants. Of the 6 tehsils in which operation Rah e nijat was launched, only 1 has been cleared.

That means the operation in South Waziristan failed to bring results. I don't see any major solution in sight.
 
Does Pakistan have a future? – The Express Tribune

Just imagine if a comatose patient close to you was in the intensive care unit and despite every attempt to revive him, you keep getting reports of organ failure. You have changed many doctors, medicines, methods, even hospitals, but nothing bears fruit. What do you do next? While you pray for the patient, you slowly start convincing yourself to plan for the funeral.

Many compare Pakistan’s present sorry state with the plight of this patient. One minute Osama bin Laden is caught, the next terrorists are blowing themselves in order to kill as many of us as possible. Then, there are reports of drone attacks, targeted attacks on foreigners, an economy in blues, the Abbottabad Commission Report leak and the BBC report on the MQM and its chief. Pakistan’s integrity then is like a military academy. Parts of it keep passing out. Does it have any future then?

When the Hamoodur Rehman Commission Report was published by an Indian newspaper without being officially declassified in Pakistan, there was a lot of hue and cry. Every state has some secrets and the right to keep them, or so it is believed. But that was then. Now, when the Abbottabad Commission’s pearls of wisdom are leaked to a foreign news channel, should we be worried?

Perhaps, a state’s power is not in question here. It has more to do with the relationship between new technologies, a state’s inability to master them and a workforce that can revolt anytime. Those responsible for leaking the report should be found out and punished (I say it out of pure spite. Hey, they could have sold the report to a Pakistani media organisation, but no, they had to leak it to a foreign group). But those who kept the report a secret should also be questioned. The magnus opus created by the Commission hardly merits such secrecy.

The economy again seems a big reason behind our state’s gradual meltdown. When you don’t have money, you start failing in every area of governance. Fortunately, for us, the current government and the opposition have a good understanding of the situation and hence are focusing mainly on the economy. Meanwhile, Pakistan has reached an agreement with the IMF. And while everybody keeps saying that the IMF can only create more trouble and never offer solutions, this government seems confident that this time it will work.

Pakistan’s territorial integrity and unstable democracy are often identified as a few more areas of concern. While it is true that there are two insurgencies going on in the country and Balochistan’s situation is reaching a critical level, simultaneously, there is an effort to win back the parties that want separation. The process hasn’t started yet and there is huge resistance from the status quo forces within the province but even this can be resolved. Also, it must be pointed out that Balochistan is not like East Pakistan where there wasn’t any geographical contiguity. The situation is not yet beyond repair.

Should the biggest worry then be about the war on terror? We have fought this war for over a decade and without a road map. We have to worry about its outcome and the fact that even the outcome can have a long-lasting impact. The government, our deep state and the opposition need to work together to find a solution. Imran Khan’s decision to leave the country at a time when the government wanted to bring all stakeholders on one table to try to find a solution is not encouraging. But if that changes, a focus on finding solutions will help this country a lot.

As for democracy, I have no doubt that it can take care of itself. We have been worrying for no reason. So, where is the doom and gloom situation? Yes, the current situation is bad but it isn’t life threateningly bad. If we maintain course, our friend will soon come out of coma.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 13th, 2013.

Another piece of **** by **** tribune Man Indians need to raise their standards

I believe it is wrong to be hopeless and so pessimistic about the future of Pakistan. I pointed the same thing out Stephen P Cohen's book the future of Pakistan.

Terrorism will fall apart the moment US withdraws from Afghanistan. There will be no reason for the militants to fight, then we can launch a major operation to utterly eliminate the hardcore militants.

I would like to point out that we missed a brilliant opportunity to launch a major operation when Malala was attacked. The entire nation stood behind the army at that time. Still I believe an operation is required in South Waziristan that completely clears the region of militants. Of the 6 tehsils in which operation Rah e nijat was launched, only 1 has been cleared.

That means the operation in South Waziristan failed to bring results. I don't see any major solution in sight.

Operation by Pakistan Army would be a disaster talk to your own people accept those demands which are according to Shariah and isolate those who still want to fight and do not want to listen and than ask Tribals to make them history and they will do it better than you and @Aeronaut @Leader another blunder by PML N is on the way they say they will fight Taliban and talk to Lashkar e Jhangvi instead of doing opposite so get ready for another monster size blunder by these dumbos man they don't have any idea about the situation @nuclearpak
 
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I do not understand why my post makes you get defensive bro. Indians have been coming back to India from the West increasingly over the last 5-10 years. No more is migrating abroad looked at as the Holy grail by the middle class. Sure everyone would like to get a good foreign education if he could manage a good scholarship. But the country pulls its own back, and its not only due to patriotism, or home sickness, or Indian values for growing kids, but because of a better economy and opportunities.

So when we hear of a Pakistani with a foreign degree coming back, it goes against the established trend of most Pakistanis trying to get out of the country one way or the other, or at least secure a decent exit and life abroad for their kids. That is what I meant.

And coming on the back of your elections, after the previous government actually completing its term, its positives to be grabbed, in a largely bleak climate. Nothing else. I was trying to be positive. Because its so easy to be negative, and it gets boring after a while.

therein lies the difference...Pakistanis have always been brand concious and curious about the outside

while you indians were driving clankety old ambassaor cars and having a pair of just 3 pairs of clothes, Pakistanis live beyond their means to drive a corolla and have more than enough clothes to fit a closet

theres a prestige involved with studying overseas...i hope it changes. We have plenty of talent at home (professors) all they need is better salary so they arent forced to teach in GCC or EU/US


as for me -- i opted for LUMS Lahore for MBA . They rejected me; GWU accepted me instead
 
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