Documentary on Indian Navy's Killer Squadron that lit up Karachi in '71

[Hulk]

far from sarcasm.. he was in a merry mood.. expecting the massacre.




Because of their own colonialist attitude.
I say this all over.. India will win again and again as long as there are "lions led by lambs".

you go tofrom bottom, so these lions should have replaced the lambs by now?

 

[sancho]

How many of you still think that this type of attack can again happen? My opinion would be yes, because we still lack air defense cover on maritime side.

I do, but not in the same way. Today IN has Frigats and Destroyers with long range cruise missiles, but more importantly, subs with land attack capability. It's way more likely that IN now would use subs for the first strikes, because the subs has a higher chance to not beeing detected at long distance.
In any war between Pakistan and India, the prime mission for IN will be to cut oil and weapon supplies, because PN is not able to pose a big threat at the open sea. Covered by shore based fighters on the other side, they will try anything to defend Pakistans important harbours, but in this area, the superiority is simply too high for IN.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

awesome documentary , just show's how professional is indian navy , pakistan can never match the standards set by indian navy , at the time of a war we can almost impose a naval blockade on pakistan .

Though the Indian navy is a strong force & has accomplished a lot & i respect that, but i don't agree with you that Pakistan can never match Indian navy , yes at the moment India has a very strong green water navy on its way to a blue water one , India has a very big size coastal area that's good but @ the same time Pakistan also have a 1,046-kilometers (650 mi) coastline which is also more then sufficient enough to have a green water Navy & eventually a blue water one, take for eg: south Korea with a coast line of 1,100 km (680 mi) is a fully recognized green water navy take another eg of a green water navy the Netherlands it has a very small coastline much smaller then Pakistan , south Korea & India but still it has a very strong Navy so the point i am trying to say is that size doesn't matter if a country has a certain amount of land & sea area its more then sufficient enough & especially in the case of India & Pakistan with a ratio of area 339,000 sq mi with a coast line of 1,046 km (650 mi) /12,38,000sq mi with a coast line of 7,517 kilometers (4,700 mi) now since since both this nations are big enough area wise (India) very big massive & (Pakistan) medium large eg both these countries are in multiple lakh's (100,000's) with coastline of 1000 + km's plus/ Pakistan 3 lakh 39,000 sq mi with a coast line of 1,046 km & India 1 lakh 38,000 sq mi with a coast lines of 7,517 kilometers so size in these type of cases can't dominate so there goes the Psychological warfare,
now lets come to the ground realities which is size does not matter's what does matter's are strength & economy,
eg arsenals,ships,weapons,sub's & nuclear subs,air wing, destroyers,frigates corvettes,missile boats,patrol crafts,minesweepers etc in which India is much ahead but that does not means that Pakistan cannot match it yes Pakistan can off course match it for that it has to increase it's arsenals,ships,weapons, subs & nuclear sub's,air wing, ,coastal guard force, sea to air missiles,destroyers,frigates,corvettes,minesweepers,missile boats,patrol craft's etc then it can break any blocked by the Indian navy (strength to strength,tech to tech,strategies to strategies, maneuvers to maneuvers etc) @ present the economy is down so Pakistan must strengthens its economy once that is back on track then a green water navy capable of breaking any blocked should rightfully be Pakistan's top most priorities if in the land & air Pakistan has restored a balance with it nuclear weapons & missile power (something Pakistan did not had in 71) but has it now so by the grace of Allah the Merciful when we have achieved a reckoning power on ground vis-vis India through the nuclear weapon's & missile's (strategic forces) 700,000 active troops, an air force of over 400 fighters etc then a green water navy can also be achieved & insha'Allah it will be achieved

 

[neutral_person]

far from sarcasm.. he was in a merry mood.. expecting the massacre.




Because of their own colonialist attitude.
I say this all over.. India will win again and again as long as there are "lions led by lambs".

In my opinion, the main ability a General of an Army/Navy/Air Force needs is intelligence. A general seldom goes into fights himself, but he is the one who masterminds attacks or defences. So as long as the lamb is smart, it doesnt matter because that is really the main skill you need.

 

[neutral_person]

ahah nice
The greatest thing India has achieved in the last 1000 years, even created a national day for it.
I don't think India will ever do anything as great ever again.

I personally think the greatest thing India has achieved are the 1983 and 2011 world cups. Oh well, to each his own

 

[SQ8]

It is not unusual for defeated side to try to find a scapegoat instead of blaming on procedural failures/systemic issues. Sometimes there is nobody to blame because it was bound to happen anyway.
Some of the easy explanations:
71 defeat on eastern front because Niazi was a traiter/weak leader.
PN chief is a drunk and hence navy could not stop missile boats.
If pakistan cricket team loses to India,it has to be due to match fixing.
And almost everything wrong in pakistan can easily explained by saying "politicians are corrupt"

I can also keep crying woe with me like you guys wish us to do all the time.
But I appreciate those who did fight with valor..
why dont you wholesale ridicule your troops in the 62 fiasco if you have the guts to do so to mine?

It is called escapist mentality.

Its called appreciation.. if I am to accept it as escapist mentality then you must also accept that Indian troops got their behind thrashed by the CHinese and went whining home in 62. I dont think they did.. they were led badly.

^ +1,

The moderator claimed in post #35, "only the PAF Chief showed character...and that reflects in the performance it gave."

The whole E. Pakistan airforce fleet was either destroyed or grounded.

Mod,

I recommend you read THUNDER OVER DACCA: 1971

It was written by Air Vice Marshal (retd.) B.K. Bishnoi ( Commanding Officer of the First Supersonics) for Vayu Aerospace and some excerpts are hosted on BR for public consumption (just web search the name).

I dont need to read those.
Was the air war only over Dhaka? Nothing on the western front?
Are you telling me that the IAF achieved something big by winning against 11 F-86 fighters facing off against 150 Su-7s, Mig-21s, canberras and hunters? you set too low a standard for the IAF then.
The IAF had an edge of 10 to 1 in the east.. and even then in their official history they state the loss of 13 fighters there.
Even then .. the estimate was to last not more than 24 hours.. they fought for 4 days.. and brought down 2 confirmed enemy aircraft. Have the moral decency to give credit where it is due.. if you have any... unless you are like the slimy Pran Chopra.

---------- Post added at 03:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 AM ----------

you go tofrom bottom, so these lions should have replaced the lambs by now?

Should have.. sadly the nepotistic practices of Pakistan's political and military ladders have usually favored those who were either bought up on fictional acts of bravery.. or those that abandoned their posts.

NO real leadership.. save for a few occurances.. was allowed to form a foothold in the armed forces of Pakistan.

 

[jackyy]

I can also keep crying woe with me like you guys wish us to do all the time.
But I appreciate those who did fight with valor..
why dont you wholesale ridicule your troops in the 62 fiasco if you have the guts to do so to mine?


Its called appreciation.. if I am to accept it as escapist mentality then you must also accept that Indian troops got their behind thrashed by the CHinese and went whining home in 62. I dont think they did.. they were led badly.

quoting just to clear the doubts about 62

--80k chinese fought with 10k indians with no back up from military and political system
--nehru told military to give up and leave the post but many soldiers refused to do so.
--Soldiers fighting there didnt have even guns,proper cloths to fight in cold weather.
--nehru initially asked general..are u ready for war??general said ..yes(he was not ready although)
--there was no air force and navy used.

i think political support is necessary,without it nothing can be achieved.our military is run by the donkeys(leaders) not by any strong politcal system.Indian army is undefeatable if properly run under good politicians unlike donkeys in past and now.

 

[deckingraj]

quoting just to clear the doubts about 62

--80k chinese fought with 10k indians with no back up from military and political system
--nehru told military to give up and leave the post but many soldiers refused to do so.
--Soldiers fighting there didnt have even guns,proper cloths to fight in cold weather.
--nehru initially asked general..are u ready for war??general said ..yes(he was not ready although)
--there was no air force and navy used.

i think political support is necessary,without it nothing can be achieved.our military is run by the donkeys(leaders) not by any strong politcal system.Indian army is undefeatable if properly run under good politicians unlike donkeys in past and now.

I am not sure what is the fuss about...a defeat is a defeat..period....we can give as many reasons as we want for the defeat but that will not change the fact...Defeat doesn't mean that our soldiers were coward...In the same token we simply cannot put everything behind the syndrome "Lions led by Lambs"...In the entire context we were defeated by Chinese...The more important point is - Have we learned from our mistakes??? If 67 and 87 is to be accounted then yes...but we can't live in the past..be it glory or shame...we need to move on...feel proud of the glory and learn from the mistakes....past is not going to help in present/future more then that...

 

[jackyy]

I am not sure what is the fuss about...a defeat is a defeat..period....we can give as many reasons as we want for the defeat but that will not change the fact...Defeat doesn't mean that our soldiers were coward...In the same token we simply cannot put everything behind the syndrome "Lions led by Lambs"...In the entire context we were defeated by Chinese...The more important point is - Have we learned from our mistakes??? If 67 and 87 is to be accounted then yes...but we can't live in the past..be it glory or shame...we need to move on...feel proud of the glory and learn from the mistakes....past is not going to help in present/future more then that...

i wrote that indian army is undefeatable if run by strong political sys.62 was political defeat but many considers it as army surrendered and got defeated.if our political masters are ready to show white flag then its not army defeat but its political one.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

and question should be

have our political sys learned from past mistakes or not??
i say no

 

[deckingraj]

i wrote that indian army is undefeatable if run by strong political sys.62 was political defeat but many considers it as army surrendered and got defeated.if our political masters are ready to show white flag then its not army defeat but its political one.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

and question should be

have our political sys learned from past mistakes or not??
i say no

There is no such thing as Military victory. All conflicts are done for achieving some political objectives...Look at all the conflicts of past and present....So in essence outcome of any war is measured by the fact weather the political objectives are met or not. So my friend don't separate the two...b/w saying Indian Army cannot be defeated is sheer patriotism which i respect but will not help. No body is invincible....Even the might US army had to swallow defeat from a tiny Vietnam...so lets keep ourselves honest here...

 

[Bl[i]tZ]

I dont need to read those.
Was the air war only over Dhaka? Nothing on the western front?
Are you telling me that the IAF achieved something big by winning against 11 F-86 fighters facing off against 150 Su-7s, Mig-21s, canberras and hunters? you set too low a standard for the IAF then.
The IAF had an edge of 10 to 1 in the east.. and even then in their official history they state the loss of 13 fighters there.
Even then .. the estimate was to last not more than 24 hours.. they fought for 4 days.. and brought down 2 confirmed enemy aircraft. Have the moral decency to give credit where it is due.. if you have any... unless you are like the slimy Pran Chopra.

Its below my dignity to stoop to your level and attack you personally. I'd have loved to disabuse your claim had you continued this in a more civilized manner. This conversation ends here.

 

[T90TankGuy]

THUNDER OVER DACCA: 1971 was a nice read . a little hard to find but i finally got a copy of it at manneys in Pune. thats one bookstore which has hordes of books to do with the military , they have a section dedicated to it .

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Its below my dignity to stoop to your level and attack you personally. I'd have loved to disabuse your claim had you continued this in a more civilized manner. This conversation ends here.

I personally feel he was just trying to explain very POLITELY even being a MOD.... We should thank him for sharing some of the views and experience from the other side......... No need to get hot on everybody. My opinion, Regards.

 

[SQ8]

Its below my dignity to stoop to your level and attack you personally. I'd have loved to disabuse your claim had you continued this in a more civilized manner. This conversation ends here.

Please.. stay on the high horse of BR ... we are not worthy of your presence here.

 

[God of Death]

Though the Indian navy is a strong force & has accomplished a lot & i respect that, but i don't agree with you that Pakistan can never match Indian navy , yes at the moment India has a very strong green water navy on its way to a blue water one , India has very big size of coastal area that good @ the same time Pakistan also have a 1,046-kilometers (650 mi) coastline which is more then enough to have green water Navy & eventually a blue water one, take for eg: south Korea with a coast line of 1,100 km (680 mi) is a fully recognized green water navy take another eg of a green water navy the Netherlands it has a very small coastline much smaller then Pakistan & south Korea & India but still it has a very strong Navy so the point i am trying to say is that size doesn't matter if a country has a certain amount of land & sea its more then sufficient enough & especially in the case of India & Pakistan with a ratio of area 339,000 sq mi with a coast line of 1,046 km (650 mi)/12,38,000sq mi with a coast line of 7,517 kilometers (4,700 mi) now since since both this nations are big enough (India) very big massive & (Pakistan) medium large area wise eg both these countries are in multiple lakh's (100,000's) with coastline of 1000 + km's plus/ Pakistan 3 lakh 39,000 sq mi with a coast line of 1,046 km & India 12,38,000 coast lines 7,517 kilometers so size in these type of cases cant dominate so there goes the Psychological warfare,
now lets come to ground realities size does not matter what does matter is strength & economy,
eg arsenals,ships,weapons,sub's & subs & neclear subs,air wing, etc in which India is much ahead but that does not means that Pakistan cannot match it yes Pakistan can off course match it for that it has to increase it arsenals,ships,weapons, subs & neclear sub's,air wing, ,coastal guard force, sea to air missiles,destroyers,frigates,corvettes,minesweepers,missile boats,patrol craft's etc then it can break any blocked by the Indian navy @ present the economy is down so Pakistan must strengthens its economy once thats back on track then a green water navy capable of breaking of any blocked should rightfully be Pakistan's top most priorities if in the land & air Pakistan has restored a balance with it nuclear weapons & missile power (something Pakistan did not had in 71) but has it now so by the grace of Allah the Merciful when we have achieved a reckoning power on ground vis-vis India through the nuclear weapon's & missile's (strategic forces) 700,000 active troops, air force of over 400 fighters etc then a green water navy can also be achieved & insha'Allah it will be achieved

1. Its not a religions sermon and as per rules its not allowed.

2. WE HAVE ACHIEVED NUKES???????? When did Bangladesh gets one?? false flag???