Do you think religion is a personal matter ?

[M. Sarmad]

You have contradicted yourself anyway.. khair..

No, I haven't ... Read again, carefully ...
Anyways, do you have anything to say on topic ?

 

[PakSword]

Let people decide what's decent for them.

Muslims have decided to obey the laws of Allah.. I hope you will give them the freedom to choose what they want..

 

[Joe Shearer]

Even if law allows nudity not many will walk around nude in public.

The Oxygen you inhale.

Yes, well, these Jain munis do. They are more frequently to be seen in eastern India, as Rajgir is a major pilgrimage centre for them. Trust me, it's a disconcerting sight.

 

[Mage]

Muslims have decided to obey the laws of Allah.. I hope you will give them the freedom to choose what they want..

Definitely....let people chose to obey what they want to obey. But the ones don't want to obey should not be forced to obey. Your Burqa won't bother me if my nudity doesn't bother you.

 

[Black Mamba1]

Similarly, one can wear whatever he wishes inside his/ her own home (or even don't wear anything at all and live like animals), but when he/ she comes out in public, he must follow what majority wants..

Is this applicable to all ? ...or when non Muslims are in Islamic country... if this is true for all then China banning public prayer, fasting etc French banning veil ... some Indian states banning beef ...all are right in the name of "what majority wants".... why we condemn those ?

 

[Mage]

Trust me, it's a disconcerting sight.

You sayin something?

 

[PakSword]

No, I haven't ... Read again, carefully ...

The Holy Prophet (pbuh) didn't give any "political system" to the Muslims, he didn't even appoint a successor ....

As for Hadith, there are contradictions ... Some say he appointed Imam Ali (AS) as his successor ....
Others say that he implicitly appointed Abu Bakr (RA) ...

Personally, I believe Imam Ali A.S was his true successor ... Imamat is superior to Khilafat anyway

Anyway, lets not discuss it further..

 

[Joe Shearer]

You sayin something?

Huh! Safely seated. You haven't encountered him striding along, umm, manfully.

Jokes apart, they are very serious about their religion, these Jains; the first time one of them contacted me to ask if he had offended in any way, and asking for forgiveness, I was thoroughly discombobulated.

 

[Mage]

Is this applicable to all ? ...or when non Muslims are in Islamic country... if this is true for all then China banning public prayer, fasting etc French banning veil ... some Indian states banning beef ...all are right in the name of "what majority wants".... why we condemn those ?

That's the problem with Mullah bunch. They will force others in their custom when they are in power. And cry foul when others try to do the same when others are in power. Saudi don't allow religious places for other religion in their country but keeps funding mosques in Europe and those mosques reeks wahabism.

 

[PakSword]

Is this applicable to all ? ...or when non Muslims are in Islamic country... if this is true for all then China banning public prayer, fasting etc French banning veil ... some Indian states banning beef ...all are right in the name of "what majority wants".... why we condemn those ?

That's right.. if a Muslim lives in a majority of Non-Muslims, who have laws that restrict him to perform certain duties.. he should migrate. That's what our Prophet (PBUH) did.

 

[war&peace]

If I understand you correctly your saying that Islam requires the accomodation of the personal and public then that means it not only requires the individual to submit but also the society to endorse. If that is true then by defnition it places all Muslims living in the west and or non Muslim societies in a bind. I should think a mullah somewhere ought to give a fatwa that no right minded Muslim should migrate to a non Muslim majority region/countries as that act trammels his/her ability to practice their faith.

Or to put it bluntly a Muslim can only live in a non secular state that supports or reinforces Islamic precepts. If this is case then I along with @war&peace and million of others Muslim are in right dodgy position.

@PakSword

Mate, I'm trying to stay out of this discussion because there are a lot of mindless and jahil trolls.
Well Islam is a universal way of life and it spans from individual's private life to the communal, state and international scales.

 

[Divergent]

A person should be concerned with themselves and their own affairs.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Muslims have decided to obey the laws of Allah.. I hope you will give them the freedom to choose what they want..

Indeed, unless and to the extent that they object to others following their own 'laws'.

For instance, a Muslim using perfectly legitimate zabiha but using it in an apartment rented from a Jain landlord would be giving enormous pain to his landlord. Just to illustrate the point, Jains don't eat vegetables that grow underground because of the risk that some insect might be dragged up and into the cooking pot with it. So, no carrots, onions, garlic, beetroot, radish, any of these; forget about killing animals or fish.

This has been a major social problem in India because of the fear that Muslims, Bengalis, Malayalis, will eat meat and fish in their rented apartments. Fifty years ago, my uncle and aunt faced suspicious looks and carefully blank expressions when they went house-hunting in Mylapore, a concentration of Brahmins in Madras. Today, not because of any ban, but because of sympathy for my landlord's feelings, I don't cook meat or fish in my rented apartment. He never asked, he never put any restrictions, but I feel under a moral obligation not to pain him in any way.

Is this applicable to all ? ...or when non Muslims are in Islamic country... if this is true for all then China banning public prayer, fasting etc French banning veil ... some Indian states banning beef ...all are right in the name of "what majority wants".... why we condemn those ?

I didn't want to butt in, as this is a rare thread where people are discussing a sensitive subject with the greatest mutual courtesy and excellent manners, but feel it needed to observe that there is such a thing as the tyranny of the majority. It boils down to the individual; the rights of an individual must be preserved, not so much as the rights of entire communities. Those latter rights must take a lower position to individual liberties and rights.

Just my thruppence.

 

[PakSword]

For instance, a Muslim using perfectly legitimate zabiha but using it in an apartment rented from a Jain landlord would be giving enormous pain to his landlord. Just to illustrate the point, Jains don't eat vegetables that grow underground because of the risk that some insect might be dragged up and into the cooking pot with it. So, no carrots, onions, garlic, beetroot, radish, any of these; forget about killing animals or fish.

Then Jains have problem with everyone.. it is their problem, not a problem of Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs etc.. They shouldn't live in a neighborhood where majority of other religions live if they get offended...

Today, not because of any ban, but because of sympathy for my landlord's feelings, I don't cook meat or fish in my rented apartment. He never asked, he never put any restrictions, but I feel under a moral obligation not to pain him in any way.

That's nice of you.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Anyway, lets not discuss it further..

Yes, no point in discussing it with you anymore as you deliberately ignored what I had said in my previous posts .. You are arguing just for the sake of it :

As per the mainstream Sunni belief, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) didn't appoint any successor explicitly ....

No verse in Quran, No Sahih Hadith in this regard

......