Do you think religion is a personal matter ?

[Indus Pakistan]

Is'nt it funny that some of the most rabid religious nuts actually tend to hide away in the most secular nations in the world, While drum beating about how citizens of the apparent countries of their heritage have to bear the fundamentalist dogma on behalf of them ?

Tell me about it.

 

[Hold up]

Pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[TMA]

How idiotic of you to compare Pakistan (a country just 70 years young) to Japan, Germany etc etc!

You are a fool who can't have a logical discussion.

Pakistan was founded in the name of Islam, for the muslims to live their lives according to the guidance from Allah. The only thing that unites this 98% muslim majority nation is Islam, and nothing else! The day we discard our foundation, we will cease to exist.

Valentines day means shit to us! We are successfully surviving, and that is the only thing that matters. We have our freedom and we will defend it with empty stomachs if we have to. Who the F are you to judge eh, are you feeding us?

We have some issues but these will be resolved when those in the government start acting as per the guidance.

But you are too damn thick skinned and a bigoted atheist to comprehend ANY of that!

There are other things that are common...but yes that is the GLUE.

Rubbish. Distilled garbage. British India which bundled Pakhtuns with Tamil Hindu with Ladakhi Buddhist with Burman Mongols of Myanmar and everything inbetween subsisted for nearly two centuries. That should tell what is and more then often is the reason why a group stays together. State, institutional, economic and military force.

And as regards religion from what we see today religions is the single biggest cause for divisive forces and terrorism. The whole array of radical religious forces with multitude of mullahs with multitude of iterations of Islam all fighting each other is proof of that.

Did 1971 Banga incident not slightly wake you up???

Bangladesh was too far away and too different for Pakistan to keep united. (If Pakistan really did follow religion perhaps this would not be the case). Otherwise Pakistan should have joined up with other Muslim countries. However this does not mean to discard (whatever dwindling traces of) religion from Pakistan. To do this would be very detrimental...then the only thing of any substance to keep Pakistan together would be "force" and that is not a good thing.... of course with the passage of time maybe another 50-100 years it will be easier as the common Pakistani identity will become more cemented... something that the enemies of Pakistan hate with every passing year...

And also Bangladesh was never really in پ ا ک س ت ا ن.

 

[HeinzG]

The only thing that gave legitmacy to British colonization was guns, lots of guns. Rest was just gloss.

Mughals also had guns too. What made the difference was that British was disciplined than Indians. Their army followed orders where Indians didn't.

You really are ignorant!

Look at the birth of Pakistan, what we started with, what we went through (we survived 3 wars with India, an opponent 7 times bigger, and humiliated the mighty USSR in Afghanistan) and where we are now! Just when we were getting economically stable in 60's (read about us in the news of that decade), we had a war imposed on us.

Find another young nation like us, who have survived despite all that we went through and the odds against us. You will find none like us!

Stop asking stupid questions.

If we are nothing then what are you doing on this forum?

Don't take too much credit for the Soviet debacle in Afghanistan. For one they were clueless on what they were doing there and the Afgan mountains. Pakistan simply supplied arms to the Mujaheddins. Would you think Pakistan had any chance if Soviet Union decided to take on you?

 

[Verve]

Rubbish. Distilled garbage. British India which bundled Pakhtuns with Tamil Hindu with Ladakhi Buddhist with Burman Mongols of Myanmar and everything inbetween subsisted for nearly two centuries. That should tell what is and more then often is the reason why a group stays together. State, institutional, economic and military force.

And as regards religion from what we see today religions is the single biggest cause for divisive forces and terrorism. The whole array of radical religious forces with multitude of mullahs with multitude of iterations of Islam all fighting each other is proof of that.

Did 1971 Banga incident not slightly wake you up???

You can try you theories out about a secular Pakistan in your own warped mind, it ain't happening in reality! Get Real!

 

[waz]

Don't take too much credit for the Soviet debacle in Afghanistan. For one they were clueless on what they were doing there and the Afgan mountains. Pakistan simply supplied arms to the Mujaheddins. Would you think Pakistan had any chance if Soviet Union decided to take on you?

The SSG, and Pakistani military establishment trained the Afghan guerrillas, and in some cases fought alongside them. It wasn't simply a case of handing over a gun with a smile and telling them to fight. Had that been the case they would have been decimated by the Soviets. The CIA, SAS also performed such role i.e. as trainers.

 

[TMA]

You can try you theories out about a secular Pakistan in your own warped mind, it ain't happening in reality! Get Real!

But Pakistan is already quite secular...look at her economic and banking system, look at her political system...

 

[Verve]

Pakistan simply supplied arms to the Mujaheddins.

Just like we supplied Sri Lanka arms ONLY!?

But Pakistan is already quite secular...look at her economic and banking system, look at her political system...

And we are paying the price for it, a heavy price. Economics and banking system needs to change. Riba based banking systems needs to go.

Certainly, I am idiotic to compare countries that got demolished to the ground and one that got nuked twice to Pakistan

Yes you are! Japan wasn't demolished to the ground, only two cities out of many were! But you are not smart enough to know that. Japan was also the country that conquered many other countries, did Pakistan ever do that?

Japan of 47 and Pakistan of 47, you really are a class act to compare the two!

I asked you to find a young country like Pakistan, and you are referencing to countries that had empires and history of hundreds of years.

Heck Yugoslavia, a country that came into being in 1918, didn't last ... despite being in the Secular Atheist Europe!

 

[HeinzG]

Just like we supplied Sri Lanka arms ONLY!?

What ever the difference in opinion between us. We as a nation is eternally grateful for the Pakistani aid in 1999.

Yes you are! Japan wasn't demolished to the ground, only two cities out of many were! But you are not smart enough to know that. Japan was also the country that conquered many other countries, did Pakistan ever do that?

Japan of 47 and Pakistan of 47, you really are a class act to compare the two!

I asked you to find a young country like Pakistan, and you are referencing to countries that had empires and history of hundreds of years.

Heck Yugoslavia, a country that came into being in 1918, didn't last ... despite being in the Secular Atheist Europe!

If you want to compare Pakistan with a country, why don't you take Israel for an example. Similar yet poles apart.

 

[Verve]

What ever the difference in opinion between us. We as a nation is eternally grateful for the Pakistani aid in 1999.

Ironic isn't it that your countrymen come here and attack the very system that induced Pakistan to help a nation like yours?

If you want to compare Pakistan with a country, why don't you take Israel for an example. Similar yet poles apart.

Now you are talking, to some extent. The only two countries in the world that have religion as the foundation for creation.

However the differences are large. Zionists had full backing from the West and killed the majority. No such thing happened in Pakistan, there was no armed rising for Pakistan. We never had such patrons who armed us to teeth and gave us money annually for the holocaust and whatnot for development. Israel came into existence from the deal with the zionist bankers and British (to save them from Hitler's onslaught) turning US (an ally of Germany until then) against Germany. Pakistan had no such support. Israel is backed by zionist banking elite, do we have such a thing?

There is no country like Pakistan.

 

[Jaanbaz]

The ruling elite in any Islamic country hate these laws because it hurts them in the long run..

The ruling elite is not scared of any law because no law applies to them. You're delusional if you think ''Islamic'' laws would bring justice in Pakistani society because the people who are supposed to enforce the laws are also corrupt.

 

[HeinzG]

Ironic isn't it that your countrymen come here and attack the very system that induced Pakistan to help a nation like yours?

Well we like somethings of Pakistan. The rest we don't like. I think we have a right to criticize even a friend.

Now you are talking, to some extent. The only two countries in the world that have religion as the foundation for creation.

However the differences are large. Zionists had full backing from the West and killed the majority. No such thing happened in Pakistan, there was no armed rising for Pakistan. We never had such patrons who armed us to teeth and gave us money annually for the holocaust and whatnot for development. Israel came into existence from the deal with the zionist bankers and British (to save them from Hitler's onslaught) turning US (an ally of Germany until then) against Germany. Pakistan had no such support. Israel is backed by zionist banking elite, do we have such a thing?

There is no country like Pakistan.

Pakistan had backing of UK then US and finally China. So I don't think you people are different on that ground.

If Israel had the backing on the Western governments how come no one came to their aid in 1948? They fought with what ever they had now didn't they?

 

[Falcon29]

How [you] adhere to Islam is personal. Nobody has the right to [force] you to pray five times a day or keep a beard.

However, Islam is a socio-political phenomenon. A predominantly Muslim society should have an Islamic outlook but receptive to best practices in general.

@Well.wisher

Correct.

 

[waz]

Third thread to be closed today, due to people going off-topic beyond belief. Please learn to post to the topic.