Do you have any questions about China?

[Echo_419]

i don't want to insult anybody,I apologize if my words hurt some of you.My view is the Indians usually stand on the Western side.

& when we have taken western side
We are Neutral

 

[Viet]

amazing! you have to live in a German community to help your fluency in learning the language. congratulations!

Well, how about developing the SCS area jointly! we have been proposing that for some time but there has been impasse on your government!

Due to my limited knowledge, China made a proposal which cannot be accepted by us. We can agree on cooperations in tapping oil/gas resources, but we cannot share the view of China that it insists on sovereignty over the entire SCS!

I think a possible solution may be as follows - my 10-point-"peace plan":
- based on the current status quo
- based on the international laws
- based on Code of conducts
- based on common sense
- based on the wish of both sides wanting a peaceful solution

Here is the plan:

1# China accepts VN´s sovereignty of 200 nautical miles off coast of Vietnam (EEZ).
2# Vietnam accepts China´s sovereignty over Paracel Islands and adjacent waters up to 15 nautical miles.
3# China accepts VN´s sovereignty over the currently occupied islands of Spratlys and adjacent waters up to 15 nautical miles.
4# Vietnam accepts China´s sovereignty over the currently occupied islands of Spratlys and adjacent waters up to 15 nautical miles.
5# The South China Sea will be divided into two halfs (see image - the line below Paracels): China controls the north part, Vietnam the south part.

6# Vietnam and China guarantee freedom of navigation to all nations.
7# Vietnam and China agree on jointed development in the SCS exluding the 4 parts under 1-4, we share profits.
8# Vietnam and China keep agreements secret for 50 years to avoid nationalistic sentiment.
9# Vietnam and China agree on jointed patrol and military drills at the common sea border at regulary basis.
10# Vietnam and China agree on a friendship treaty for 50 years.

I believe Vietnam can live with this. How about China?

 

[ahfatzia]

No deal. China can live with #1 to #4, and Vietnam should be satisfy with #4. As for #5 it's a definitely no no because north of the said line is already under China's control and is inherent sphere anyway and besides a 50 year secret agreement simply won't work because the other 4 players would know about it as soon as Vietnam begins to develop the area for oil/gas. China will not accept Vietnam hegemony on the SCS below the said line period.

I think China, with some good diplomacy by a combined ASEAN would accept 1) Everyone keeps the islands they presently occupied with negotiated EEZ and 2) co-developments the whole SCS.

My friend, your proposal is way too much in Vietnam favor and you neglect the other 4 players.

 

[KRAIT]

^ Not necessarily, if you ignore few and remain responsive to sane posts, Indians don't have any problem. Problem is Indians are attacked by most of the members from other nations which adds up anger and it vents out. There are idiots from every country. Bashing goes both ways and senior members like you have seen the reality. You know what is said by many members and people turns blind eye if its against India.

Don't respond to those flame posts and be neutral and oppose anything derogatory. I think things will be like what Chinese Dragon told me when Chinese defended Indians in many threads. He changed as trolling by Indians started.

 

[Viet]

No deal. China can live with #1 to #4, and Vietnam should be satisfy with #4. As for #5 it's a definitely no no because north of the said line is already under China's control and is inherent sphere anyway and besides a 50 year secret agreement simply won't work because the other 4 players would know about it as soon as Vietnam begins to develop the area for oil/gas. China will not accept Vietnam hegemony on the SCS below the said line period.

I think China, with some good diplomacy by a combined ASEAN would accept 1) Everyone keeps the islands they presently occupied with negotiated EEZ and 2) co-developments the whole SCS.

My friend, your proposal is way too much in Vietnam favor and you neglect the other 4 players.

Think again!
China and Vietnam settled the border dispute after 10 years of negotiation. AND the exact border line is not disclosed and kept secretly! I understand we cannot reglect other claimants, but they are not major players in this GREAT game.
If it comes to an agreement with China, Vietnam will seek solutions with the rest.

 

[shuttler]

Due to my limited knowledge, China made a proposal which cannot be accepted by us. We can agree on cooperations in tapping oil/gas resources, but we cannot share the view of China that it insists on sovereignty over the entire SCS!

I think a possible solution may be as follows - my 10-point-"peace plan":
- based on the current status quo
- based on the international laws
- based on Code of conducts
- based on common sense
- based on the wish of both sides wanting a peaceful solution

Here is the plan:

1# China accepts VN´s sovereignty of 200 nautical miles off coast of Vietnam (EEZ).
2# Vietnam accepts China´s sovereignty over Paracel Islands and adjacent waters up to 15 nautical miles.
3# China accepts VN´s sovereignty over the currently occupied islands of Spratlys and adjacent waters up to 15 nautical miles.
4# Vietnam accepts China´s sovereignty over the currently occupied islands of Spratlys and adjacent waters up to 15 nautical miles.
5# The South China Sea will be divided into two halfs (see image - the line below Paracels): China controls the north part, Vietnam the south part.
6# Vietnam and China guarantee freedom of navigation to all nations.
7# Vietnam and China agree on jointed development in the SCS exluding the 4 parts under 1-4, we share profits.
8# Vietnam and China keep agreements secret for 50 years to avoid nationalistic sentiment.
9# Vietnam and China agree on jointed patrol and military drills at the common sea border at regulary basis.
10# Vietnam and China agree on a friendship treaty for 50 years.

I believe Vietnam can live with this. How about China?

History is also a factor for consideration.

1 to 5: I'll leave them for the diplomats of the 2 countries to sort out
6: there is no problems with freedom of navigation whatsoever. so I would maintain status quo. no need to make a special guarantee unless the EEZ rules are violated
7. that is what we proposed which was set to work in favour of Vietnam under our rules
8. the secretive agreement wont work because there are other nations involved I am afraid and let's not give a time limit to irrational conducts.
9. I dont have problems with joint military drills, but joint patrolling is an administrative function which links to sovereignty
10: our doors of friendship with Vietnam are open

 

[shuttler]

^ Not necessarily, if you ignore few and remain responsive to sane posts, Indians don't have any problem. Problem is Indians are attacked by most of the members from other nations which adds up anger and it vents out. There are idiots from every country. Bashing goes both ways and senior members like you have seen the reality. You know what is said by many members and people turns blind eye if its against India.

Don't respond to those flame posts and be neutral and oppose anything derogatory. I think things will be like what Chinese Dragon told me when Chinese defended Indians in many threads. He changed as trolling by Indians started.

I very seldom or never involve in topics where my country is not related. But there are far too many threads and comments made by posters with indian flags (or suspected indians with foreign flags) who have brought anti-China sentiments into the discussion on forums, and many times out of nowhere (off-topic rants) that sustain my observation...(plus your media and some hi profile spokesmen too)!

 

[ahfatzia]

Think again!
China and Vietnam settled the border dispute after 10 years of negotiation. AND the exact border line is not disclosed and kept secretly! I understand we cannot reglect other claimants, but they are not major players in this GREAT game.
If it comes to an agreement with China, Vietnam will seek solutions with the rest.

Actually the secret agreement, if there's one, is immaterial here. I believe China simply will not accept Vietnam's domination south of the line you mentioned for obvious reason. Besides the oil/gas this area is a rich fishing ground for million of fishermen from various countries so a co-development is as far as China can go.

One thing I can't understand is why wouldn't Vietnam be satisfied with her current occupations if all the other 5 players agree. I don't want to flame the issue here but it's all because of Vietnam policy in SCS that makes China responds strongly. The situation further muddled when Obama issued his Asia Pivot and that leave China no choices but stands her ground on SCS. Again, China will not accept anyone's hegemony over her immediate trading lifeline, including the US.

 

[Viet]

Let me presice the point
10# Vietnam and China agree on a friendship treaty for 50 years.

This friendship treaty is a non-aggression pact!
- China and Vietnam agree not to join any other country or pact that aims against one of the parties
- inform other party of any major military movements including sea, land and air at the earliest possible
- provide creditable reasons for any military buildup at the border between two countries

 

[shuttler]

Let me presice the point
10# Vietnam and China agree on a friendship treaty for 50 years.

This friendship treaty is a non-aggression pact!
- China and Vietnam agree not to join any other country or pact that aims against one of the parties
- inform other party of any major military movements including sea, land and air at the earliest possible
- provide creditable reasons for any military buildup at the border between two countries

The proposition appears to bring our 2 countries closer than economic ties. Has Vietnam sorted out your disputes with Cambodia, Laos ... yet?

 

[KRAIT]

I very seldom or never involve in topics where my country is not related. But there are far too many threads and comments made by posters with indian flags (or suspected indians with foreign flags) who have brought anti-China sentiments into the discussion on forums, and many times out of nowhere (off-topic rants) that sustain my observation...(plus your media and some hi profile spokesmen too)!

Can understand.....I hate them too...important and my fav. threads gets ruined by these rants.

 

[Viet]

The proposition appears to bring our 2 countries closer than economic ties. Has Vietnam sorted out your disputes with Cambodia, Laos ... yet?

As far as I know there is no really any issue between Vietnam and Laos, and with Cambodia the relationship is getting better than ever before. Let me post one article here.



King's visit to strengthen ties, co-operation with Cambodia
Updated September, 24 2012 09:49:22 | Vietnam News

HA NOI (VNS)— Cambodian King Norodom Sihamoni's State visit to Viet Nam, scheduled to begin today, will likely elevate further the two countries' neighbourliness, traditional friendship and multi-dimensional cooperation.

The three-day visit, which begins today and comes at the invitation of President Truong Tan Sang, is the fourth made by King Norodom Sihamoni since he came to the throne in 2004.

The two countries are celebrating the Friendship Year 2012 and the 45th anniversary of their diplomatic ties.

Since the establishment of diplomatic ties on June 24, 1967, Viet Nam and Cambodia have been constantly strengthening their political relations following the motto "good neighbourliness, traditional friendship, all-round cooperation and long-term sustainability".

Visits by high-ranking leaders were exchanged on a regular basis, most recently by Vietnamese Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong in December 2011 and Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in April 2012, as well as one by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen and National Assembly Chairman Heng Samrin.

The two sides have organised various conferences together, such as the 12th session of the Viet Nam-Cambodia Joint Committee in August 2011, the 7th Conference on Cooperation and Development between border provinces of Viet Nam and Cambodia in HCM City in March 2012, and the 3rd Viet Nam-Cambodia Investment Cooperation Conference in Kien Giang Province in June.

Security and defence cooperation between the two countries has been strengthened, helping to maintain stability and social order along their common border and prevent trans-national crimes.

Bilateral economic linkage, trade and investment have been growing rapidly. Two-way trade exceeded US$2.8 billion in 2011 and is expected to hit $3.4 billion in 2012.

Viet Nam has poured over $2.4 billion into 112 projects in Cambodia, focusing on rubber planting, mining, oil and gas exploration, energy, telecommunications, finance and banking.

Viet Nam has also continued to lend a helping hand to Cambodia in training its workforce in human resources and providing medical check-ups and treatment for Cambodian people.

The two countries' relevant agencies are also planting markers along the common border. So far, 239 positions have been decided for the planting of 289 border markers and 703 km of the border line has been demarcated.

The two sides pledged to complete the work as soon as possible. — VNS
King's visit to strengthen ties, co-operation with Cambodia - Politics & Laws | Politics, Business, Economy, Society, Life, Sports - VietNam News - VietNam News

 

[Joe Shearer]

I very seldom or never involve in topics where my country is not related. But there are far too many threads and comments made by posters with indian flags (or suspected indians with foreign flags) who have brought anti-China sentiments into the discussion on forums, and many times out of nowhere (off-topic rants) that sustain my observation...(plus your media and some hi profile spokesmen too)!

Don't worry, high profile spokesmen may not think you sufficiently important to be watched. Say whatever you want; there are moderators to enforce the rules, those are not enforced by others.

 

[Viet]

Actually the secret agreement, if there's one, is immaterial here. I believe China simply will not accept Vietnam's domination south of the line you mentioned for obvious reason. Besides the oil/gas this area is a rich fishing ground for million of fishermen from various countries so a co-development is as far as China can go.

One thing I can't understand is why wouldn't Vietnam be satisfied with her current occupations if all the other 5 players agree. I don't want to flame the issue here but it's all because of Vietnam policy in SCS that makes China responds strongly. The situation further muddled when Obama issued his Asia Pivot and that leave China no choices but stands her ground on SCS. Again, China will not accept anyone's hegemony over her immediate trading lifeline, including the US.

Well, China has no choice but seeks a solution with Vietnam. We will not let the entire sea including shipping lanes to be controlled by China alone. The recent steps we did were necessary to strengthen our stance and defence in the region.

 

[Sasquatch]

Can we please stick to the topic ? the SCS discussions have a thread for it.