Do I have the right to remain Ahmadi?

[Spring Onion]

In other thread also you said that

Thanks for accepting the truth and not living in denial.

and you still dint get that i dint deny presence of bangladeshis in India.

 

[Dubious]

Australian passport doesn't have religion coloumn, so there is no way for anyone to find out. They look like any other Pakistani, and everything else about them including their name looks/sound Muslim.

exactly...so they shouldnt have problem going to Saudi with any other passport coz there is no way to find out...

 

[Pakistanisage]

Pakistan and its Citizens should pay attention to the Minority Bashing.

Let me just say this to the Patriotic Pakistanis.

Every time you go after a Pakistani Minority or violate their basic human rights, you remove a brick from the Foundation of the Building called Pakistan.

Please reflect on that thought.

 

[Dubious]

Although - Ahmadis can explain their belief better but what i know is that Ahmadis themselves are divided into two groups -

The Lahori group call themselves reformists and agree that there can't be any prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) except Jesus and Ghulam Ahmad was Mujadid (reformist).

Other group believe that Ghulam Ahmad was Rasool/Messenger (not a Nabi who brings new laws) and as per their interpretation of verse 33:40 - they say that the verse doesn't say Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was last messenger and Prophet (Rasool & Nabi) - but It says Muhammad (PBUH) is the messenger/Rasool and final Prophet/Nabi. So, there can be Messengers/Rasools after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but there can't be any Nabi/Prophet (law-bearing).

That is a play of words! However, all Rasool were Nabi but not all Nabi were Rasool!

Rasool is one who brings a new set of laws or orders...while a Nabi is a Warner...if there are no more Rasools there should be no more Rasool not the other way! So if they allow a Rasool...he is 1st a Nabi (chosen warner) then he gets law and becomes a Rasool (msgr)

Pakistan and its Citizens should pay attention to the Minority Bashing.

Let me just say this to the Patriotic Pakistanis.

Every time you go after a Pakistani Minority or violate their basic human rights, you remove a brick from the Foundation of the Building called Pakistan.

Please reflect on that thought.

That is true bashing minorities is wrong...but here we are talking about a group making changes under a banner and refuses to remove the banner after the transformation!

Its like you cross breed 2 different varieties of mangoes and get a new variety but still want to call the new variety the same name as the mother

 

[livingdead]

Yeah i live in the UK. One of my best friends in College was Indian Punjabi. I have also met and known many Sikhs too. In my view Sikhs are one of the most humble people yet also very brave.

may be not punjabi sikh coz humility and punjabi dont get along well..

 

[Dubious]

how about we ALL -- regardless of our levels of religiousity or religious beliefs - view eachother as PAKISTANIS first?

on that day - we'll be the strongest country in the world

Fair enough! I had gone with that ...but the title went do I have the right to remain Ahmadi not Pakistani...

 

[Emmie]

Guys stick to the topic, we have dedicated threads for chitchat!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Do you know that Gandhi supported Two-Nation theory much before Nehru. His tantrums on eve of Partition was a drama.

C. R. formula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thanks for sharing this dear I will read it when I have time
for now I want to focus on Pakistani version of the "Dalits" .. my apologies for the lack of term and dont mean any disrespect to any faith or nationality.

the way this faith is hounded, harassed and persecuted makes our cries over Kashmir and Palestine really hollow and fake.

once again let me clarify that using the Dalit term is only meant as an example of what an Ahmedi family is forced to face in the Pakistani society just like we the land of pure always mock Indians over the treatment of Dalits in India.

and finally while we are at it.

our current radicalization in the society and the spawn of Taliban has nothing to do with our 2 nation theory and decision of making Pakistan. this is a global phenomenon of recent times that is spread from Syria to Malaysia where ever the peto Dollar money can reach.

now if a Modi-infested Indian decides to curse Quaid e Azam over the sectarian and religious war in Syria by FSA and abduction of girls in Nigeria by Bako Haram and the massacre in Bali by Jamah Islamiyah then I can only pray for his mental treatment.

long story short, the talibaniszation or wahabification of Pakistan has started when Saudis went global and far more ambitious in their drive to export their version of Islam that has been eagerly devoured by Deobandi followers in Pakistan that make up the entire terrorist structure in rank and file.

blaming our founders over the creation of Pakistan and using current terrorism as an example is also a false argument because the groups that have taken up arms against Pakistani state and the Islamist parties that justify their actions and provide a political and intellectual support were the ones that declared Pakistan Napakistan and our founders as Kafirs.

Ahmedis in Pakistan will not get any relief or justice until a true leader emerges who is brave enough to tell the entire population to stop this barbarity. poor Shabaz Sherif who sympathized with Ahmedis after their mosque was raided by TTP terrorists and he used the words brothers with the prefix "Ahmedis" and he was criticized by heartless religious thugs and he had to take his words back. what a tragedy what a disgrace as if putting more salt on the wounds of the families of the victims.

a khalifa of claimed jesus messiah wishes people to see him and its some kind of blessing which Pakistanis are missing? again I repeat my questions for the third time, what is the purpose of your religion? what you think of other muslims who dont believe in your jesus; the messiah? and lastly, what difference does it make if you are declared qaddiyani when ahamdis have no political or religious designs in their objective like you said it yourself?

strange question I find it. why corner him? whats the purpose of your question?
as a citizen of Pakistan he has the right to live in peace and security.. is that too much to ask?

what is the reason for your faith then?
let me answer mine.. mine is to believe in Allah and His Holy Prophet PBUH and try to live the life as per the teachings.
and exactly in the way that doesnt mean shoving my faith down the throat of other people and let other people live in peace just as I want for myself



imagine you and I are in Indian Gujrat marched out of a shop or a bus and surrounded by yellow bandanna's wearing testosterone filled Hindu youth asking the same question..?
for I part I will be speechless and will know that whatever I will try to say wont be audible due to the chants and shouts of the mob that will most probably beat me to death.

 

[Sugarcane]

That is a play of words! However, all Rasool were Nabi but not all Nabi were Rasool!
Rasool is one who brings a new set of laws or orders...while a Nabi is a Warner...if there are no more Rasools there should be no more Rasool not the other way! So if they allow a Rasool...he is 1st a Nabi (chosen warner) then he gets law and becomes a Rasool (msgr)

You are confusing the meaning - Rasool is Messenger / Non-law bearing prophet and Nabi is Law bearing prophet not other way. Regarding interpretation - every sect have twisted interpretations to suite their agendas - It's not exclusive to Ahmadis.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Its like you cross breed 2 different varieties of mangoes and get a new variety but still want to call the new variety the same name as the mother

nice analogy

recall how the biggest hypocrite and conspirator against Muhammad PBUH known as Abu Sufyan became a Muslim
he recited

and that was that

do Ahmedis recite the same Kalima? if yes then they are Muslims... whatever they have added afterwords in their belief might make them bad Muslim but not Kafir in a classic and clear example as above

even the biggest hypocrite and conspirator Abdullah bin Abi was not declared a Kafir although he did his best to harm Muslims the most he could

Muhammad PBUH is Khatim' an Nabyyen so that pretty much rules out any follow up Nabi as far as Islam is concernd and since Muhammad PBUH completed the deen and brought Quran so its a done deal (as a precondition to being Nabi).

what I have learnt and seen over years is that we shout the loudest and decide ourselves what Ahemdi faith is and dont let them speak. and then we declare ourselves to be lovers of Muhammad PBUH which automatically gives us the right to persecute these people.

do you see fallacy of the argument and misplaces boast? if Muhammad PBUH was alive he would have cringed with repulsion to see how much terror and hatred he have thrown on others in the name of

LOVE

for the holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH


and by the way.. all this debate is irrelevant..

what right does anyone have to make the life of another Pakistani a living hell? who has not done anything to him?


Taliban , LeJ, TTP, Al Qaeda ... brothers? because they are Muslims....

how rich,.



and then we lament why everyone mocks , hates and curses Islam in the world
(we will never find out will we?)

 

[Leader]

strange question I find it. why corner him? whats the purpose of your question?
as a citizen of Pakistan he has the right to live in peace and security.. is that too much to ask?

what is the reason for your faith then?
let me answer mine.. mine is to believe in Allah and His Holy Prophet PBUH and try to live the life as per the teachings.
and exactly in the way that doesnt mean shoving my faith down the throat of other people and let other people live in peace just as I want for myself



imagine you and I are in Indian Gujrat marched out of a shop or a bus and surrounded by yellow bandanna's wearing testosterone filled Hindu youth asking the same question..?
for I part I will be speechless and will know that whatever I will try to say wont be audible due to the chants and shouts of the mob that will most probably beat me to death.

Irfan this is not being debated here, there is no doubt about it, we are all equal citizens of Pakistan... I am just questioning to know what they actually belief..

let me tell a verse from the prophet of the lord, the second coming of the jesus, the Messiah Hazrat Mirza Ahmad Qadiyani sahib, for you and your alike faithful muzlims...

So said the promised Messiah as "The one who rejects me rejects Him who has sent me" ( Fath e Islam)

Half of family was slaughtered on the very question, so dont tell me about what faith I have, when I am asked... those who adopt sectarian faiths are idiots, be it shia, ahmadi, sunni, wahabi or whatever... they all spread hatred and division...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Irfan this is not being debated here, there is no doubt about it, we are all equal citizens of Pakistan... I am just questioning to know what they actually belief..

Half of family was slaughtered on the very question, so dont tell me about what faith I have, when I am asked... those who adopt sectarian faiths are idiots, be it shia, ahmadi, sunni, wahabi or whatever... they all spread hatred and division...

I dont follow Ahmedia faith so I cant comment on the said verse without knowing the background and its authenticity and relvance.

by the way asking that (faith ) question is wrong isnt it since it has had such dire consequences ?

in principle I agree with your distaste for the sectarianism

 

[acid rain]

@Irfan Baloch, @jaanbaaz,

Out of curiousity, are you sure the radicalization of your society started only during the Syria crisis or that you need to go back a few more decades?

There's nothing like Modi infection - to make u understand it - it is similar to the craze you Pakistanis had for Imran Khan or the craze the Americans had for Obama before his first tenure. Your radical mind doesnt allow you to see beyond a certain level.

As for blaming Jinna and the Muslim league - you need to listen to the desperate pleas of Maulana Abdul Kalam to the Muslims where he rightly projected the fate of Pakistan. These projections were derived from reason.

Ignore the last two paras because I dont expect you to come up with sound arguments on it. Please answer the question on the first para.

 

[Leader]

I dont follow Ahmedia faith so I cant comment on the said verse without knowing the background and its authenticity and relvance.

by the way asking that (faith ) question is wrong isnt it since it has had such dire consequences ?

in principle I agree with your distaste for the sectarianism

well its from one of their proponents on twitter, who is quite close to the Khalifa of Messiah...so I bet he wasnt making it up..

faiths are in clash with each other, if they think we are misguided by not following their faith, I have the right to inquire about what are the objectives of their religion/faith, I have every right to protect my faith from imposters, as they have to theirs..

 

[Dubious]

nice analogy

recall how the biggest hypocrite and conspirator against Muhammad PBUH known as Abu Sufyan became a Muslim
he recited

and that was that

do Ahmedis recite the same Kalima? if yes then they are Muslims... whatever they have added afterwords in their belief might make them bad Muslim but not Kafir in a classic and clear example as above

even the biggest hypocrite and conspirator Abdullah bin Abi was not declared a Kafir although he did his best to harm Muslims the most he could

Muhammad PBUH is Khatim' an Nabyyen so that pretty much rules out any follow up Nabi as far as Islam is concernd and since Muhammad PBUH completed the deen and brought Quran so its a done deal (as a precondition to being Nabi).

what I have learnt and seen over years is that we shout the loudest and decide ourselves what Ahemdi faith is and dont let them speak. and then we declare ourselves to be lovers of Muhammad PBUH which automatically gives us the right to persecute these people.

I am no one to declare anyone kafir....

All I am saying is dont adulterate Islam like the previous people had...there are tons of references in the Quran for this!

Plus Islam does not stop at saying La illaha illah hu Muhammadur Rasoollullah! If such were the criteria even terrorist who blow up innocents are Muslims (which is not the case as Quran clearly states to guard other's right) It also compromises belief / faith/ iman...None which any can judge but by how you speak about it and portray it!

If I believe in the Quran then how do I overlook what the Quran says about Muhammad?

I am not appointing anything to them that is why I ask...

do you see fallacy of the argument and misplaces boast? if Muhammad PBUH was alive he would have cringed with repulsion to see how much terror and hatred he have thrown on others in the name of

LOVE

for the holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH


and by the way.. all this debate is irrelevant..

what right does anyone have to make the life of another Pakistani a living hell? who has not done anything to him?


Taliban , LeJ, TTP, Al Qaeda ... brothers? because they are Muslims....

how rich,.

and then we lament why everyone mocks , hates and curses Islam in the world
(we will never find out will we?)

By taking my words out of context you are just attacking blindly! However, the words came from @Azlan Haider himself that the interpretation differs so I asked to show me...Then he brought in Linguistics so I asked him to show me...

Before blasting, I suggest you see how the talk went ...